Closure On HEMTT Rim Adapter Plate Project

[Ridgerunner]

How thick is the adapter plate, 3/8" or 1/2" ?

 

[rat4spd]

I have a fair number of parts built for the work I do, as a general rule of thumb having something machined or welded costs about $25 per operation, regardless of how you do it. Manual machining takes more time, but the time is cheaper. CNC, waterjet, laser, etc. takes less production time, but more setup / programming time, and the time on the machine is a lot more expensive. You don't get much of a price break until you are talking about 100's of parts, where you get into dedicated setups and tool and part changers.
I count about 35 operations (and at least 2 setups) on one of those plates so $220 a plate sounds like a deal to me....

But when it's a laser job, it's programmed once, for one plate, then as many plates pasted on a sheet of steel as possible. You'd still have the chamfering to do, but it would be a viable way to lessen costs in the future. You'd be hard pressed to get low costs on intial development of anything.

 

[pjpiche1]

In atankerdads and 100dollormans defence, I build this same wheel. I have been in the metal fab business for almost 30 years. 220-250 dollars for the plate is COST!!!! I know everyone here in this hobbie would love to find a cheaper way to mod. these wheels. We are all up for new options on this matter. So, unless you have designed and built your own adapters, you do not have the right to badmouth. There are those that "do". And, there are those that wish they could do. Those that wish, post what they think they can do with no facts to back it up. It is what it is! Stop wasting energy badmouthing and put some thought into finding a cheaper way! Please, try your idea yourself to see if it will work before posting a bunch of worthless treads. My hat is off to you 100dollarman and atankersdad! Job well done!

 

[jesusgatos]

In atankerdads and 100dollormans defence, I build this same wheel. I have been in the metal fab business for almost 30 years. 220-250 dollars for the plate is COST!!!! I know everyone here in this hobbie would love to find a cheaper way to mod. these wheels. We are all up for new options on this matter. So, unless you have designed and built your own adapters, you do not have the right to badmouth. There are those that "do". And, there are those that wish they could do. Those that wish, post what they think they can do with no facts to back it up. It is what it is! Stop wasting energy badmouthing and put some thought into finding a cheaper way! Please, try your idea yourself to see if it will work before posting a bunch of worthless treads. My hat is off to you 100dollarman and atankersdad! Job well done!

Who is badmouthing anyone?

 

[frodobaggins]

In atankerdads and 100dollormans defence, I build this same wheel. I have been in the metal fab business for almost 30 years. 220-250 dollars for the plate is COST!!!! I know everyone here in this hobbie would love to find a cheaper way to mod. these wheels. We are all up for new options on this matter. So, unless you have designed and built your own adapters, you do not have the right to badmouth. There are those that "do". And, there are those that wish they could do. Those that wish, post what they think they can do with no facts to back it up. It is what it is! Stop wasting energy badmouthing and put some thought into finding a cheaper way! Please, try your idea yourself to see if it will work before posting a bunch of worthless treads. My hat is off to you 100dollarman and atankersdad! Job well done!

Dude, go somewhere else with your attitude. We aren't badmouthing anyone here. I am sorry anyone got offended, but we are just having a little engineering discussion. I find it very sad that you can't have a discussion on these things without someone here getting their panties in a wad. If we are wrong on something, explain it. Don't whine about it.

Since some of you aren't capable of this, lets move this to my thread on this, out of respect for atankersdad. While I don't think anyone meant to upset him, this thread has gotten a little cluttered from it's intent.

GO here for more discussion on engineering another solution please:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-...enough-hemtt-rim-centers-adapters-thread.html


Sorry atankersdad for stirring up a *$%@storm.

Kevin

 

[FireFighterHill]

I dont think anyone is badmouthing exactly, more like brain storming on possible ways to lower production cost to make this a more attainable mod.

Theres no harm in suggestions on how to cut cost. But say it once and move on. Who knows, any of you machinist or CNC guys should contact Atankersdad, get the specs and see what price you can come up with. If you can make it cheaper, you got a new customer!

 

[jesusgatos]

Here's a link to some H1 wheel centers that Copperhead Fabrication makes. Smaller diameter wheels and thinner plate, but I hope it illustrates my point: which is just that these wheel centers can be made for less than $250ea. Making and selling aftermarket parts to off-road enthusiasts is a competitive business. I know a bit about it, and I'm only suggesting how these parts might be manufactured more efficiently. I'm not trying to undercut anyone and I'm not making/selling any wheels.

In fact, if anyone wants to send me some dimensions, I'll create a simple CAD file and then get a quote from the laser shop I use. I can also host CAD files over in our CAD Library (so that anyone can download it and have these adapter plates made locally).

 

[FireFighterHill]

Jesusgatos, sounds like now were on the right track. Instead of just saying you THINK it can made cheaper your willing to do a little research and work to find out for sure. Hopefully we can all work together make this a mod as popular as Jatonka's spin on adapters!

 

[pjpiche1]

A large number of the posts on this tread are negative. Every adapter that is being built, that I know of, is using state of the are tooling and processes. The laser does not cut to the tolerances they claim. The laser does remove a lot of material which saves time and tooling. But, it still has to be machined. Many of these posts are an insult to the builders intelligence. Like I said earlier, we are all looking for a better deal. If you come up with a better way, build it. Then, post it.

 

[rat4spd]

A large number of the posts on this tread are negative. Every adapter that is being built, that I know of, is using state of the are tooling and processes. The laser does not cut to the tolerances they claim. The laser does remove a lot of material which saves time and tooling. But, it still has to be machined. Many of these posts are an insult to the builders intelligence. Like I said earlier, we are all looking for a better deal. If you come up with a better way, build it. Then, post it.

What kind of precision are we talking here? Is .0006 to .0010 good enough with no Laser scale, on a multi axis machine? Come on, we're talking about a wheel center here, not parts for the space shuttle, but hats off to the OP for getting it done.

 

[pjpiche1]

I am not posting to irritate anyone. I ONLY HAVE 27 YEARS EXPERIANCE IN METAL FAB. I am SORRY for stating the facts. I am SORRY I posted something that you didn't want to hear. I am on this site to help. If you don't want my expertise, so be it! I HAVE CONVERTED HEMTT WHEELS. LOTS OF THEM. I don't need this tread. end of story.

 

[pjpiche1]

What kind of precision are we talking here? Is .0006 to .0010 good enough with no Laser scale, on a multi axis machine? Come on, we're talking about a wheel center here, not parts for the space shuttle, but hats off to the OP for getting it done.

For the most part, the laser cut has close enough tolerances to weld together. On this wheel adapter the tolerances are fine for the center and outside perimeter. The problem lies in the 16 stud holes and 6 lug holes. All cutting tools have a lead in point. I have seen some pieces with up to a 1/8" lead. Most are around 1/16". That causes mis-alignment in the studs if you can even get them in the holes. That is why the 16 holes have to be re-bored. Obviously, the lug hole has to be chaffered to a 50 degree angle.

was the space shuttle remark really necessary?

 

[frodobaggins]

*Sigh* It's not what you say, it's the way you say it. I invited you guys to finish this in my thread posted above, please do so. This thread is now useless.

Sorry atankersdad, again.

 

[pjpiche1]

Someone posted earlier about using thinner plate. The thinnest plate that will hold up to the deuces weight is 3/8". Rock crawlers use thinner plates. But, most of their units don't even weigh 1/3 of what a deuce does.

 

[jesusgatos]

Someone posted earlier about using thinner plate. The thinnest plate that will hold up to the deuces weight is 3/8". Rock crawlers use thinner plates. But, most of their units don't even weigh 1/3 of what a deuce does.

The stock wheels have pressed centers though. MUCH stronger than flat plate.

 

[SuperJoe]

i will try to make them if i had some of the wheels that you are using. the wheels i found are the budd wheels with the ten hole. i am making plates for these as we speak. and jigs to ensure concentric and ease of repeatability. some have told me its a 5 ton single wheel and some have said its a hemtt wheel. i dont know and there is so much info in this sight searching is pitiful on my end due to lack of info on what i have and what i want. in the end i want a great product with no runnout for free. in reality i will get a product that is premade by someone else to their spec and be far from free. if i can meet in the middle then its ok to me. does anyone know where i can get these bolt together type wheels locally in the phx area?

i do like the product that was made here and thank you for taking your time and money to do so.

 

[StrykerPez]

I can't imagine the balance of the plate being that critical. The big tires you would be running would be at least a few ounces out of balance anyway. If you can get a 48" tire to dynamic balance within .5 ounce you're the God of tires.

 

[jesusgatos]

I can't imagine the balance of the plate being that critical. The big tires you would be running would be at least a few ounces out of balance anyway. If you can get a 48" tire to dynamic balance within .5 ounce you're the God of tires.

I think what's more important is the location of the wheel-stud holes, relative to one another. If those are off, lugnuts aren't going to stay tight. But that's the thing, by whatever process these are made, assuming it's automated, I don't think holding acceptable tolerances should be much of a problem.

 

[DUG]

was the space shuttle remark really necessary?

Um, I think he used that "remark" to try and illustrate a point. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I read it. Rat4Spd may be a butter bar Army Officer, but "back in the day" he was a highly trained nuke machinist mate on a sub. Very small pool of people are smart enough to pull that off. I think that qualifys him to give an opinion on tolerances.

 

[powerhouseduece]

Ok, well since I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night I think I'm ready to build a set of rims too....

People were offering the rims with the adapter already on them for $275-400 and no one made comments about that. Most of the people that got a lot of them only paid $50-60 a rim if that. So even if you paid $200 for a plate you still just saved money.

My question is how much did everyone pay for OD Iron wheels? Then add the shipping to that and you still come out on top. Its cheaper to ship the plates instead of the whole rim finished wheel.

So I'm going to agree with daniel and dudley, if you can make them cheaper and same quality then knock yourself out!