Cold starting A1R

[aw113sgte]

First winter with an A1R and also a diesel. Started it today in 10f and it was not very happy. Had to crank several times(was letting off same as I would in warm temps- when I hear it ignite). Then held starter for a few seconds after catching to keep it running since previous method didn't work. Lots of black smoke for a few seconds then white smoke. No engine preheat used from block heater. Sounded like marbles in the cylinders for about 10 seconds.
This is with the ether system in working order. I wish there was a way to disable it as what if cylinder is empty? The grid heater won't turn on if it decides ether is needed (at least until after running) Any ideas if you can change this setting? I have looked in cat ET and found nothing. I really want to avoid tricking sensors to avoid ether. I assume a ton of cat c7 school busses don't have ether and start just fine in far colder temps.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

If you would rather you could use something like this to control the grid heater and disconnect or manually control the ether:

SwapHelper.com Grid Heater Controller | swaphelper

The SwapHelper.com Grid Heater Controller brings OEM style grid heater operation to your swap truck or other application! Designed for '89 - '02 Cummins (can also be used on 12 volt 6BT's, 4BT's, ISB's and Common Rails if desired), the controller uses the factory Cummins/Dodge IAT sensor and...

www.swaphelper.com

 

[aw113sgte]

If you would rather you could use something like this to control the grid heater and disconnect or manually control the ether:

SwapHelper.com Grid Heater Controller | swaphelper

The SwapHelper.com Grid Heater Controller brings OEM style grid heater operation to your swap truck or other application! Designed for '89 - '02 Cummins (can also be used on 12 volt 6BT's, 4BT's, ISB's and Common Rails if desired), the controller uses the factory Cummins/Dodge IAT sensor and...

www.swaphelper.com

My worry is the ECM programming is expecting ether or grid heater and I would imagine the engine start parameters are fairly different. Manual control is a fairly easy part of it.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

My worry is the ECM programming is expecting ether or grid heater and I would imagine the engine start parameters are fairly different. Manual control is a fairly easy part of it.

It has to cope with an empty bottle so I wouldn't worry about it. Ether is just an alternate fuel source and the black smoke means it's got plenty of fuel - I wouldn't worry about it.

There's no way to change the operating parameters that I'm aware of in software since having the grid heater operate on top of the ether could blow the intake manifold off the truck. So from a liability and safety standpoint those settings are not available to CAT ET.

I wouldn't personally mess with it. It works as is. If you are concerned about the cold starting then block heater and/or diesel pre-heater is your answer.

 

[hike]

It has to cope with an empty bottle so I wouldn't worry about it. Ether is just an alternate fuel source and the black smoke means it's got plenty of fuel - I wouldn't worry about it.

There's no way to change the operating parameters that I'm aware of in software since having the grid heater operate on top of the ether could blow the intake manifold off the truck. So from a liability and safety standpoint those settings are not available to CAT ET.

I wouldn't personally mess with it. It works as is. If you are concerned about the cold starting then block heater and/or diesel pre-heater is your answer.

I agree with @GeneralDisorder, if you are concerned, block heater. We owned CAT equipment years ago and ran all through moderate winters with a spray can of ether. Black smoke and 'marbles' each morning up and down the line. Just leave at idle until 'marbles' pass. You'll be waiting for air to come up anyway.

Here is a video of various CAT tractors starting up, some have been running a few more years then our units—

 

[Suprman]

The grid heater solenoid is a common failure. Are you sure the heater is actually coming on

 

[aw113sgte]

The grid heater solenoid is a common failure. Are you sure the heater is actually coming on

I can see it pulling a lot of current when it turns on so pretty sure it's functioning as intended.

 

[aw113sgte]

I agree with @GeneralDisorder, if you are concerned, block heater. We owned CAT equipment years ago and ran all through moderate winters with a spray can of ether. Black smoke and 'marbles' each morning up and down the line. Just leave at idle until 'marbles' pass. You'll be waiting for air to come up anyway.

Here is a video of various CAT tractors starting up, some have been running a few more years then our units—

Well that's good to hear my experience sounds about the same.

 

[aw113sgte]

Found this video, C7 start is about the same as mine (not great).

Mine is just like the one at 5:30

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Found this video, C7 start is about the same as mine (not great).

Mine is just like the one at 5:30

Very typical. But these start WAY better than the HMMWV's - check out same guy's video on that mess:

And if the glow plugs don't work (blown up from repeatedly cycling when someone left the switch on or controller failed - common) good luck. You might as well wait till summer comes.

 

[militarypartssurplus]

I have a 3116 I can’t find the grid heater solenoid, please help!

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I have a 3116 I can’t find the grid heater solenoid, please help!

3116's don't have grid heaters.

 

[militarypartssurplus]

Very typical. But these start WAY better than the HMMWV's - check out same guy's video on that mess:

And if the glow plugs don't work (blown up from repeatedly cycling when someone left the switch on or controller failed - common) good luck. You might as well wait till summer comes.

I have a 3116 I can’t find the grid heater solenoid, please help!

im sorry 3126

 

[Ronmar]

im sorry 3126

Its on the drivers side rear of the cylinder head.

 

[Ronmar]

Very typical. But these start WAY better than the HMMWV's - check out same guy's video on that mess:

And if the glow plugs don't work (blown up from repeatedly cycling when someone left the switch on or controller failed - common) good luck. You might as well wait till summer comes.

Naw, you take a pan put some diesel and a little gas in it, light it and slide it under the engine. It either warms the engine enough to start, or the whole thing catches fire and burns to the rims… Either way your problem is solved

Havn't been to Drum in a long time. Was stationed at Seneca once upon a long time ago…

 

[87cr250r]

The rattle and bang is fine. Think of it as some cylinders running near full power to make up for the ones that aren't. It should be ok for cylinders to run at full power. That HMMWV was a bit hard to watch. The 6.2/6.5 engines want the pedal held to 50% for temperatures under 50° (or somewhere nearby) during starting. The videographer appeared to do no such thing.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

These engines run on straight explosions and anger. What would kill a gasoline engine (detonation) is exactly what the diesel engine exploits for it's operation. They are supremely strong on the bottom end and as long as you allow them to properly warm up before putting them under a huge load you'll be fine.

I would be much more worried about the engine oil pump on the 3126 and the C7 at these low temps. They have idler gear bushing issues. It's on my list of things to do. @Lostchain had to replace the oil pump on his 2003 at around 6k miles. His idler gear was starting to get sloppy and his low oil pressure warning would come on when the engine got really working in the summer. Replacement pump doubled his oil pressure. This is a known issue but shows up faster on these trucks due to the engine running at near redline just to keep up with traffic (without ECO hubs).

 

[87cr250r]

I use cylinder cutout tests to diagnose engines. I'll run 12 and 16 cylinder CAT engines on 3 cylinders. These cylinders run near torque limits and they bang like a cold start engine. It's not a problem. Just imagine the cylinders are making the same sounds they would at full power but are drowned out by the racket of the adjacent cylinders.

When you cold start a diesel or makes lots of noise and smoke because it isn't running on all cylinders and the ones that are running do all of the work like a cylinder cutout test.

 

[aw113sgte]

These engines run on straight explosions and anger. What would kill a gasoline engine (detonation) is exactly what the diesel engine exploits for it's operation. They are supremely strong on the bottom end and as long as you allow them to properly warm up before putting them under a huge load you'll be fine.

I would be much more worried about the engine oil pump on the 3126 and the C7 at these low temps. They have idler gear bushing issues. It's on my list of things to do. @Lostchain had to replace the oil pump on his 2003 at around 6k miles. His idler gear was starting to get sloppy and his low oil pressure warning would come on when the engine got really working in the summer. Replacement pump doubled his oil pressure. This is a known issue but shows up faster on these trucks due to the engine running at near redline just to keep up with traffic (without ECO hubs).

Great, another item to add to the list. Well, at least I got C6 clutch bearing replaced.