Colorado Bill SB19-054 RE: (Former) Military Vehicle Motor Vehicle Regulation

jrtoffroad

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Any updates on this? I didn't see mention of SB 20 - 115 which should ALLOW a military vehicle to be titled for on-road use IF it is to be used for farm purposes. If you haven't seen it: Register Surplus Military Vehicle As Farm Vehicle | Colorado General Assembly

Not sure if that helps anyone here. But it just might.

One other thought, what would it take to get a military vehicle assigned a new 17-digit VIN in CO?
From a quick google search for the related forms.
DR2709.pdf (colorado.gov)
DR 2408 (colorado.gov)

Seems doable, not sure if our rigs would qualify or not...
 
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SgtMajHarper

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Any updates on this? I didn't see mention of SB 20 - 115 which should ALLOW a military vehicle to be titled for on-road use IF it is to be used for farm purposes. If you haven't seen it: Register Surplus Military Vehicle As Farm Vehicle | Colorado General Assembly

Not sure if that helps anyone here. But it just might.

One other thought, what would it take to get a military vehicle assigned a new 17-digit VIN in CO?
From a quick google search for the related forms.
DR2709.pdf (colorado.gov)
DR 2408 (colorado.gov)

Seems doable, not sure if our rigs would qualify or not...
The legislature from what I was told was working under dire circumstances this session due to the "Chi-Com Flu" restrictions, they were only going to deal with "emergency situations and health related stuff" to take care of us all with social distance, remote working, etc. The very first thing they did when in session was to pass bills restricting oil development in the state and other environmental stuff ....... so they passed some more gun restrictions, no plastic bags when you go to the store, no styrofoam containers for take out food, school resource officers can't investigate crimes on school grounds or interview kids, can't arrest anyone except for very very serious crimes, no bail required for up to class 3 felonies, you can possess twice as much pot for personal use as before........you get the idea.......they completely bailed on any legislation dealing with our licensing issue.

As far as state assigned VIN's, you can't get a new VIN issued for our historic military vehicles, you can for a homemade trailer, a re-built totaled out wrecked car ( with lots of hoop jumping, bonded titles, etc.), a stolen car recovered by LE and maybe the original VIN plate was popped off........the only way it helps us is if you have a surplus trailer with no VIN you can "home-make" it by working on it, "making it" and then get a VIN and plates, not so with motorized vehicles.
 

Wolffrag86

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would be cool if someone could find a way to send in your sf97 or other paperwork to AM general , oshkosh, etc. and get paperwork/tag (steel display to rivet in) with 17 digit vin, stating civillian vehicle.
 
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USAFSS-ColdWarrior

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would be cool if someone could find a way to send in your sf97 or other paperwork to AM general , oshkosh, etc. and get paperwork/tag (steel display to rivet in) with 17 digit vin, stating civillian vehicle.
That would be like going to court to get your name changed.

VIN's are a Cradle-to-Grave proposition.... NO changes by the manufacturer.
 

Wolffrag86

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That would be like going to court to get your name changed.

VIN's are a Cradle-to-Grave proposition.... NO changes by the manufacturer.
interesting, since these vehicles have ( serial numbers ),that dont register in dmv systems, and not real vehicle identification numbers, would this not be more like giving a birth name vs changing... dunno. This law is stupid, hopefully it changes soon.
 

Mullaney

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interesting, since these vehicles have ( serial numbers ),that dont register in dmv systems, and not real vehicle identification numbers, would this not be more like giving a birth name vs changing... dunno. This law is stupid, hopefully it changes soon.
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With 50 states and 50 opinions (conservatively) - Some of us aren't going to be really helpful outside of Colorado.
On the other hand, I do have to say that North Carolina uses the VIN on the frame and it gets "padded" with zeros to "fit their form" requirements on the title.
 

tommys2patrick

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Having been to the DMV in colorado and asking fairly detailed questions as well as following the various bills in our congress, it seems apparent that the big problem is our state director of revenue. She has taken it upon herself to re-interpret the laws that was passed and decided it means no ex-military vehicle can be titled for on road use, period. with an exception of governmental authorized use. which seems rather like "I can and will do whatever I want regardless". She notified the local DMV offices of her interpretation as well as stated she will issue recalls on all existing on road titles to be reissued as off road only. Kind of reminds me of a time in a german speaking country when we went to war over such thoughts. No disrespect to our german friends intended. I got similar responses as others when contacting offices of our legislatures. basically they apparently have bigger fish to fry and choose not to take up any serious action at this time, except posturing and making empty talk. Just an old man who's frustrated and tired of this nonsense so I apolgize for my negative outlook in this matter. However, the 17 digit vin thing is not a key factor in this issue. these titles are issued based on the vehicle type and original manufacture puprose. that type stays with the vehicle unless it is cut up for scrap or has had a major alteration done that no longer deems it ex military in nature.
 

Mullaney

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Having been to the DMV in colorado and asking fairly detailed questions as well as following the various bills in our congress, it seems apparent that the big problem is our state director of revenue. She has taken it upon herself to re-interpret the laws that was passed and decided it means no ex-military vehicle can be titled for on road use, period. with an exception of governmental authorized use. which seems rather like "I can and will do whatever I want regardless". She notified the local DMV offices of her interpretation as well as stated she will issue recalls on all existing on road titles to be reissued as off road only. Kind of reminds me of a time in a german speaking country when we went to war over such thoughts. No disrespect to our german friends intended. I got similar responses as others when contacting offices of our legislatures. basically they apparently have bigger fish to fry and choose not to take up any serious action at this time, except posturing and making empty talk. Just an old man who's frustrated and tired of this nonsense so I apolgize for my negative outlook in this matter. However, the 17 digit vin thing is not a key factor in this issue. these titles are issued based on the vehicle type and original manufacture puprose. that type stays with the vehicle unless it is cut up for scrap or has had a major alteration done that no longer deems it ex military in nature.
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Sad but it sure seems to be a good description of the problem.
This problem is a lot like judges that make up the rules as they go.

You would think that the state MV associations would push back - but they only have so much money to fight for something that doesn't affect enough people. Chances are we won't ever see a breaking news story about our government stealing from its citizens either.
 

tommys2patrick

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Wolffrag86--other than having the petition only exist in cyberspace, is there an option to forward it to the legislature in colorado as well as the director of the colorado department of revenue?
 

Wolffrag86

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Wolffrag86--other than having the petition only exist in cyberspace, is there an option to forward it to the legislature in colorado as well as the director of the colorado department of revenue?
again im not completely sure, its supposed to be sent to senator larry crowder, and representative donald valdez. Id imagine after signatures people could email the link to local news and other officials to add impact, probably a long shot... but who knows
 

Mullaney

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again im not completely sure, its supposed to be sent to senator larry crowder, and representative donald valdez. Id imagine after signatures people could email the link to local news and other officials to add impact, probably a long shot... but who knows
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Sad part is that the Senators from the great state of Colorado won't give a flip what old Tim Mullaney in Charlotte North Carolina thinks about the MV titling theft rules in their state... As screwy as it is Divide And Conquer works really well.
 

jrtoffroad

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again im not completely sure, its supposed to be sent to senator larry crowder, and representative donald valdez. Id imagine after signatures people could email the link to local news and other officials to add impact, probably a long shot... but who knows
Unless I'm missing something, Mr. Crowder is no longer a CO legislator. I actually sent an email to Mr. Valdez on this subject a couple months back, but never received a response (which is about what I expected).
 

jrtoffroad

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Yea, if everyone sends a filled petition to their representatives, and local news sources. I wonder what two farm boys from alamosa had to gain from spearheading this bill. Did they squash the farm use or not? https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb20-115
I thought that Bill might provide a nice loophole, but it looks like it "Lost". Probably not worth pushing on that one since it doesn't provide the type of use that many of us would like.

SgtMajHarper is probably correct in his response to my comments earlier in this thread (where he states that it won't work), but my plan is still to try and pursue gaining a new VIN for my HMMWV. I am buying a non-running vehicle to begin with, so my approach will be to repair and modify the vehicle to meet safety and emissions standards. I will take pictures and keep records as required for the CO VIN Assignment Process. I'll let you know how it goes for me. You are allowed to obtain a new VIN for a rebuilt and home built/kit vehicles, so I'm optimistic.
 

Wolffrag86

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I thought that Bill might provide a nice loophole, but it looks like it "Lost". Probably not worth pushing on that one since it doesn't provide the type of use that many of us would like.

SgtMajHarper is probably correct in his response to my comments earlier in this thread (where he states that it won't work), but my plan is still to try and pursue gaining a new VIN for my HMMWV. I am buying a non-running vehicle to begin with, so my approach will be to repair and modify the vehicle to meet safety and emissions standards. I will take pictures and keep records as required for the CO VIN Assignment Process. I'll let you know how it goes for me. You are allowed to obtain a new VIN for a rebuilt and home built/kit vehicles, so I'm optimistic.
sounds cool, cant wait to see how it goes. I brought up the farm use, because it seemed suspicious two farmer legislators would ban MV's on road except for farm use.
 

jrtoffroad

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Colorado Springs, CO USA
Well, CO just denied my attempt to get a 17 digit VIN and title assigned to my HMMWV. Even though there is no rule I can find saying they won't assign a VIN to a MV (or off-higway vehicle for that matter).

The State Patrol had no problem inspecting it and the DMV took my paperwork and $ of course, but they responded that I need to go to the Parks and Recreation Department since it's an off-road vehicle.

Not sure what I'm going to try and do next. I think this is nuts. It's just a freaking car. It's got all lights, mirrors, 3-pt seat belts, has a catalytic converter etc, etc. It doesn't have armor, guns or tracks... I probably should have painted it pink and tried to make it look as non-military as possible before going to the DMV.

Sorry for the rant. Just frustrated. I know CO is only one of many states that has a problem with MV's, but it's the state I'm in so it's the one I have the biggest problem with.
 
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