CTIS pressure settings increase - no programming, transducer, or module required.

[Ronmar]

This issue only occured at the increase of pressure to 80+psi with CTIS. At 50ish it wasn't doing it. When in stable state (not bleeding out qrv) all tires hold pressure (after rebuild on 2 that were leaking). Seems like a wheel valve(or two) aren't closing well (aire flow out it pretty fast till about 50 psi)

I wonder if the non rebuilt valves could be causing the issue? They have slight leaks from corrosion but the one of the tires that is loosing pressure if the rebuilt one and it has no bubbles now.

Well the rubber glove test isolates it to just the one wheel valve, and you can add air to the wheel using an air chuck at the wheel schrader valve to see if it is having trouble sealing at higher pressures…

but in the end, the vented air must come from a tire thru that wheel valve…

 

[aw113sgte]

Well the rubber glove test isolates it to just the one wheel valve, and you can add air to the wheel using an air chuck at the wheel schrader valve to see if it is having trouble sealing at higher pressures…

but in the end, the vented air must come from a tire thru that wheel valve…

I'm betting there is just enough of a restriction (most likely wheel valve filter) to keep the valve open. There was some oil in the system so I wouldn't be surprised if those filters lowered their flow a little.

 

[hike]

Please clarify your question.
There are 3 1911 wires in my truck, I had to cut them check since they are all connected. I have the "first gen" of the black controller, that I got off eBay.

My mistake. You stated earlier that you "disconnected the M wire only". So which are providing power at the ECU now?

 

[aw113sgte]

My mistake. You stated earlier that you "disconnected the M wire only". So which are providing power at the ECU now?

Z and H have power now (was originally Z, M, and H

 

[Ronmar]

I'm betting there is just enough of a restriction (most likely wheel valve filter) to keep the valve open. There was some oil in the system so I wouldn't be surprised if those filters lowered their flow a little.

The filters are on the tire side of the wheel valve, so restriction there would only effect the speed at which the tire inflates or deflates, not valve operation.

any restriction would have to be on the truck side of the wheel valve to effect valve operation. Air comes in from the truck and pushes against the inside of the diaphragm. There is a spring and atmospheric pressure on the outside face of the diaphragm, and it takes ~5PSI to overcome this and lift the diaphragm off of the center port of the inner housing that goes to the filter and on to the tire.

when the truck side pressure drops below 5PSI, the diaphragm should seal the center port. If something on the truck side was restricting flow and not letting the pressure drop fast enough when the PCU vents to zero, the air still coming from the tire will keep the pressure on the diaphragm high enough to hold it open and the flow out of the tire will hold the valve open.

 

[aw113sgte]

Thanks Ronmar, after I took it off I realized it was on the other side...brain fart. Rebuilt the wheel valve and it was a bit crusty and the stainless orifice looked like it had been overtightened as the hex was a little rounded and had burrs. Just refilled the tire and it didn't push any out the quick release this time. A little early to claim success though, still have 3 more CTIS valves to rebuild.

 

[billyoffshore]

Not really, no. You can find the Dana controllers brand new for like $600 to $700. And used one's are $100 to $200 and will continue to land on the surplus market for decades in both new and used form. With the free software, an RP1210 adapter that you should probably have anyway if you have an A1+ truck, and a $100 laptop you can program them and diagnose with them.

How many of the Arduino units have been created? A few hundred maybe? The Dana unit has been built in the millions of units. Between military and industrial applications. spares, and 30 years of manufacturing. MILLIONS of them.

New:

CTIS Tire Pressure Control Mrap M939 FMTV LMTV 676422 6110-01-268-8739 | eBay

For sale is a New Dana Spicer/International CTIS system. The part number is 676422. The NSN number is 6110-01-268-8739 Here are the specs HUES Color Black.

www.ebay.com

Used:

m939a2 ctis controller m923a2 m936a2 m939 m923 m934a2 m931a2 | eBay

The colors will be green. Buttons will have wear and tear and will be faded from age. We also have other take off CTIS Parts and have any 5 ton Parts you may need for your m939. We are solely focused on 5 tons let us know where we can help you- Jim 5076762972.

www.ebay.com

CTIS Control Panel Pneumatic Tire Inflation Spicer Dana 1mvz1-673990 | eBay

CTIS Control Panel Pneumatic Tire Inflation Spicer Dana 1mvz1-673990 . Condition is Used. Shipped with UPS Ground.

www.ebay.com

There's TONS of them on the market. Too many for them to command a huge price.

I think the Arduino unit is like $400? Not sure on that. But you definitely can't buy two of them for half the price of the Dana/Spicer/Eaton units.

Good Evening General Disorder;
I just purchased the "New" of the controller selection you had posted here, his price went down a bit, and it popped up on my "watch list". ($558.00)
#676422. We own an M1078A1 2003 Truck. Looks like we are going to have the "Standard ProFile" that you had mentioned:

("H and M is the standard 4x4 power profile. My M1079 A1R is the same. It will put most of these units into 55 psi HWY mode as in my pictures")

It is marked on the box; "SUPPLIER 16V". I am guessing it has nothing to do with the 24V being on pin #M or Pin #Z ?
We would plan on giving it a simple Pressure Profile, to fit our needs, like you mentioned.
80 on the Highway I would think though.
We are planning a "Composite Box Installation" for the Truck.
Your Post here has a been a Big Help. Thanks for this.
Also, Do you have the link available for the DANA Software UP-Load in a post here ?
Hope all is well.

B & L

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Good Evening General Disorder;
I just purchased the "New" of the controller selection you had posted here, his price went down a bit, and it popped up on my "watch list". ($558.00)
#676422. We own an M1078A1 2003 Truck. Looks like we are going to have the "Standard ProFile" that you had mentioned:

("H and M is the standard 4x4 power profile. My M1079 A1R is the same. It will put most of these units into 55 psi HWY mode as in my pictures")

It is marked on the box; "SUPPLIER 16V". I am guessing it has nothing to do with the 24V being on pin #M or Pin #Z ?
We would plan on giving it a simple Pressure Profile, to fit our needs, like you mentioned.
80 on the Highway I would think though.
We are planning a "Composite Box Installation" for the Truck.
Your Post here has a been a Big Help. Thanks for this.
Also, Do you have the link available for the DANA Software UP-Load in a post here ?
Hope all is well.

B & L

All of the CTIS boxes are 24 VDC - indeed the M939 has only 24 VDC systems so I'm not sure what SUPPLIER 16V is in reference to exactly. Nothing important I would say.

I have the software on my google drive because no one can seem to find the Dana download for it anymore. It's only 8 Mb:

Dana_Diagnostic_Tool_Setup(2.4.2).exe

drive.google.com

 

[Lostchain]

I have the software on my google drive because no one can seem to find the Dana download for it anymore.

From Dana:

https://dml.dana.com/assetbank-dana/assetfile/7980.zip

 

[coachgeo]

All of the CTIS boxes are 24 VDC - indeed the M939 has only 24 VDC systems so I'm not sure what SUPPLIER 16V is in reference to exactly. Nothing important I would say.

I have the software on my google drive because no one can seem to find the Dana download for it anymore. It's only 8 Mb:

Dana_Diagnostic_Tool_Setup(2.4.2).exe

drive.google.com

software windows ver. 7 orr??? (myself am on Linux though have old tablet with Win 10)

 

[aw113sgte]

software windows ver. 7 orr??? (myself am on Linux though have old tablet with Win 10)

I'm running just fine on a win10 systems using this converter. https://www.usconverters.com/usb-serial-adapter-xs880
Works great.

 

[billyoffshore]

I don't know for sure: I gleen from several sources, including @Ronmar and @GeneralDisorder, these pieces:
1— CAT 3116 lacks electronic controls and data the CAT 3126 and CAT C7 engines have;
2— units with CAT 3116 use analog pulse per mile (PPM) speed signal, while CAT3126 and CAT C7 use a digital speed signal;
A— older (green) CTIS ECU's do not support J1939 scanning and reprogramming;
B— wiring harnesses in A0, A1, and A1R units are similar, though not the same, (and may have changes between early A1 and later A1 units, especially);
C— wiring harnesses for different M units (939, 1078, 1085, etcetera) are similar, though not the same, (wrecker is different from troop carrier, etcetera);
D— later (black) ECU units may have (9?) different programs pre programmed for each wiring harness variant.

This suggests learning the different inputs to the newer ECU's from each unit could offer a way to wire switching to use the different programs in any vehicle without reprogramming; though A0 units would need a separate fix to solve the overspeed issue in any case.

Connection to CTIS ECU in our 2003 M1078
View attachment 906824—

H and M provide power, F is ground, to our ECU labeled for an M939A2, resulting in a program providing 55psi when the HWY mode is selected. Looking at the schematic for the M939A2 suggests providing another combination of power and ground on F, H, V, X, and/or Z, suggests a program providing 70psi and 80psi may be available.

View attachment 906825

Hopefully, we will learn from those who know more and share what we learn as we try switching up the power and ground sources our selves—

Good Evening; I just wanted to post an interesting update that occurred here, to our 2003 M1078A1 Truck (Like yours), when I "just" did the installation of the "New" / M939 Box obtained from eBay today. We were aware that the box would have the "Name Tags upside Down" as far as the Driver/s Position relative to the M939 Box when it is mounted in the LMTV. Not a Big Deal actually, and I do have the "New" Labeling Kit purchased a while back, that would correct that too. The New CTIS Box is Flawless / New / Mint / Perfect condition for sure. BUT, I did have an interesting issue pop up, right after installation.
After a cycle or two, of running the New CTIS ECU, (Which was working well actually), The "Resister" on the J1939 Connector, (R-12 in the A1 Wiring Schematic for the ABS System (P204 Harness located about at/ near the Fuel Filter area), Burnt Completely off. (that harness has the J1939 DATA harness with wires "P204B / P204A / and P204C ". Also, the CTIS Breaker (10amp), Released open, in the PDP. ABS Light is "ON" on the Dash Display now too.
The BIG Question is: Was the New CTIS ECU, sending voltage down the J1939 DATA Lines due to a clash in the (+) and (-) or (S) during a "certain cycle of operation? Or, just a coincidence, and that Resister (R-12 in the Schematic) location (Which is Very Wet location Actually, straight below the back of the truck cab, next to the Fuel Filter), decided it was time to smoke / be grounded / burn up? Just interesting I thought. Hopefully, nothing else was damaged. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks......

 

[billyoffshore]

All of the CTIS boxes are 24 VDC - indeed the M939 has only 24 VDC systems so I'm not sure what SUPPLIER 16V is in reference to exactly. Nothing important I would say.

I have the software on my google drive because no one can seem to find the Dana download for it anymore. It's only 8 Mb:

Dana_Diagnostic_Tool_Setup(2.4.2).exe

drive.google.com

Good Evening; I just wanted to post an interesting update that occurred here, to our 2003 M1078A1 Truck (Like yours), when I "just" did the installation of the "New" / M939 Box obtained from eBay today. We were aware that the box would have the "Name Tags upside Down" as far as the Driver/s Position relative to the M939 Box when it is mounted in the LMTV. Not a Big Deal actually, and I do have the "New" Labeling Kit purchased a while back, that would correct that too. The New CTIS Box is Flawless / New / Mint / Perfect condition for sure. BUT, I did have an interesting issue pop up, right after installation.
After a cycle or two, of running the New CTIS ECU, (Which was working well actually), The "Resister" on the J1939 Connector, (R-12 in the A1 Wiring Schematic for the ABS System (P204 Harness located about at/ near the Fuel Filter area), Burnt Completely off. (that harness has the J1939 DATA harness with wires "P204B / P204A / and P204C ". Also, the CTIS Breaker (10amp), Released open, in the PDP. ABS Light is "ON" on the Dash Display now too.
The BIG Question is: Was the New CTIS ECU, sending voltage down the J1939 DATA Lines due to a clash in the (+) and (-) or (S) during a "certain cycle of operation? Or, just a coincidence, and that Resister (R-12 in the Schematic) location (Which is Very Wet location Actually, straight below the back of the truck cab, next to the Fuel Filter), decided it was time to smoke / be grounded / burn up? Just interesting I thought. Hopefully, nothing else was damaged. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks......

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Another member here reported a similar issue with his truck - burnt up resistors on the J1939..... I can't give an explanation of why. He replaced it and his data bus worked fine.

There is only two wiring diagrams for the flange mount unit in the troubleshooting guide and both use the same pins for the data bus connections:

https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/WQ86BTpCnbQ52SaSq/axts-0015.pdf?store=original

In fact the wiring is identical except for an optional front/rear control solenoid and notes about the databus connections being connected to an optional breakout harness (trucks that don't have the integrated databus). But the pinout as regards the databus should be the same.

The ABS light is likely because of the databus resistor - the other member reported that also.

I would definitely be checking the wiring carefully and trying to find a cause. That is very odd.

 

[hike]

Another member here reported a similar issue with his truck - burnt up resistors on the J1939..... I can't give an explanation of why. He replaced it and his data bus worked fine.

There is only two wiring diagrams for the flange mount unit in the troubleshooting guide and both use the same pins for the data bus connections:

https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/WQ86BTpCnbQ52SaSq/axts-0015.pdf?store=original

In fact the wiring is identical except for an optional front/rear control solenoid and notes about the databus connections being connected to an optional breakout harness (trucks that don't have the integrated databus). But the pinout as regards the databus should be the same.

The ABS light is likely because of the databus resistor - the other member reported that also.

I would definitely be checking the wiring carefully and trying to find a cause. That is very odd.

In our case replacing R12 and R13 (under the PDP on P250) resolved our ABS and J1939 faults. When we purchased our unit no circuit breaker was in the ABS fault light slot. Adding one brought the light on. Attempting to use the the diagnostic plug to read the ABS faults led use to the resistors when we discovered J1939 unable to connect.

Since relacing the resistors we have used a new CTIS and Arduino CTIS ECUs. So, it was not related to adding a new CTIS ECU.

Here is the resolve from that thread:

Maybe. The light was off until we replaced the ABS light circuit breaker which had been removed. Since installing a new circuit breaker light has been on. The DPA III+ has been finding faults with voltage or open circuit on ABS while all other ECU's reported. Replacing R12 and R13 (both burned up) has:

1— turned the dash ABS light OFF;
2— returned resistance between 'C' and 'D' at Deutsch plug to 60 ohms;
3— changed the voltage at 'C' to 2.671v and 'D' to 2.571v, ('D' should be below 2.5v);
4— opened J1939 comms;
5— stopped ABS faults.

We plugged in our DPA III+ and now both J1939 and J1708/1587 connect, No faults reported.

Hopefully all we had was two burned up resistors, though why?
I think I'll button her up in the morning and take her out for a drive, hoping the 15 hundredths of a volt over isn't going to burn something up—

So far, it appears everything is working fine. Hopefully your fix will be as straight forward—

 

[billyoffshore]

In our case replacing R12 and R13 (under the PDP on P250) resolved our ABS and J1939 faults. When we purchased our unit no circuit breaker was in the ABS fault light slot. Adding one brought the light on. Attempting to use the the diagnostic plug to read the ABS faults led use to the resistors when we discovered J1939 unable to connect.

Since relacing the resistors we have used a new CTIS and Arduino CTIS ECUs. So, it was not related to adding a new CTIS ECU.

Here is the resolve from that thread:


So far, it appears everything is working fine. Hopefully your fix will be as straight forward—

Thanks Hike.....I will check the other Resister on P250 for sure. Was the CTIS Unit you used, the M939 (eBay) unit that was discussed here earlier on? I do plan to do a Detailed Trace of that CAN Buss Line. Just curious to see if I find a "Pinch" or a cut. I will update here for sure.

 

[hike]

View attachment 906757

On our M1078A1 with power and 'H' and 'M' highway pressure is 55#–

 

[billyoffshore]

On our M1078A1 with power and 'H' and 'M' highway pressure is 55#–

Gotcha.....and we just received the same unit here. I hope to continue with this post and come up with the Applied wiring, to give us that 80psi. via Pre Programing.....
Or.....Just do the software change with the DANA Program, and have the 80 for Highway. We just got our New Tires.....and that should keep me busy for a week ......at least !

 

[billyoffshore]

Another member here reported a similar issue with his truck - burnt up resistors on the J1939..... I can't give an explanation of why. He replaced it and his data bus worked fine.

There is only two wiring diagrams for the flange mount unit in the troubleshooting guide and both use the same pins for the data bus connections:

https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/WQ86BTpCnbQ52SaSq/axts-0015.pdf?store=original

In fact the wiring is identical except for an optional front/rear control solenoid and notes about the databus connections being connected to an optional breakout harness (trucks that don't have the integrated databus). But the pinout as regards the databus should be the same.

The ABS light is likely because of the databus resistor - the other member reported that also.

I would definitely be checking the wiring carefully and trying to find a cause. That is very odd.

Well, a bit of an update for you.....("the plot thickens").....I replaced "both" of the resisters on the J1939 CAN Line. (The one that was burnt badly....AND the one at the other end, under the PDP "smelled burnt" and also tested bad on the DMM. I bought New "DEUTSCH" supplies. (buydeutsch.com). Found some interesting issues with that J1939 Cable. It had some "original installer issues" with the foil and "strands" (the shielding) possibly in contact with the Yellow wire. Yellow wire had slight cuts, from the original installation / stripping of outer case. I also found that both the Green and Yellow wiring is "very dry and cracked" even when cutting back a bit into the outer case. ALL Not Good. I was able to carefully install ALL New Deutsch Supplies, and get a a Proper reading on the DMM. (60 ohm). Here is where is gets funky. With Battery's OFF, and the New CTIS ECU "DISCONNECTED", I have perfect 60 ohm on the CAN - and CAN + Pins on the DATA Port. If I plug the New CTIS ECU (the M939A2 Unit from ebay), into the System, I get only 3.9 oHm. If I bring the batteries on line, and turn on the Ignition switch, I get 24 volts at the CAN Neg (D) on the Data port 9 pin connector. If I do the same test, but with the New CTIS "Unplugged" from the system, I get the Proper Voltage on CAN - (D) and CAN + (C), on the Data Port. (About 2.5 volts on each) with CAN + (C) being a bit more then CAN - (D). Right now I would like to blame that M939A2 CTIS ECU. But, I think I am going to detail remove that Harness for the CTIS ECU, and inspect the "Tap in" portions that is has for the splice where it enters the J1939 CAN Network Cable. I have to remove that Heater Box from the Truck anyway, to put my AC System into place. Could that M939A2 ECU be sending 24 volts down that CAN Neg (D) Green Wire ? Or is it the CTIS Harness as the issue ? Let ya know. Here is a Good Link I found, that Really Helps with testing a J1939 CAN Buss Network if anyone wants to test / troubleshoot something. I believe we only have "4" things, on this J1939 Network on the LMTV's ? The CAT ECU, the ABS ECU, the Allison Transmission ECU and the CTIS ECU. I think that is it ?

 

[GeneralDisorder]

WABCO ABS module is also on the J1939 although I haven't got one to speak over that bus - only via J1708. They will complain with an ABS light though if the bus is down. According to the schematic they are connected to both busses.

It is also possible in theory to connect the 260 amp alternator (it's voltage regulator anyway) used in the later trucks to to the J1939. I have successfully read voltage and RPM data from the VR on my truck. Niehoff has special software to get all the data from the VR including event logs. Pretty neat.