Cummins 5.9L in a Deuce?

[russ81]

I know there is quite a bit of information here about INSTALLING a Cummins 5.9L in a deuce, but what I'm looking for is this:

How well does that engine perform in a deuce?

I have just completed bobbing my deuce, and I'm getting ready to install my 16x20's. My next step is the engine compartment. I would rather have pure brute force raw power in a big engine, then working the snot out of a smaller engine. I've had quite a few people tell me that the 5.9 is the way to go, but NONE of them have any experience with a deuce, let alone that engine in a deuce.

Any comments, opinions, experiences, ideas, or astude observations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Flea]

Look up Hot Rod Deuce and look at his rig. He's got a crew-cab deuce on 16.00-20's with a 5.9 cummins running around 300 hp. He seems to be pretty satisfied with the power - he does off-road it. Read back through some of his posts.

Edit: Keep in mind that the ISB Cummins (5.9L) has been used in quite a few medium duty trucks. The deuce was designed to do what it does with 130 hp and ~350 torque; the Cummins can easily double that with a simple chip. You'll run out of gear before you run out of power.

 

[WillWagner]

FYI, the B is only 359 cid, a tad smaller than the LDT. If you wanna good engine, try the Cummins C. It is 505 cid and 240 hp minimum.

 

[russ81]

Is the Cummins "C" 8.3L, and how well will it fit in the deuce? Also, what would I need to mount to the existing transmission?

 

[WillWagner]

Flywheel housings are availabe in the bellhousing size of the trans, or you can use the reducer that comes stock on the LDT. The C is a bit longer, I think by 2 or 3 inches. Ypu'll need to fab the mounts and a fan drive. The RPM is lower on the C, so you'll lose road speed.

 

[m16ty]

A 5.9 would be my first choice on a deuce repower. There would be one in mine but you can buy five multifuels for what a good 5.9 will cost and I'm cheap.

A freind of mine has a Dodge Cummins pulling truck. He's running over 60 psi of boost, 5,000 RPM, and right at 900 HP. All on the stock bottom end . It's no DD though. EGT gets to 1800* in one 300' pull. After he built it I never thought it would hold together. He proved to me that these engines are bullet proof.

 

[Offroadfabworks]

yes them engines are way over engineered from the factory. and detuned. some head work, and spring, along with injectors, pumps they can turn some very reliable numbers.

 

[CGarbee]

Charles Talbert at M Series Rebuild in Norwood, NC, has done a couple of B5.9 repower projects. One that he did that was written up in MV Magazine a few years back was a M108 that was then shipped to HI...

It was a nice rig...

 

[rizzo]

what vehicles were the "C" in? can they be built up?

 

[M543A2]

There is 120 cubic inches difference between the motors, which is no small thing ( the "465" is actually a 478 cubic inch motor). An engine's power is determined by the cubic inches and air flow available to burn the fuel put into it. There is also the matter of the difference in rotating mass available for launching the vehicle. I am very familiar with built 5.9 motors. Yes, they turn big numbers, but I would not pit one in my M543A2 wrecker and expect it to get down and lug at low RPM like the 478 does. I cannot imagine trying to maneuver this heavy truck in deep mud, starting and stopping, with the 5.9. The bottom end torque is just not there. Burned clutches would be the result. I see how the built 5.9 guys have to wait for boost to come up, etc. before launching. I can't see me doing that trying to get the 36,000 pound truck out of a muddy situation. I would not make the change, personally. There is more economical and easily obtainable power available from the 478 multifuel. I have a built Cummins in a dodge, am a Cummins lover and believer in what they can do, but would like to put a 478 multi in it, but no space. I wanted the reliability, low end torque, and easy to obtain HP they give. We have pulled heavy implement trailers with both the Cummins and the deuce, and the turned up deuce handles it better, especially in start/stop traffic situations. The drive train in the Dodge behind the multifuel would probably grab a large lunch sack and head for the nearest shade tree!
Just my experiences. Marti

 

[russ81]

M543A2,
I agree with everything you're saying. My question for you is this. My bobbed deuce is considerably lighter then your 36,000lb. monster. My truck will probably weigh no more then 10,000lb. fully loaded. Also, it is a 4x4 and not a 6x6, but I am going to run 52" tires. How do you think the 5.9 will handle my particular truck? I'm not carrying heavy loads, and I'm not going to be pulling equipment trailers. This truck will be used very hard off road for hunting, fishing, and just playing in the mud.

Thanks for your input.

 

[hot rod deuce]

Ok, so I have been out for a while but will chime in. First of all the 5.9 when it was stock 190 hp had MUCHO power more than the herc. as far as "no off idle power" I understand the theroy but its just not the case. You are talking bobbed truck he is talking 5 ton truck and a WRECKER at that. Have you looked at the size differance? 855 cummins all the way for the 543 or yes a C series(That is what the army uses in them now) the indiana National guard re-powered a frew M35's with 5.9s. even.

I think when you go from 50's tech ahead fourty years there is alot to be gained in combustion chambers and cam timing that help out that part of it. Bottom line like the other guy said the herc is like 350 Tq and he is right on the button with his theory. (I think it is closer to 300) and a 190 HP CPL around #1553 is 445 at 1400. That is more than the whole rig was rated for. Look up the specs on a C series. They are over 500 inches, heavy and kinda long for the application. A 250 c series will probably be close to 550 TQ. Dont forget the truck used to have TWO axles to split the Tq. now it is all one just one axle.

Now, dont forget the radiator. Take a look and get out the tape mesure. If you want the area it takes to cool a C series you will be moving the head lights to the fenders, but with the shape of the grill it moves the radiator bnack, giving up valuable room. Another tell tale is the size of drive shafts.

Expect to pay dearly for a C series as well. 5.9s can be had for about 2K but a C is double that. Im not saying it wouldnt be neat to do but I think its a little like putting a 454 in a jeep.

Look at is this way, A dodge crew cab pick up weights about 7500 pounds and is geared for 90+ in high gear laid on the spring. figure you weight 10% more at 10K but you will be geared 20 LOWER. I know rotating mass comes in and all that other kind of good stuff but not so much from a rolling start. Its a guild line for you. Another VERY good point is road speed like the other guy said! Expect to give up 20% on the top end with a C series.

we have done a "drag race" with my Crew cab sporting SIX 16.00's vs a stock truck with a 1-D. I used the low gear to start and the stock truck stared in the next higher. There was no comparison, the old herc was a peice of history.

 

[Andydieselpower]

welcome back!

Good to hear from you Tony! Your website looks great.
I agree the 5.9L Cummins is more than sufficient for a bobbed duece. I've owned a 2001 Dodge H.O. 5.9 6spd 4x4 around 7,300lbs and an 2003 S.O. 5.9 5spd 4x4 weighing 8,100lbs empty. When I hauled my NHC 250 engine in the crate driving back from N.C. the truck acted like the weight wasn't there from a power standpoint. This was hauled in the bed. It did ride like a Caddy though! I figure the total weight of the truck + load was 12,600lbs with everything- more than a bobbed M35 will ever weigh. You can't beat an inline for durability. Look at the guiness book of world records for highest mileage records on vehicles- all inline motors. The Cummins B series starts great in the cold and lasts longer than the competitive V8's in other brands from what I've seen- Look at the camper haulers from Indiana on the road or professional hot shot drivers. 95% of them run Dodge/Cummins from what I can tell due to the fact of the longevity and good fuel mileage of the B series. I met a guy filling up with a 96 Dodge that had 720k on the origional motor-the Dodge looked horrible as would be expected but the engine still sounded great. The B series Cummins also sounds very good with a straight pipe......

Andy

 

[russ81]

RE: welcome back!

OK....OK..........you guys have me convinced!!!!!!!!!!

I went and looked at an `03 5.9 today. Guy has a 4x4 that got rolled when a drunk driver side swiped him. Pretty light roll luckly enough. Nothing is damaged on the drive train.

Now for the big questions. What do I have to do to mount that engine up to the stock 5 speed transmission? This engine is mated to an automatic tranny, so I know I'm going to have to have a fly wheel, but what about the clutch/pressure plate assembly? Other then that I should be able to make everything work with a little inginuity.

Thanks again for all the input! I'll post pictures as the build progresses.

 

[Powerstroke94]

Have you figured out the answers to your questions yet russ81? Im curious as well!

 

[fsearls92]

I would never put a cummins 5.9 in a truck, still not sure why dodge kept it so long after they switched to the 24 valve. The 12 valves are great engines, one at a ranch I worked at had 820,000 miles on it. I have many friends who drive trucks with the 5.9 24 valve in it and numerous of them have not made it past 150,000 miles. I hate to start an argument but the newer ones are no worth a darn. Keep the LDT in your truck, way better engine!

 

[M-1028]

I guess it's your area, there are a couple 03 and later common rail trucks around here that have around 500k and had very little engine problems.

 

[Gottlos]

I would never put a cummins 5.9 in a truck, still not sure why dodge kept it so long after they switched to the 24 valve. The 12 valves are great engines, one at a ranch I worked at had 820,000 miles on it. I have many friends who drive trucks with the 5.9 24 valve in it and numerous of them have not made it past 150,000 miles. I hate to start an argument but the newer ones are no worth a darn. Keep the LDT in your truck, way better engine!

The 5.9 Cummins started life as a 12 valve (noisy). It evolved into the 24 valve (quieter). The engine you may be thinking of is the newer 6.7 Cummins that showed up in 2007.

 

[colt45727]

Make sure you get the computer with that 03 5.9 and gas pedal. Im pretty sure youll have to take the whole harness, and computer to make the engine work right. Also, waterproof it best you can..

 

[fsearls92]

No, the trucks that multiple friends had were the 5.9's. All of them were 2006 and older. Two other guys I know have had to put in new 6.7's also on their newer trucks.