Dark Seas M1008 Project

[deank]

PO is the previous owner. You pic shows the alignment looks pretty to to me. I like the idea of a straight edge across the pulleys. Or, try the belt itself.

 

[ezgn]

What do ya mean the Po?

Before the PS pump had a broken wing on it on the far driver side. This one's solid. Only thing original is the brackets and on the PS pump that bottom bracket never came out it stayed there. The PS pump and attached bracket are all new.

Previous owner.

 

[DarkSeas]

Previous owner.

Ahh, I see:

Hard to say, honestly. We took the bracket off that had the washers behind it, and Junior/Tom put washers on it before re-install because it looked like it had washers installed on it by PO (you could tell by the wear on the back of the bracket where the studs went in). So they put washers in, got it back together, and the alignment looked bad.

I went back last night and pulled the alternator bracket, the back bracket, and the PS pump back off to see if I could get a better alignment and double check we used the correct hardware. I found the washer and removed it according to the TMs and got everything back together, it seems better now. I sent junior the picture of the pulley configuration now and asked him if it looked better and he said it did.

The way the PO had it, the PS pump belt was screaming. I'm not 100% sure the alignment or washer situation then. I know one of the wing brackets was snapped off and a line was split and leaking, but I can't speak to the pulley alignment. I might have an old photo of it somewhere I accidentally took.

 

[DarkSeas]

Everythings set up to put batteries on and bleed the air tomorrow. Alternators and belts are on. Wires are on the alternators. The inspection plate is back on. The CDR valve and hoses are back on. Battery tray is back on. Power steering lines are on. Vacuum pump is tightened down. All she is missing is batteries and the air cleaner.

Would appreciate a double check on the alternator wiring. Which is positive and negative on the backsides.

 

[DarkSeas]

Plan is to get a can of ether and turn the key tomorrow. Get her running again. Feels like christmas eve as a kid.

 

[ezgn]

Plan is to get a can of ether and turn the key tomorrow. Get her running again. Feels like christmas eve as a kid.

I wouldn't use ether. This is one article of many on the website of what can happen./https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/m1009-starting-problems.45122/

 

[vanaisa]

IF you need use aids, use wd40. Ether is no-no.

 

[DarkSeas]

IF you need use aids, use wd40. Ether is no-no.

I wouldn't use either. This is one article of many on the website of what can happen./https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/m1009-starting-problems.45122/

Interesting, I read the thread. Looks like it has to do with a few things, ether breaks down oil and if the glow plugs are hot it can flash back out of the intake? I also see in some articles online that starter fluids in diesels can ignite early from the diesels high compression, which could damage the motor. Hmm. I definitely don't want to break the oil down, and I don't plan on using starter fluid every time to start it, just this initial startup since she's been sitting out of action about 10 months.

Once we bleed the air out of the fuel lines, fuel filter, and injectors, I don't think it will need very much to get started.

We weren't planning on using the glow plugs if we were going to use a starting aid tonight, and my glow plugs are not connected to my key. There's a manual push button, so no chance of them being active and hot and igniting some starter fluid.

 

[DarkSeas]

Last night was fun. We hooked the batteries up, and nothing started melting. Turned the key and the fuel pump kicked on and some of the 12V stuff in the cab was working again - the radio and little interior lights the PO put in before me. Neat. Took out a multimeter and checked the 12V side, it said 12V. 24V bus bar and starter had 24V, looking good. Still nothing melting, so we gave the starter a bump. Motor turned over, little bit sluggish.

Fiddled with some grounds, put the main battery ground on the battery not the bus bar, tightened up some other grounds. Cranked again, this time there was smoke at the back of the motor. what in the world. It was coming from the body/intake bolt ground strap. There was another cable on it that comes off my harness and the only thing it could connect to was ground and it was a black wire so we assumed ground. Took that off the strap, turned the key back on, 12V at this small wire. Big WTF moment there, but we moved it out of the way and tightened the strap back down, alright should be good to crank over again. Still no idea what's putting 12V out at that wire, it looks like it would connect to the resistor block or the intake bolt ground, it's not long enough to really reach anywhere else.

We crank it again and sparks shoot out of the ground strap at the intake bolt. Woah. Never seen a ground get hot like that before. The ground strap has tape on it, we decide to investigate. Guy stuck a drywall screw into the cab at the body ground end... little bit of concern there that it went deep enough and gouged something hot behind the dash. We take the tape off, and the strap comes apart... in half. The guy taped it back together, big WTF moment #2. Now the problem is, we don't have any connectors to make a new "strap" out of some 2ga or 4ga wire. Had some connectors that weren't the perfect size or bore but we made it work, hooked the new "strap" to the cab and intake bolt and cranked it, smokes gone.

She turned over pretty good, but the batteries I have for the truck are 2 DieHard Gold batteries from 2015. They're at the end of their life, will be fine when everything's bled and she starts easy, but for all the cranking and bleeding we're going to need to do, we need some new batteries with higher CCA.

Either way, I'm very excited to say that all my wiring seems like it came out correct for most of it. I didn't get a Gen 1 or Gen 2 light or anything on the dash that I saw, that'll be a problem for another day. I'm getting new batteries today, and the boys told me I'm not allowed to mess with it until they can help me next week. Cheers.

 

[Mullaney]

Last night was fun. We hooked the batteries up, and nothing started melting. Turned the key and the fuel pump kicked on and some of the 12V stuff in the cab was working again - the radio and little interior lights the PO put in before me. Neat. Took out a multimeter and checked the 12V side, it said 12V. 24V bus bar and starter had 24V, looking good. Still nothing melting, so we gave the starter a bump. Motor turned over, little bit sluggish.

Fiddled with some grounds, put the main battery ground on the battery not the bus bar, tightened up some other grounds. Cranked again, this time there was smoke at the back of the motor. what in the world. It was coming from the body/intake bolt ground strap. There was another cable on it that comes off my harness and the only thing it could connect to was ground and it was a black wire so we assumed ground. Took that off the strap, turned the key back on, 12V at this small wire. Big WTF moment there, but we moved it out of the way and tightened the strap back down, alright should be good to crank over again. Still no idea what's putting 12V out at that wire, it looks like it would connect to the resistor block or the intake bolt ground, it's not long enough to really reach anywhere else.

We crank it again and sparks shoot out of the ground strap at the intake bolt. Woah. Never seen a ground get hot like that before. The ground strap has tape on it, we decide to investigate. Guy stuck a drywall screw into the cab at the body ground end... little bit of concern there that it went deep enough and gouged something hot behind the dash. We take the tape off, and the strap comes apart... in half. The guy taped it back together, big WTF moment #2. Now the problem is, we don't have any connectors to make a new "strap" out of some 2ga or 4ga wire. Had some connectors that weren't the perfect size or bore but we made it work, hooked the new "strap" to the cab and intake bolt and cranked it, smokes gone.

She turned over pretty good, but the batteries I have for the truck are 2 DieHard Gold batteries from 2015. They're at the end of their life, will be fine when everything's bled and she starts easy, but for all the cranking and bleeding we're going to need to do, we need some new batteries with higher CCA.

Either way, I'm very excited to say that all my wiring seems like it came out correct for most of it. I didn't get a Gen 1 or Gen 2 light or anything on the dash that I saw, that'll be a problem for another day. I'm getting new batteries today, and the boys told me I'm not allowed to mess with it until they can help me next week. Cheers.

.
It is always difficult to hunt and fix ignorance.
That is the most frustrating part of buying a new-to-you vehicle.
You are required to find all the "half-ast" fixes from the PO...

Sounds like you have made good progress so far.
And having buddies that can be standing around to look for problems is a good thing too!
With help, you have a better chance of catching an issue before you completely smoke your truck.

.

 

[DarkSeas]

... having buddies that can be standing around to look for problems is a good thing too!
With help, you have a better chance of catching an issue before you completely smoke your truck.

.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The guys have been nothing but patient with me this whole time, and I've learned a lot so far. It felt really good that I put all the wiring back in and everything was correct, 24V was where it should be, 12V was where it should be. I guess we will see how the alternators hold up charging once the motor runs, but the guys told me they were really impressed, Junior told me "At the end of the day buddy, I feel way better about this truck coming to life than I did before we hooked the batteries up tonight." Tom had faith that things were going to work since he's been watching me put the wiring back together, but Junior was doubtful until we turned the key and nothing smoked and all the voltages were correct. The fuel pump did its thing, the starter cranked as it should, and the motor turned over and fuel got to the filter. He said he has a lot more faith now that we are going to be just fine here soon.

I just picked up 2 new DieHard Gold batteries with 850 CCA. These should be perfect for the old girl. As tempted as I am to go back up there tonight hook the batteries up and see if she cranks stronger, I know they want me to wait. They keep me from making mistakes and help solve issues as we find them, so I will wait. I also have the ol' ladys family in town this weekend and I've been given hints that I better not disappear under the CUCV all weekend while they're in town. That's a request I must abide.

 

[Mullaney]

Couldn't have said it better myself. The guys have been nothing but patient with me this whole time, and I've learned a lot so far. It felt really good that I put all the wiring back in and everything was correct, 24V was where it should be, 12V was where it should be. I guess we will see how the alternators hold up charging once the motor runs, but the guys told me they were really impressed, Junior told me "At the end of the day buddy, I feel way better about this truck coming to life than I did before we hooked the batteries up tonight." Tom had faith that things were going to work since he's been watching me put the wiring back together, but Junior was doubtful until we turned the key and nothing smoked and all the voltages were correct. The fuel pump did its thing, the starter cranked as it should, and the motor turned over and fuel got to the filter. He said he has a lot more faith now that we are going to be just fine here soon.

I just picked up 2 new DieHard Gold batteries with 850 CCA. These should be perfect for the old girl. As tempted as I am to go back up there tonight hook the batteries up and see if she cranks stronger, I know they want me to wait. They keep me from making mistakes and help solve issues as we find them, so I will wait. I also have the ol' ladys family in town this weekend and I've been given hints that I better not disappear under the CUCV all weekend while they're in town. That's a request I must abide.

.
Good Plan!
I understand completely.

 

[ezgn]

Couldn't have said it better myself. The guys have been nothing but patient with me this whole time, and I've learned a lot so far. It felt really good that I put all the wiring back in and everything was correct, 24V was where it should be, 12V was where it should be. I guess we will see how the alternators hold up charging once the motor runs, but the guys told me they were really impressed, Junior told me "At the end of the day buddy, I feel way better about this truck coming to life than I did before we hooked the batteries up tonight." Tom had faith that things were going to work since he's been watching me put the wiring back together, but Junior was doubtful until we turned the key and nothing smoked and all the voltages were correct. The fuel pump did its thing, the starter cranked as it should, and the motor turned over and fuel got to the filter. He said he has a lot more faith now that we are going to be just fine here soon.

I just picked up 2 new DieHard Gold batteries with 850 CCA. These should be perfect for the old girl. As tempted as I am to go back up there tonight hook the batteries up and see if she cranks stronger, I know they want me to wait. They keep me from making mistakes and help solve issues as we find them, so I will wait. I also have the ol' ladys family in town this weekend and I've been given hints that I better not disappear under the CUCV all weekend while they're in town. That's a request I must abide.

Are you going to remove the glow plugs and crack the fuel injection lines to prime the fuel system up to the injectors before you try to start it?

 

[DarkSeas]

Are you going to remove the glow plugs and crack the fuel injection lines to prime the fuel system up to the injectors before you try to start it?

Correct. Gonna crack the injector lines and bleed the air out soon. Theyre just busy this weekend and told me not to do it myself.

Is removing the glow plugs necessary if theyre manual and not key based?

 

[Buck69]

Pulling glow plugs might help with increasing cranking speed but is not a common step in bleeding the fuel system? Unless you already have fuel up to the injectors, I would not recommend the use of ether to dry fire it. You are risking the possibility of broken rings, damaged pistons and even scoring the cylinder walls. Am sure some may have gotten away with it, but it is not a good idea. Ether is meant as a start aid for use in low temperatures.
You could always disconnect the signal wire to the glow plug relay if there is any possibility of them cycling while using ether.
I live in the north and have had to repair multiple engines that were damaged due to the incorrect use of ether. Rings broken into several pieces is the most common. Top lands broken off is not far behind.
If you feel you have to use it, do so in moderation and only while the engine is cranking over.

 

[ezgn]

Correct. Gonna crack the injector lines and bleed the air out soon. Theyre just busy this weekend and told me not to do it myself.

Is removing the glow plugs necessary if theyre manual and not key based?

Not if your going to start it without the aid of the glow plugs. I believe you said you are going to use starting fluid. I would use the glow plugs to start it instead of starting fluid. Crack each line one at a time until the system is primed and start cranking.

 

[DIVE DIVE]

I recommend removing the glow plugs. It saves a lot of stress on the starter and batteries while priming the fuel system. I attached what my ground stud looks like on the rear of the block.

 

[DarkSeas]

I recommend removing the glow plugs. It saves a lot of stress on the starter and batteries while priming the fuel system. I attached what my ground stud looks like on the rear of the block.

Interesting. So I see a ground strap to the firewall and I wanna assume that thick black cable is for a slave plug, I have 2 cables just like it in my engine bay I tied down for now till we get things running and charging properly.

I see you also have a small black ground coming from somewhere, is it part of your harness coming out of the loom? I had a wire like it, part of an original harness, but it was getting 12V of power when cranking. Odd.

 

[Buck69]

The harness in my truck has that black wire clearly hanging out in that location. Can likely trace it back pretty easily if you want to know where it goes? I have not disturbed any of the electrical in the truck yet except removed the instrument cluster. I don't mind tracing others for you as well if it helps.

 

[DarkSeas]

The harness in my truck has that black wire clearly hanging out in that location. Can likely trace it back pretty easily if you want to know where it goes? I have not disturbed any of the electrical in the truck yet except removed the instrument cluster. I don't mind tracing others for you as well if it helps.

That would save me a lot of time tomorrow when I can get back up to the shop. If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it. Somehow I've got 12V of power coming out of it to the engine ground on the intake stud.

My guess is it's gonna come out under the dash somewhere or I somehow have it connected to 12V in the engine bay. The harness in the engine bay is a replacement from another CUCV, in pretty good shape, so I really don't expect that the engine wiring is incorrect. I have not gotten to the dash wiring yet, but it's horrible, and I might have two things touching or shorted under there.

Edit: to add on, the guy before me said it kept catching on fire at the firewall, kind of by where I was getting sparks at the ground strap and 12V off that black wire. My guess is he shorted something under the dash and that short started a fire where I was seeing sparks.