detroit locker in the rear axle(s)

[sparkylisle]

I have a bobbed m35 and I would like to install a detroit locker in the rear axle. www.usa6x6.com has instructions on his website and the install seems straight-foreward. Has anyone done this install, and what are some things to watch out for???

 

[breelanr]

sparkylisle,

You are correct, the install is straight forward. It is easier with the bed off of the truck or with the axle assembly removed from the vehicle. The 3rd member is heavy, a engine lift would really make it a snap. Clean off the 3rd member very well before dissassembly, all of the grease and dirt around the edges and on the bolts will drop in the axle when you pull the 3rd member out. You will need safety wire and safety wire pliers to secure the bolts upon reassembly. I found a bad bearing on the carrier when I pulled mine apart, but NAPA had the bearing and race on the shelf so it was an easy fix. You should get a new gasket for the 3rd member prior to the work, most of the suppliers have them, I got mine from Boyce Equipment. Don't remove the retaining bolt and washers until the locker is installed, and don't install the axles until the retaining bolt and washers are removed.

p.m. me if you have specific questions.
Ray

 

[M1075]

Breelanr-

Which axle(s) received the locker?

 

[breelanr]

I currently have one locker, installed in the rear axle. The middle axle has the Ouverson double splined shafts and lock-out hubs. The front axle is locked-out as well. The idea was to compensate on-road for the disconnected middle axle and improve off-road performance. I have not had to lock the middle axle yet in any adverse on-road conditions, the traction is greatly improved. The locker did not affect the turing radius improvement gained by running singles and disconnecting one rear drive axle.

 

[gringeltaube]

The middle axle has the Ouverson double splined shafts and lock-out hubs.

A little bit off topic: shafts & hubs on both sides of the middle axle? Why?

Just one locker located in the rear rear axle makes a lot of sense to me. Personally I would prefer an ARB in that place and ... (still dreaming)...one in the front pumpkin, too!

Gerhard

 

[Twinpinion]

Here are some locker install and axle tips.
http://www.jpmagazine.com/projectbuild/154_0402_hot_dog_suspension_part_2/index.html

 

[rizzo]

If I had 1 air locker I would put it in the front.

 

[Twinpinion]

That would be a lot of stress on the stock stub shafts. Usually the first to fail. Also more expensive than a rear shaft.

 

[rizzo]

That would be a lot of stress on the stock stub shafts. Usually the first to fail. Also more expensive than a rear shaft.

I was talking about lockers and where I would put an air locker. I think the best off road performance can be gained from a locker in the front over the the back.

I do like the stub shaft. I would put mine on the 3rd axle

 

[Twinpinion]

That would be a lot of stress on the stock stub shafts. Usually the first to fail. Also more expensive than a rear shaft.

I was talking about lockers and where I would put an air locker. I think the best off road performance can be gained from a locker in the front over the the back.

I do like the stub shaft. I would put mine on the 3rd axle

I understand. The outer front axle shafts (stub shafts) are weak. Too much traction and they will break first. Not a good location for your only locker.

A front locker is never as benificial as a rear one due to weight transfer (climbing). Maybe a different story for mud on flat ground but you will be dealing with a pushing effect with a front locker in that situation. Pulling a vehicle through is never as efficent as pushing with a rear locker.

 

[rmgill]

Ok, who's talking about what kind of locker?

Air Locker = Air powered Diff Lock
Locker/Detroit Locker = Automatic Differential Lock
Locking Hub = selectable lock at the Hub for egaging/disengaging that axle
Air shift = Front axle arrangement lever (as opposed to a sprag)

Wouldn't the ideal setup be
three Air Lockers on all three axles?

Barring that, what about a detroit in the back, and two air lockers in the middle and front?

 

[houdel]

Ryan - I like your thoughts, but why not Detroit Lockers on all three axles, Overson hubs on the front axle and Overson hubs with double splined shafts on one rear axle (your choice of axle) for maximum on road snow belt performance, decent off road use as well? Not that I have that much pocket change to buy all those parts, but I CAN dream, can't I?

As I understand it, the ARB lockers lock the diff up solid when engaged, whereas the Detoit Lockers initially allow a limited amount of slip, lock up solid when the wheel speed difference exceeds a preset limit, then disengage when the wheel torques equal out again. Am I correct in this assumption?

 

[M1075]

To run desplined axles shafts on an axle with a detroit locker, would you need lock out hubs on both sides?

 

[rmgill]

M1075. Yes. It would lock up one side as the other was slipping and you'd have 3 wheels driving.

Non-Selectable locking diffs are a bad idea up front, although I guess with the air-shift it might not be an issue, I'm not sure what a detroit locker would do if the hubs are engaged but the input is not. It very well may stay locked all the time.

Personally, i'd prefer locking axles that I could select or de-select. Basically, a panel with three air switches in a row and a lever for engaging the rear axle from the middle. That's my dream setup. Basically a Giant Pinzgauer.

 

[gringeltaube]

rmgill,
I totally agree. And that is my dream, too!

houdel,
I hate to disturb your dreams... but I learned it the hard way... DL is not a limited slip, and there is no differentiation even if they like to use that word in their brochure. What it does while making a corner is allowing the outer wheel to disengage from the rest of the power train until both wheels turn at equal speed again. Under load (accelerating or coasting downhill/ engine braking) it keeps both shafts solidly connected, like a spool. Installed in the front axle would be fine if it wasn't a steering axle... Try to avoid that sharp rock coming down a steep hill, front axle engaged while using the engine & drive train for braking! I will never again put a DL in a steering axle!

M1075,
I guess you meant custom shafts, splined on both ends in a DL- equipped rear axle? If so the answer is yes: lock out hubs on both sides!
Instead, run a DL in the r. rear axle and keep the middle axle std./open (or better ARB!) and use only one custom shaft & hub on that axle.

Gerhard

 

[Towman2277]

Hey, just hit the deep mud holes really fast, and the weight will help you to the other side!! JUST KIDDING!!

 

[gringeltaube]

Momentum often helps, better tires do a lot and all the goodies together make the difference between pain and fun to drive a deuce in every terrain.

 

[mcinfantry]

weight transfer is a factor in a regular balanced vehicle with 4 tires. i understand the theory of weight transfer, but isnt a deuce 6000 over the front axle on 2 contact patches, verses 6000 in the rear over 8 contact patches? so i guess do you want the axle locked with 3000 lbs per side (contact patch) or the axle locked with 1500 per side or (700 per contact patch). my ASSUMPTION would be i would prefer the locker on the axle with the heavier contact patch or available traction.

i could definitly tell a traction difference with several thousand pounds of concrete in the bed.

 

[rizzo]

weight transfer is a factor in a regular balanced vehicle with 4 tires. i understand the theory of weight transfer, but isnt a deuce 6000 over the front axle on 2 contact patches, verses 6000 in the rear over 8 contact patches? so i guess do you want the axle locked with 3000 lbs per side (contact patch) or the axle locked with 1500 per side or (700 per contact patch). my ASSUMPTION would be i would prefer the locker on the axle with the heavier contact patch or available traction.

i could definitly tell a traction difference with several thousand pounds of concrete in the bed.

those are most of my reasons for an air locker in the front


It is my understanding that the detroit locker (not limited slip) locks up when power is aplied. Eugene has a locker in the front of his ford and that is what he told me. alot of times he will shift the front end off for tight turns.

going down hill the locker should be off cause no power is applied. ?????? maybe not!

 

[mcinfantry]

you out 3 detroits in a deuce and im willing to bet it will not turn left or right offroad