Deuce/5 ton ROPS Kit?

[swbradley1]

So far (even with a couple of sidetracks) this has been a good thread. Certainly not for why it was started but for the effort to improve the trucks if possible.

I would think someone would take the time to write up design criteria. Will you want it to work at Deuce highway speeds or riding with Gimp? Will it have to work with the existing structure of the vehicle or will you be willing to make some mods (cut cab or bed) or maybe move the bed. Does it have to aesthetically pleasing to the eye or maintain MV appearance. Square tube or round.

We have a resource that we might be able to tap at Xtreme4x4. They know about the trucks and they sure knows how to build safe cages. Maybe we could hit them up for their thoughts.

 

[dozer1]

From what I have seen about that incident with Gimp. Wouldnt something called "FLOPS" do the trick?

 

[Dave Kay]

For those who may be engineering-types, maybe some good ideas here...

Fraser Steel Company Home: All Things Tubular

 

[Dave Kay]

For what it is worth, I owned a Komatsu dozer (10,000 ish lbs). It was built in Japan and had no ROPS available when imported to the US. A guy in MO fabbed a "canopy" that would certainly help in a rollover..... I recognize that the dozer operates at slower speeds, but increased protection, even if imperfect should be an improvement.... Remember, it was merely a beefy canopy to protect my bald head from the sun....

IMHO, I think you bring up a good point; that being, what type of materiels and /or design is going to perform the intended purpose of ROP--- to protect vehicle occupants in a rollover.

Something could be fabbed to look and maybe act like an ROP and maybe give driver and occupants a sense of protection but how will it actually perform at the moment it is most critically needed? And at what speed will it afford real protection, etc.,?

My whole point is; what size/shape/length of steel tube and what type/size/angle/thickness of gusset is needed to withstand the weight of 12-16 thousand pound vehicle traveling at 30 mph in a rollover without failure? These are the questions that need to be asked here and speculation on what may or may not be adequate should be left to experts for an answer. When you're travelling down the road in an out of control 12-20K lbs vehicle about to rollover--- it is probably NOT a good time or place to play crash-test dummy.

Not saying that anyone here is doing that. But as I posted earlier (the Cat scraper photos) these cages are designed by engineers and are tried and tested and as witnessed personally myself, they truly work--- thank You Lord!

This is the type of design I will incorporate in my Deuce when it comes time and place and not rely on some untried and untested "this should work" kind of fabrications. My family are Home-made hillbilly fabricators from southern Illinois going wayback--- and beleive me--- I'm looking for a dependable solution to this problem as much as anybody. But I honestly believe that some of the examples we've seen so far like pipe, headache and beefed-up lumber racks just aren't going to cut the mustard in serious vehicle rollover.

 

[powerhouseduece]

I'll have to get some mesurements out of my 818, I see what I can do with my Bend-Tech software.

 

[smoke]

Could we do a halo in front of dash and one behind seats X them together on top run a brace from one side to other on front below windshields and above dash. Maybe run X on the back one or straight bar across back one. I'm trying to use setup in my 65 mustang as example. I have a 8 point in it. I have a halo behind the front seats than there is bar that split it in half there is two more that come off right under that center bar that go toward the trans tunnel than two come to front firewall on angle to protect your sides ( I know can not use that hard to climb in out) Than two more go to the back of the car from the top of the halo. Too make it 12 point they add front halo goes down behind windshield and dash X the two halo together on top. I know this is a design for the shorter less plump ( don't take it personal) people. But it would be inside the truck you could paint to match. I wish I could draw it on here but don't have capablity to do so you understand better. Maybe powerhouse could do something on his software with this. I seen and know a couple guys that went though the top end of the track on their roofs rolling and hit the wall and walked away. I know car don't weigh the same as trucks but U factor in the speed of the cars ( one of them went though the traps rolling time board said it was still doing 140mph) and it multiplies the force on the cage alot may equal the same as truck at a slower speed. I help this can help. That my

 

[Atomic]

How about instead of attached to the frame, build something that is technically inside the cab that would just take the beating. So, even if the cab was disconnected from the frame, it would still protect the occupants inside just by covering them 360 in a " ball. Our m1114s in iraq used the same idea for IED protection. It is a lot easier to build something that you could build around the driver rather then try to get its strength from the frame, and you could still mount a 50 on it.

That is the same thought that I had. Fabing up a internal cage seems the most logical. You see the pics of F1 and Indy cars torn apart from high speed impacts but the "cage" area for the driver is fine and dandy.

I don't think it would be to terribly difficult to work out the deatils. Having a internal cage vs a external roll bar or light bar, or what ever you want to call it brings many varibles. In Wering's pic I believe due to the long tangent of the bar coming off the bows to the bumber would fold up quickly in the event of a roll over.

Having a internal cage braced at all four points and joined horizontally on the cab deck would not only afford you the protection it WOULD give but it would be out of the way. The cab on these things are small anyway and I can't tell you how many times the parking brake has almost invited its self up my butt trying to get out or in.

I think the fact that the bed sperated from the chassis speaks volumes about the viloent nature of the roll over in discussion. I can't stand NASCAR but if memory serves, Dale's accident was nothing short of boring but he passed on regardless. It was his time so to speak, but the HANS device is now mandatory and I am thankful my father puts one on everytime he races.

In the end, no amount of planning or prep will solve all variables and ceratinly like those presented in a extreme weight and roll case but prepaidness goes along way.

I will be quick to revisist this thread because we may end up with a safer hobby as a result.

Thoughts and prayers to the family.

 

[KsM715]

For a cage (interior) to offer proper protection it needs to be tied into the frame. But the deuce (and 5tons) frames are designed to flex and twist making tying the cage into the frame nearly impossible. In a lightweight race car you want a rigid chassis, even in the rockcwaler world the rigid cage is not that much of a hinderance, but in an offroad cargo truck you need that flex.

Edit: Atomic, I was typing my post before yours was posted. I see what you mean by a single interior cage. That might be possible you would still have to tie the seats and seat belts to that cage and that going to be alot of tubing inside the cab. You would probably need some bars running up the center of the windsheild and back of cab to support the horizontal tube from bending with the weight of the deuce on top of it. Still its something to think about.

 

[powerhouseduece]

For a cage (interior) to offer proper protection it needs to be tied into the frame. But the deuce (and 5tons) frames are designed to flex and twist making tying the cage into the frame nearly impossible. In a lightweight race car you want a rigid chassis, even in the rockcwaler world the rigid cage is not that much of a hinderance, but in an offroad cargo truck you need that flex.

I been trying to work with that. I was thinking about tiying the seats and cab floor into the cage, kinda like a capsul. As long as the cage cand withstand the crushing force of the rest of the truck, the driver will be ok, even if the cab breaks away from the rest of the truck. (top fuel drag boats)

 

[KsM715]

I been trying to work with that. I was thinking about tiying the seats and cab floor into the cage, kinda like a capsul. As long as the cage cand withstand the crushing force of the rest of the truck, the driver will be ok, even if the cab breaks away from the rest of the truck. (top fuel drag boats)

 

[cjtroutt]

You want a rops top you will need a engineere to do all the blue prints specks and dom tubing and certified weld shop for libilty to have any true and safety concern to be met .
or find a NHRA chassie shop build it and cert it.
2inch 120 wall crome molly tube.

 

[hndrsonj]

I been trying to work with that. I was thinking about tiying the seats and cab floor into the cage, kinda like a capsul. As long as the cage cand withstand the crushing force of the rest of the truck, the driver will be ok, even if the cab breaks away from the rest of the truck. (top fuel drag boats)

This would be the easiest and cheapest route. I think a four point cage in the cab, heavily tied to the floor and not the frame would work the best. Remember there are only 4 bolts that mount the cab to the frame and they pass through sheetmetal. Just ensure the "capsule" retains it's integrity. There is a company in IA that sells cages on ebay (look for cj-5 roll cage) that could probably bend one up for well under $500.

 

[Mike929]

You want a rops top you will need a engineere to do all the blue prints specks and dom tubing and certified weld shop for libilty to have any true and safety concern to be met .
or find a NHRA chassie shop build it and cert it.
2inch 120 wall crome molly tube.

It's not a ROPS it is a light bar, gun ring, seatbelt rack. In no way is the device certified as a ROPS.



Actually it could also be sold as a kit with the buyer welding up the pieces.

 

[smoke]

1. I was thinking more about this you may be able to incorparate a swing out bar at the doors to help tie the two halo together and to easy get in and out . it would also stiff up the cage when the bars closed and locked in. Remember the best way to add strenght to cage is too X together helps to distabute forces evenly across cage

 

[Mike929]

This would be the easiest and cheapest route. I think a four point cage in the cab, heavily tied to the floor and not the frame would work the best. Remember there are only 4 bolts that mount the cab to the frame and they pass through sheetmetal. Just ensure the "capsule" retains it's integrity. There is a company in IA that sells cages on ebay (look for cj-5 roll cage) that could probably bend one up for well under $500.

So the idea is in a hard crash the cage could be ripped from the truck as long as it stayed intact. Thus adding the possible benefit of removing the 13,000 lb hammer.

 

[powerhouseduece]

So the idea is in a hard crash the cage could be ripped from the truck as long as it stayed intact. Thus adding the possible benefit of removing the 13,000 lb hammer.

yes, the idea is for the cab, driver, and cage to rip away in a really bad crash and yet be able to withstand the crushing force of the rest of the truck.

 

[powerhouseduece]

You want a rops top you will need a engineere to do all the blue prints specks and dom tubing and certified weld shop for libilty to have any true and safety concern to be met .
or find a NHRA chassie shop build it and cert it.
2inch 120 wall crome molly tube.

Yea, if your selling it! Do you plan on taking a deuce over 200mph? I do agree on the 2" .120" wall dom, Thats what I planned on using. Biggest issue is that 2" dom cost $10-15 a foot. Not many people want to pay that and will subsutute a lesser pipe.

 

[cranetruck]

Random pics from my files...

 

[kastein]

I usually go with "when in doubt build it stout", so the idea of using 2 inch 0.120 wall DOM has me scratching my head... I can put some serious hurt on that with my 3500lb jeeps nevermind rolling a 20 thousand pound truck over on top of it. I wouldn't be using anything under quarter inch wall tubing and probably 2 or 3 inch diameter at the very least. Maybe I'm overthinking this.

If I had to guess from what's left, especially from the nonsymmetrical damage on the dodge and the tractor trailer - one of the involved vehicles tried to swerve, or swerved due to being hit, resulting in the A3 swinging sideways when it got hit, similar to how a PIT maneuver ends during a police chase. A PIT maneuver can easily end in a rollover when the vehicle being intercepted has a high center of gravity (i.e. large SUVs, lifted vehicles, trucks.)

Given the fact that the truck weighs so much, and offers so little protection from a rollover, my plan involves some flashing lights, maybe a bright magnetic sign with large lettering reading WARNING SLOW VEHICLE 55MPH MAX SPEED, and watching my mirrors religiously. If I can prevent a rear end collision from ever happening by paranoid driving, I am ahead of the game.

 

[A/C Cages]

Looks kinda like my headache rack on my flatbed.