Deuce/5 ton ROPS Kit?

[Dave Kay]

Again, I am not a design or structural engineer but would like to show a little about how heavy equipment type vehicles are put together. In MSPAINT program I did a rough-in of an ROP idea that is in my mind. Feel free to comment, revise, poo-poo, beat-up on, or otherwise shoot great big holes all the way thru my mental meanderings.

Ok, I know it look like a lumber rack. But think big steel like 4-6 inch hollow stock either round tube or square with gussets all over the place. This does not need to be overly heavy. I see cages like this on vehicles that are removable by use of a pinned/flange or clip. (see photo) This is how certain structural parts of construction cranes are put together and these same assemblies are lifting ten times their own weight all day, every day.

One advantage to a removable ROP might be when your Deuce will be on parade and we don't want or need this kind of protection. Some may want it in place if they decide to go off roading or even interstate travelling.

IMHO; what has to done is to submit these and other ideas to people who engineer this kind of stuff. In other words, people who have the knowledge about what kind and size of material will reasonably withstand roll over type forces, etc., ( at this time I do not have contacts or access to these type of folks but it seems that many here on SS do)

I have no doubt that in the MV community, there is enough interest in something like this that it could be economically mass produced if there are enough initial orders. Customized variations could also be made from this basic idea to fit other MV's...

 

[KsM715]

That would need alot of cross bracing and some sort of support at the a pillar (windshield). In a highway roll that point would probably cave in.

 

[Ratch]

I heard about this wreck on another forum. Terrible thing to have happen, regardless of our hobby. It's sad to read his recovery thread.

On the rops;
I've never seen a bent railroad rail... If weight's not an issue, welded rail's in the proper configuration would probably have no problem holding up the truck and at least somewhat withstand a violent rollover.
Something else to consider is how complex a roll cage do we want? If there's some possibility of survival in a rollover, a poorly built rops might reduce survivability if it caves in on the driver where the driver may have been otherwise clear.


Regarding the lawyer thing (sorry to bring it back up, but I think the point that started it was completely overlooked), I'd think the fear is not of the ambulance chaser, but of the perpetrator/defendant's lawyer (the guy that caused the wreck). Claiming the victim was in a vehicle unsuitable for highway use therefore his client is not liable for the fatality. I think that was the original person's fear of admitting there's a safety issue here. But if the fear is that the DOT may decide to ban duece's for lack of roll over protection, the American Motorcycle Association and convertible drivers everywhere should be ready to fight. It's a hogwash argument. The victim had every right in the world to have a reasonable expectation of safety, and since the duece generally doesn't go more than 55mph (I don't own one to verify that, though), he can be reasonably presumed to have been operating it safely. Other drivers are not expected to create exessively unsafe conditions.
Personally, I always figured there were lawyers that legitimately wanted to help people, just few and far between. But my brother's in law school and he's one of the most manipulative and dishonest people I know, so I have even more distrust of lawyers now than I did 3 years ago.

 

[kastein]

On the rops;
I've never seen a bent railroad rail... If weight's not an issue, welded rail's in the proper configuration would probably have no problem holding up the truck and at least somewhat withstand a violent rollover.

I like the way you think, but this is probably not a winner simply due to weight. Railroad rails weigh in at anywhere from 80 to 150 lbs per yard. Figuring a bare minimum of 6 feet used per corner, 4 corners, plus 3 foot sidebars and 6 foot crossbars, you have 14 yards of rail (anywhere from 1120 to 2100 lbs) - and that's with no triangulation. Add in the difficulties of welding such thick material (rails are generally welded in place using a thermite process) and it becomes even more difficult.

 

[73m819]

I heard about this wreck on another forum. Terrible thing to have happen, regardless of our hobby. It's sad to read his recovery thread.

On the rops;
I've never seen a bent railroad rail... If weight's not an issue, welded rail's in the proper configuration would probably have no problem holding up the truck and at least somewhat withstand a violent rollover.
Something else to consider is how complex a roll cage do we want? If there's some possibility of survival in a rollover, a poorly built rops might reduce survivability if it caves in on the driver where the driver may have been otherwise clear.


Regarding the lawyer thing (sorry to bring it back up, but I think the point that started it was completely overlooked), I'd think the fear is not of the ambulance chaser, but of the perpetrator/defendant's lawyer (the guy that caused the wreck). Claiming the victim was in a vehicle unsuitable for highway use therefore his client is not liable for the fatality. I think that was the original person's fear of admitting there's a safety issue here. But if the fear is that the DOT may decide to ban duece's for lack of roll over protection, the American Motorcycle Association and convertible drivers everywhere should be ready to fight. It's a hogwash argument. The victim had every right in the world to have a reasonable expectation of safety, and since the duece generally doesn't go more than 55mph (I don't own one to verify that, though), he can be reasonably presumed to have been operating it safely. Other drivers are not expected to create exessively unsafe conditions.
Personally, I always figured there were lawyers that legitimately wanted to help people, just few and far between. But my brother's in law school and he's one of the most manipulative and dishonest people I know, so I have even more distrust of lawyers now than I did 3 years ago.

First------rail does bend, crack, chip, ect.
second --this argument could be used in accidents involving illegals,

 

[Ratch]

I like the way you think, but this is probably not a winner simply due to weight. Railroad rails weigh in at anywhere from 80 to 150 lbs per yard. Figuring a bare minimum of 6 feet used per corner, 4 corners, plus 3 foot sidebars and 6 foot crossbars, you have 14 yards of rail (anywhere from 1120 to 2100 lbs) - and that's with no triangulation. Add in the difficulties of welding such thick material (rails are generally welded in place using a thermite process) and it becomes even more difficult.

Ok, I guess weight's going to be an issue there... I didn't realize it was that heavy. And welding...

 

[A/C Cages]

Ok. My race car guys looked at it today, (too drunk on 4th party) lol
They came up with the idea that inner cab roll cage would not hold up due to weight ratio per size of tubing needed and allowable room in the cab being so small.
There best idea would be to rear roll bar behind the cab. They designed my headache rack to double as roll over protection. In the pic you will notice none of the gussets or expanded sheet metal is on it yet. 4x2x1/4 square tubing will hold up the weight if crossmemberd correctly.

Dave Kay, the only problem with that is its not roll protection but makes a great tree branch protection. Its why fire depts use them.

Best bet, dont roll it????????

Round or square tubing of 4" with 1/4" wall is the least you can use. There is nothing they said can be done within the cab. Sorry

They will rethink about it, once they get some ideas, I will let you know.

 

[yeager1]

So long story short: All safety devices are built to provide an increased level of safety for a given hazard level. No system provides complete safety in all scenarios- roll bars included. This is why people still get injured or killed on the job and on the road.

So what you need to ask yourself is- What level of hazard do I want to be protected from? If it is going off the highway and rolling down an embankment at 60mph, then good luck cause it’s not easy in a 13,000 lbs truck. But I bet most rollovers of these vehicles are at fairly slow speeds off-road, and include people traversing a ditch or driving on a side hill at 15 mph of less. I still think the best option for most people is a simple ROPS system (like I mocked up) that have been used on tractors for 20+ years have proven to work at just that, low speed rolls, and still provides increased protection in any roll over. The second option is a bed mount (tied into the frame) system like what has been used on foreign deuces; this would work for somewhat higher speeds. In cab systems are just not feasible from a strength/space standpoint IMO.
I’m not trying to put down any of the other ideas listed, just trying to point out that most people need to decide what level of protection they really need and can afford. Let’s face it, anything is way better than a sheet metal roof or soft top.

 

[KsM715]

They will rethink about it, once they get some ideas, I will let you know.

Be sure to let them know about the flex built into the frame of the deuce.

Im betting that when its all said and done, in order to protect the cab and still alow the cab to flex the exo cage will be so far away from the cab and will have so much tubing that it will severly take away from the asthetics of the truck that it wouldnt be any fun any more. It would just look like some overgrown rock buggy.

 

[FASTNOVA]

I saw this on a MTVR. I would think that this should offer some type of protection.

 

[Dave Kay]

I saw this on a MTVR. I would think that this should offer some type of protection.

Wish that pic was a bit larger, but from what I can see it looks like the cab-body of that vehicle is made pretty hefty. Maybe that's the whole key here; reinforce the existing cabs of older Deuces.

BTW; what is MTVR?

 

[FASTNOVA]

Right here.
Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[OverSizeHeavyHauler]

At the Derailment outfit i worked for we used 90,000lb sidebooms, and I welded up some loading ramps out of 2' Square tube, 1/4" wall, and it held up awesomely. The most your ever gonna get a deuce up to before you start messin with DOT is 26K...2"X 1/4" WILL easily support that weight. After I saw the photographs or Toms A3, I knew it was time.
Tie the tubing from the front corners of the cab and on thru the back wall..the center of the downleg is pinned for egress/ingress... Headache with the centers going into the bed and down to the frame with 1" G8 before and aft of the gusseted leg plate. Line the edge of the cab wall with the same stuff Peterbilt uses for their cab door edges, and you have a decently sealed hole. (Not Water Proof, just resistant.)

Heck, you could even use 3" Diam 1/4" wall. I prefer the square tube for clean cut lines.

It didnt take but 30mins and a graph paper notebook to come up with mine.

 

[usmctopgun]

Right here.
Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We had a 155mm flip over one time during a night op using NVGs, thing had so much power the driver dragged it several hundred yards and never realized it. Awesome trucks.

 

[OverSizeHeavyHauler]

Whooops! Didnt have 2nd page with me, forgot to add, the frame to bottom of cab front supports.

3/8" plate or 1/2" if ya want, or even 6" strap iron, the angle from frame to cab bottom was like 25*degrees if I remember... gusset the frame mount plate. Im using 3 little gussets in triangular deal. But, once again, Im using 1" Gr8 hardware.

Once I get it done, my plane is to mark the bolts with a paint pen, take it out and really try and see if the twist will back the bolts out.. So, tighten em up, test em, then re-tighten them. Maybe even check the torque they'll be at.

 

[jesusgatos]

Haven't been online much lately. Don't know anything about what, but gather that someone got hurt/killed? Sorry to hear that. Here's a link to an old thread about rollcages. There's been a LOT of bad information posted in this thread, and I'd like to help get this back on track. Please start by reading my previous posts on this topic (I posted some thoughts about adapting rollcages to these vehicles, along with some screen captures and CAD files). Don't mean to come off like a know-it-all, but this is what I do for a living. If anybody would like some help designing rollover protection for these vehicles, I'm down to help. Will be building a rollcage for mah deuce as soon as I get it back from sandblast/paint.

 

[KsM715]

The most your ever gonna get a deuce up to before you start messin with DOT is 26K....

Thats static. Put 26k in motion and that number goes way up. Put it in an instant 25-30g load and that number goes way up. I can slowly put my full weight (180lbs) on a pop can and it will support me. Stomp on it and...........well you know how it ends.

 

[FASTNOVA]

If a roll cage is built would it be better to go square tubing or round of the same thickness?

 

[FASTNOVA]

Never mind, I read a thread from previous post by jesusgatos.

 

[Dave Kay]

Saw this online--- something along the lines of what I have in mind for ROP

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLGxVZrlt78&feature=related[/media]