Deuce Jackshaft

[GoHot229]

Has anyone got a picture of the Deuce jackshaft handy, from a resto or something or frame-off that they could post here. And I understand to tighten the bolts on one, it's advisable to pull the tunnel? and folding seat. Are the bolts that come stock good or would you advise something different ....nyloc's ? Anti-seize or loc-tight? Thanks .......Rich

 

[Deuce-and-a-Matt]

I am going by your context clues here and from experience that you may be having trouble accessing the bolts? They are all up in there.........I just recently removed one myself and the way I did it was I chocked ALL wheels, put everything in neutral and turned the shaft taking them out one by one. I hope that helps. Matt

 

[jasonjc]

Best to get new nuts if they are lose. I think they call them a stover nut or some thing like that. It's the kind of nut that the top has some dents in it pointing to the inside. They are a one time use typ nut. Ny-locs will losen up. And as mat said it easy to get to from the bottom side. Block the wheels, leave both the trans and trafer in N and you can spin the shaft easy. You may want to use a pray bar to hold the shaft in place to tighten the bolt/nuts. If you still need a pic I've got the tunnel open and have some of those nuts if you need a pic of them.

 

[Stretch44875]

I was even able to get an impact on them from the bottom. Have to have just the right length extension and angle. Putting the transmission in 1st gear does a nice job of locking the shaft. Make sure the engine stop is out, just in cast your super strong and can spin the engine over.

 

[scooter01922]

1/2 20 thread bolts i wanna say 1 3/4 long? Uh anyway. Don't use nylocks you want the all metal deformed thread locknuts, grade 8 on the nut and the bolt. Its a bit of a pain to get to them but no need to remove the tunnel or anything. The way i did it is this. Chocked everything up, trans and transfer in neutral. Rotate shaft so you have one bolt at the bottom, back in gear. remove bolt, repeat. I see no point in struggling to keep the shaft in place while tightening or looseing when the truck does a dandy job. Forget the tourque value on those but its more than i think any of us can muster with and hand tool you can get to those with.

 

[Speddmon]

I must be the only one here who thinks it better to pull the tunnel and passenger seat out to do this job.

I agree fully with everybody else, pull the old bolts out one at a time and clean them good to get the grease and oil off of them, replace the nuts with new ones...I believe these are the nuts everybody recommends using...Fastenal Link. When I did mine, I also used a bit of the "blue" loc-tite for added security (this way I never have to do it again). If you are going to use the loc-tite you need to be sure to have the bolt and nut free of grease and dirt, or the loc-tite is worthless.

The only reason I think it's easier to pull the tunnel and passenger seat is that you can get to the bolts and nust easier and apply the proper leverage to the bolts to get the proper torque on them too. It only takes a few minutes to pull the tunnel and seat out, so why not go the extra step?

 

[scooter01922]

Negatory speddmon, these would be the correct ones. Product Details | 1/2-20 Grade 9 Yellow Zinc All Metal Top Lock Nut | Fastenal
i Have just a little bit of experience with the fastenal computer system...
Now why exactly my text went all funky and underlined....no idea. Thats the link for a 10 pack but they sell them singly.

 

[DieselBob]

Oh great, another project.

 

[Deuce-and-a-Matt]

Ohh maybe you guys have more equipment in the way up under your trucks or somethin'. I was able to get to em real easy I just got under the truck with a standard ratchet and boxed end wrench and loosened em up one by one. Chock ALL wheels for "OCD" safety, loosen one ask buddy to neutral everything, spin shaft, re-engage so shaft is locked and repeat until done. Took like 6 min. Hey atleast it's one of those things that not only have more than one way to do the same job but yet also both ways are relatively easy. You ever get those that are real PITA and time consuming yet should be soooo simple?

 

[Jake0147]

If somebody more knowledgeable than me interprets this differently I'm all ears, but it looks to me like a standard grade five bolt with an ungraded crimp lock nut.

5306-00-752-1001

7521001 U S ARMY TANK AUTOMOTIVE COMMAND AMSTA-IM-MM 19207
80P1 DIAMOND REO TRUCK CO 56442
913491 SASCO INC CANADIAN DIV 58275
5306007521001 E C A ETABLISSEMENT CENTRAL DES APPROVISIONNEMENTS SCY13


THREAD CLASS 3A
THREAD DIRECTION RIGHT-HAND
THREAD LENGTH 0.803 INCHES MINIMUM AND 0.823 INCHES MAXIMUM
FASTENER LENGTH 1.490 INCHES MINIMUM AND 1.510 INCHES MAXIMUM
NOMINAL THREAD DIAMETER 0.500 INCHES
THREAD QUANTITY PER INCH 20
HARDNESS RATING 24.0 ROCKWELL C MINIMUM AND 34.0 ROCKWELL C MAXIMUM OVERALL
MATERIAL STEEL COMP 3135 OVERALL
MATERIAL DOCUMENT AND CLASSIFICATION SAE ASSN STD SINGLE MATERIAL RESPONSE OVERALL
THREAD SERIES DESIGNATOR UNF



5310-00-062-4954

H55-8CW ALCOA GLOBAL FASTENERS INC. DBA KAYNAR PRODUCTS 15653
H55-8CW ALCOA GLOBAL FASTENERS INC. DBA ALCOA FASTENING SY 75237
MS21045-8 NATIONAL AEROSPACE STANDARDS COMMITTEE AEROSPACE I 80205
MS21045-8 MILITARY STANDARDS PROMULGATED BY MILITARY DEPARTM 96906
F1801-080 MACLEAN-FOGG COMPANY DEL DBA MAC LEAN-ESNA 019L2
F52MXE-820 MACLEAN-FOGG COMPANY DEL DBA MAC LEAN-ESNA 019L2
S862TN5-820 NORTHROP GRUMMAN SYSTEMS CORPORATION 26512
27FH-820 SPS TECHNOLOGIES LLC DBA AEROSPACE DIVISION DIV AE 56878
F1801-080 HARVARD INDUSTRIES INC 72962
YE3184 LAMSON AND SESSIONS CO THE 75497

THREAD CLASS 3B
THREAD DIRECTION RIGHT-HAND
NUT STYLE A12 HEXAGON
THREAD SERIES UNJF
THREAD QUANTITY PER INCH 20
HARDNESS RATING NOT RATED
NOMINAL THREAD SIZE 0.500 INCHES
MATERIAL STEEL OVERALL
SURFACE TREATMENT CADMIUM OVERALL
SURFACE TREATMENT DOCUMENT AND CLASSIFICATION QQ-P-416,TYPE 2,CLASS 3 FED SPEC SINGLE TREATMENT RESPONSE OVERALL
​

This is the nut that Alcoa provides. No luck finding pics from a specific supplier of the bolt.

 

[Deuce-and-a-Matt]

I believe that you are true Jake, it does say there on the 11th line: between 24 and 34 Rockwell hardness. Every chart I have ever read puts that as grade 5 territory. Hmmm nearabout every other bolt I have taken off a military truck so far has had six "hash" marks indicative of grade eight though. If I remember right its something like 35 to 40 rockwell rating or something like that for grade 8? I sure as sh*t ain't no expert though lol.

 

[BugEyeBear]

Better to use the higher strength bolt whenever in doubt.....

 

[GoHot229]

Well guys, I was heeding Speddmon's advise actually. I'm getting to be not so agile as I once was, 58, and figured it a good call to go ahead and pull the seat and tunnel to ALSO have a look at the stuff in close proximity and give attention to whatever might need attention. I havn't got a problem with anything as far as I know....throughout the entire truck, but have time to check stuff now. You see, I'm planning to go to Yellowstone this next spring and drive the Deuce, build a type II hitch and towbar and pull my Dodge Van with . I was just hopeing for a pic, or a refference to one. Thanks guys, I have gleaned a bit of important info.... ....................................................................................Rich.........

Speddmon was also mentioning cleaning before useing the blue loc-tite. During my time removeing various coatings ie. clearcoat and powder paint along with rust and such, typically my last step is de-contaminating the piece, or rather removing the acids, cleaners, or remover chemicals, in which the last three baths are first water then acitone then to preserve before painting WD40. In this instance I'll use a degreaser and a final bath in acitone to squeaky-clean the nuts and bolts, bypassing the WD all togather, and afterwards hit it with a bit of spraypaint for corrosian resistance.

 

[Speddmon]

The blue loc-tite isn't a NECESSARY step, but I don't want to have to go through the hassle of re-tightening those bolts again. I always use a touch of the blue stuff on things of this nature. DO NOT use the RED or you will be burning the bolts off with a torch!

Ohh maybe you guys have more equipment in the way up under your trucks or somethin'. I was able to get to em real easy I just got under the truck with a standard ratchet and boxed end wrench and loosened em up one by one. Chock ALL wheels for "OCD" safety, loosen one ask buddy to neutral everything, spin shaft, re-engage so shaft is locked and repeat until done. Took like 6 min. Hey atleast it's one of those things that not only have more than one way to do the same job but yet also both ways are relatively easy. You ever get those that are real PITA and time consuming yet should be soooo simple?

I don't think it's because I have any more stuff under my truck. I just feel that this is a fairly important piece to have tightened properly (you certainly do not want this thing flying off when you are going down the road). And the length of my torque wrench does not allow me to get it on the bolts and nuts and get any kind of swing to do the job right...so I elected to pull the tunnel.

 

[rosco]

This is a common problem, found in other vehicles too. For instance the M211 & M37s are the same way. Replace the nuts with Grade "c", or equivelant. if you replace the bolts, its very important to have the shoulder smooth (no threads) in the area where the flanges meet. I have done this so many times - the red locktite looks good to me!

Lee in Alaska

 

[Jake0147]

Hmmm nearabout every other bolt I have taken off a military truck so far has had six "hash" marks indicative of grade eight though.

I won't say every bolt... But every driveshaft bolt on mine APPEARS to be grade eight and uses the nuts that Speddmon linked to. I don't consider myself an expert but I have SOME specific knowledge of fasteners. I am kind of beginning to wonder if the "upgrade" to grade eight may actually be part of the problem... Very often on shorter or high vibration fasteners that must be of a high hardness, there is a "bushing" or "spacer tube" installed so that the overall length of the bolt can be greater to allow it to properly "lock" into place. Length versus hardness, the overall yield has a big effect on the performance of the bolt, I just don't fully understand how it applies in this application.
But there's also a lock nut here. That SHOULD eliminate this. OTOH, if the torque were specified correctly, it would not come loose with a plain old nut screwed onto it. Loctite, lock nuts, tie wires and the like should not be needed. Many imported cars and trucks have this. Short hard bolts (small ones at that) with no lock mechanism, and their driveshaft's don't loosen up.
Thus, with my own knowledge of this stuff I have talked circles around myself, and have no real conclusion as of yet, except that the jackshaft (and it's companion flanges) are overkill and there IS an underlying issue somewhere that makes this such a common problem.

 

[1stDeuce]

Jake0147 is right on. Using a higher tensile strength "harder" bolt will require greater length in tension to be able to hold torque as well, locknut or not. A bolt is generally NOT supposed to be operating in shear, but rather in tension. The clamp load applied is supposed to provide the path for force, or in this case, rotational torque to be transferred... Bolts are sized by the clamp load needed, not the shear strength as a rule.

When I got it, my deuce had all 8 bolts loose, and had for a while. All were grade 8 fine thread with the proper crimp locknut still in place. Out of necessity of not having similar replacements, I used Grade 5 bolts, with the proper long shoulder, and added a lock washer to each side to get an extra 1/4" in tension to help keep them tight. I torqued them to 80 ftlbs per a couple of charts I found online. I messed up the threads a little on the end of each with a hammer to prevent the non-locknuts from getting completely tossed.

After thinking about it some, I decided not to mess with it other than to check them every so often... Fine vs course thread is kinda irrelavent, as the proper torque for each results in the same achieved clamp load. I suppose fine thread would hold torque longer as the nut backed off, which may be why the mil used them. ??

So far so good, with about 500 miles on it. I'll be checking torque again soon, but they still don't budge at 80 ftlbs.

I'm not telling you to go replace your bolts right now, but I am saying that the grade 5 bolts are working on my truck so far, and they're holding torque without locknuts or locktite.

C

 

[frank8003]

Has anyone got a picture of the Deuce jackshaft handy, from a resto or something or frame-off that they could post here. And I understand to tighten the bolts on one, it's advisable to pull the tunnel? and folding seat. Are the bolts that come stock good or would you advise something different ....nyloc's ? Anti-seize or loc-tight? Thanks .......Rich

#8
only took 7 years but look in here..................
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?162648-M35a2-Transfer-Case-Lever-Movement

 

[Jericho]

You can do it just fine from the bottom and don't even need ten ton jack-stands ,, plenty of room, Gee on the bolts Fine thread has more shear strength, Course thread has more linear strength T.O. 1-1- 1A General hardware table, the load on the jack shaft flange is mostly shear. BUT I use A.N. aeronautical hardware, use the metal "deformed"head lock nuts AN, if you don't have a jet engine shop bench stock use Grade eight "AMERICAN BOLTS " stay away from Chinese hardware, it aint so hard . you don't need any loc tite on them , they wont come loose torque german style Gute en TITE 1 , works on Tf 39 , C 5 A CSD drives ! (and my deuce )

 

[frank8003]

Is the jackshaft supposed to be going around and around with clutch out, transmission in neutral and the transfer case in neutral? Clutch in and it stops going around. Yes I sought an answer here and searched to no avail.
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