Deuce tow rating

[Gunfreak25]

The Military ratings for these trucks were based on practicality. A Deuce can haul 25,000lbs in the bed but it's not going to move worth a darn on any kind of hill. So the ratings shown on the data plate are what the Military found through extensive R&D to be the max load the vehicle can sustain whilst still maintaining it's status of practicality.

Also, don't kid yourself. During the 1950's the words "on road" in the Military's book could have literally meant in many cases a bulldozer making something that resembled a path for vehicles to travel on.

 

[panshark]

He'll you're telling me a f-450 should tow more than a m35a2?

I'll be your huckleberry.

If it's new, it should. A modern turbo diesel pickup has way more power than my M35A2. You step on the gas, and you get acceleration. A turbo on a multifuel engine just isn't going to match modern power when you have to slow down for a turn, and then pull a long, steep grade when you're fully loaded. I know this from experience.

Can a duece be modified to pull a significantly heavier load? I'm sure it can. Swap out some of those drum brakes for discs, replace the engine and transmission, install a gooseneck hitch. The list goes on and on. By the way, what tires are we specifying our tractor-pull champion to be wearing? The standard 9x20's? How does the 9x20 rating compare to that of an F-450?

 

[JH1]

Low tow rating of deuce: why

I'll weigh in with a few reasons. One; the brakes are tiny. Two, they all operate off of one system, so if there is a leak anywhere in the hydraulics, all brakes (every single one) become ineffective at once. Three, look at the physics of the lever arm holding the rear hitch. The hitch is located a few feet behind the rear axle trunion. That is an important limitation, because that lever arm can cause the front end to lift if you have a heavy tongue trailer and you hit a bump. The heavy tongue forces down hard on the hitch, and the several feet long distance between the trunion point (where the dual axles pivot) and the hitch act as a lever arm, much like a kid's teeter-totter. The hitch is forced down and the front of the truck is forced up. Kinda hard to steer at that point. Take note of where the pintle hitch is located on dump trucks. It is smack up tight against the rear axle, so if you press down hard on it, all you are doing is compressing the rear axles, with very little upward motion of the front end.

Yet another reason for the low tow rating is the hitch itself. Commercial hitches have 4 massive bolts affixing it solidly to the frame. Military vehicle hitches have to articulate for rough ground, so the pintle twists and is attached to the frame by the one (large) nut on the inside of the frame. If that one nut fails, the entire hitch fails. Commercial trucks divide the load over 4 large bolts, so if one goes, there are three more.

Jim

 

[Gunfreak25]

The hitch theory is correct. It's a beefy hitch, but lacks redundancy in the form of 1 single nut holding it to the crossmember.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

I'll weigh in with a few reasons. One; the brakes are tiny. Two, they all operate off of one system, so if there is a leak anywhere in the hydraulics, all brakes (every single one) become ineffective at once. Three, look at the physics of the lever arm holding the rear hitch. The hitch is located a few feet behind the rear axle trunion. That is an important limitation, because that lever arm can cause the front end to lift if you have a heavy tongue trailer and you hit a bump. The heavy tongue forces down hard on the hitch, and the several feet long distance between the trunion point (where the dual axles pivot) and the hitch act as a lever arm, much like a kid's teeter-totter. The hitch is forced down and the front of the truck is forced up. Kinda hard to steer at that point. Take note of where the pintle hitch is located on dump trucks. It is smack up tight against the rear axle, so if you press down hard on it, all you are doing is compressing the rear axles, with very little upward motion of the front end.

Yet another reason for the low tow rating is the hitch itself. Commercial hitches have 4 massive bolts affixing it solidly to the frame. Military vehicle hitches have to articulate for rough ground, so the pintle twists and is attached to the frame by the one (large) nut on the inside of the frame. If that one nut fails, the entire hitch fails. Commercial trucks divide the load over 4 large bolts, so if one goes, there are three more.

Jim

Great point! I too wondered why the tow rating is so little.

 

[EWhytsell]

Good point about what the military considers a road. Adding to that, the military also didn't plan to go faster than 48mph according to my dash plate so the brakes and engine power were built with that in mind.

 

[LongueCarabine]

OK, I'm going to follow up on this, since it seems to be the most relevant topic I could find.

My sister just bought a camp out in coastal Louisiana, just before Hurricane Isaac came through. The camp is a 40 ft Jacyo Bungalow BHS trailer, parked on a covered slab. In this area, a lot of people have resorted to this in order to not lose their camps. You just tow it out if a storm comes around.

Well, she hadn't had it more than a couple weeks when the storm warnings went up. The previous owner still had his truck and towed it out for her. The storm didn't hit the area, but you can never tell when you won't be so lucky.

It is a 10,500 pound trailer, double axles, with a 2 - 5/16" ball hitch. Even has a load leveling system.

Would it be possible for the Deuce to safely tow this trailer if it had to be moved to higher ground? I know it would require some work to step down the Deuce's 24v to 12v for the lights, but that doesn't seem to be a major problem.

I would have to purchase or fabricate a proper hitch, but other than that, it doesn't seem like a huge project.

Not looking to tow on a regular basis, and the trip would likely be less than 40 miles at most.

LC

 

[quickfarms]

Is the weight of the trailer empty or gvw?

Curt makes two good receiver hitches that fit the truck, but you will have to drill some holes in the frame.

There are other hitches that several members have fabricated for the deuce but I do not know if they are rated for the weight.

The duece is rated for 10,000 pounds towing.

You forgot to add the electric brake controller. It is necessary to make sure the trailer brakes work,

 

[LongueCarabine]

That's the weight of the trailer as is. The specs state that you can actually put around 1500 pounds in the trailer as "cargo" and that makes the GVWR around 12000 pounds.

I need to look at the specs again, but pretty sure the trailer has electric brakes. There is only one plug, which controls the brakes and the lights.

Would have to make sure that all are powered by whatever I can come up with regarding the voltage.

LC

Is the weight of the trailer empty or gvw?

Curt makes two good receiver hitches that fit the truck, but you will have to drill some holes in the frame.

There are other hitches that several members have fabricated for the deuce but I do not know if they are rated for the weight.

The duece is rated for 10,000 pounds towing.

You forgot to add the electric brake controller. It is necessary to make sure the trailer brakes work,

 

[SCSG-G4]

LC, it will probably be fine with the following caveats:
1. max speed of 35 mph.
2. one to two tons of 'something' in the bed of the truck so the truck breaks have something to help dig in.
3. the Curt hitch with the 2.5 inch bar and a 25,000 pound ball.
4. electric brakes on the trailer.

That way the hitch system will be rated for at least 16-18,000 pounds, the trailer can stop itself, and you would be going slow enough to stay out of most trouble.

 

[quickfarms]

LC, it will probably be fine with the following caveats:
1. max speed of 35 mph.
2. one to two tons of 'something' in the bed of the truck so the truck breaks have something to help dig in.
3. the Curt hitch with the 2.5 inch bar and a 25,000 pound ball.
4. electric brakes on the trailer.

That way the hitch system will be rated for at least 16-18,000 pounds, the trailer can stop itself, and you would be going slow enough to stay out of most trouble.

Points one and two are great additions to what I said.

 

[LongueCarabine]

You mean I need to keep my old CJ in the back? LOL.

Well, if it works, I'm all for it.

LC

LC, it will probably be fine with the following caveats:
1. max speed of 35 mph.
2. one to two tons of 'something' in the bed of the truck so the truck breaks have something to help dig in.
3. the Curt hitch with the 2.5 inch bar and a 25,000 pound ball.
4. electric brakes on the trailer.

That way the hitch system will be rated for at least 16-18,000 pounds, the trailer can stop itself, and you would be going slow enough to stay out of most trouble.

 

[LongueCarabine]

Looking at the Curt site, it appears I would need to use one of the Class 5 hitches rated for commercial duty (18,000 lbs). They are the only ones with 2.5" hitch tubes. There are 7 hitches listed in that section and all appear to be for Ford, Chevy or Dodge pickups.

Is there a certain model I would need that is the correct width for the Deuce frame? Or would this be a custom application?

LC

 

[quickfarms]

Look at the 15605, it is for the standard 34" frame. This frame with is standard on the heavy duty pickups and larger trucks up to and including semi's.

Right now it is 175.07 on amazon including the shipping.

A piece of 2" receiver tube makes a good adaptor to use 2" hitches for lighter trailers

 

[jimk]

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[LongueCarabine]

I'm not too concerned as long as I can get the proper hitch for towing. In the coastal part of the state, it is horribly flat, which is why hurricanes cause so much damage here.

When we recovered my brother's M109, I was able to maintain 45 mph the whole way home, except for the one bridge we had to cross at Pineville over the Red River. Granted, that was using the proper towbar, but I didn't have any problems maintaining 45 mph.

There is only one bridge to cross over the Intracoastal Canal where my sisters camp is, but it is a little steeper than the one in Pineville. I'll just take it nice and slow. The road to the coast is narrow and not in the best shape in some places.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

LC

ETA: I'm going to have to see how high the trailer jack can raise the camper. Still going to have to fabricate some sort of frame to get the hitch low enough for the trailer, I think. The Deuce frame is pretty high off the ground compared to regular pickups.

 

[Goose2448]

LC, I have a Draw-Tight Hitch on my F550 that is rated at 12K and 16K with a load distributing hitch. I think it was about $500 installed with combo 8 ton hitch with raiser and brake controller. Just giving you another option.

As far as the low rating on the deuce, brakes, brakes, and brakes! Its the same reason the F250 and F550 are rated different. They have the same engine and trans, but axle's and brakes are different. The 250 is rated for like 18K while the 550 can be up to 32K. There is a huge difference in brake size and power and the Axle size and strength.

We have a 2006 Chevy 3500 with duals, Duramax, and an Allison that we have tagged at 34,999 so we can pull our 10 ton equipment trailers. We almost never load them that heavy, but it can handle the weight, with the brakes set right. This is with a goose neck though, we can only do about 7 tons on the Pintle hitch trailers, because of pulling the front end up off the ground. Let me tell you that is not a nice feeling.

 

[Karl kostman]

I had at one point wondered about why the Deuce tow capacity seemed so low, but then as I learned more about the truck I began to understand. 1. reason is brakes not a lot of brake pad area and single circuit. 2. 134 HP an I understand that can be dealt with in many ways, BUT its in normal form a 134 HP engine. 3. lets say that you hook 15K behind the truck, your trailer has air brakes and is hooked to the Deuce, BUT you have a problem and you hit somebody or something, I dont care whos fault it was or what the circumstances were YOU are at fault because you exceeded the towable weight limit on the truck! I have not found a time where the need is greater than the risk! but that is your choice.
KK

 

[saddamsnightmare]

September 3rd, 2012.

Ferro:

Quit pulling these guys legs...that 150 tons of locomotive & stone cars on roller bearing trucks, warm, should require between 600 and 900 lbs to pull at worst cases on the level...stopping them once you get them rolling's the problem....I used to pull a 47,000 pound N&W C7P cabin car with an F250 in 2WD, the problem was always having an alert brakeman to wind the hand brakes up, as the F250 was never gonna stop that load without major damage... A deuce is like a Unimog, it will pull down houses in low gear...they just aren't made for pulling at very high speeds.
If you want a puller, Get a Mercedes Benz Zetros...

 

[SCSG-G4]

LC,

Guys in my local MV club are cutting up a deuce frame (from a scrapped truck - you could use the cut off piece from a bobber) in two foot sections to weld/bolt below the frame on deuces that they want to tow trailers with. Then they will mount the hitch and it will wind up only about 14-16 inches off the ground. With a two inch drop bar that would only be a foot off the pavement for the bottom of the ball - how low do you want to go?