Duals, Super Singles and other Deuce ???'s

[Deuce-bigalo]

Ok, I went back and checked about 8 pages of postings in here and I would like to please know:


What are the advantages & disadvantages of having Dual rear wheels or Super Singles? Is it all just looks, or does the difference show elsewhere? Can you go from super singles to duals or duals to super singles?



Also, if you buy a Deuce with a hard-top, can you make it interchangeable into a soft top? Do both remove easily for summertime driving??



If you buy a deuce w/w and there are no PTO controls (in cab) how hard is it to put them back in? Or the PTO unit itself?



Just wondering these interesting questions as I gear up for more serious looking and potential purchases. They will play a factor in what I am looking at and what the hidden factors are may sway me to something I wouldn't have initially thought of.



All of your help and expertise is greatly appreciated! :yeah:

Thanks!



John

 

[M1075]

John-

I'll give you my 2 cents as I have successfully converted from duals to super singles. My rims are 20x10 double beadlock 2-piece and my tires are Michelin XML 395/85R20 (white deuce with red tanks in the pics). Here are some of the advantages I see with my set up (your mileage may vary):

1. Increased ground clearance. I think I measured 24" clearance at the running board and 14" at the front differential.
2. Increased road speed. The calcuations show close to 65 MPH, but I haven't confirmed.
3. Tubeless radial design. Plug a flat on the truck, if needed.
4. Runflat/low pressure ability. With the beadlocks, a flat tire will not come off the rim.
5. Improved off-road traction. Nearly 16" wide with 1" lugs on improved tread design.
6. Wider stance, better stability. See the pics.
7. Self service tire mounting. Two guys, an impact gun, and 30 minutes, maybe less.
8. 14ply/18 ply versus 8 ply on NDTs. More tread, more life, less flats.

I don't know if that captures everything, but the other thing I keep in mind is that virtually all vehicles in the Army fleet are now running super singles. The only duals I see are on OTR Freightliners. The main drawbacks I see are the cost, the handling of the heavier tires, and lack of flat protection on the rear.

To run singles or super singles, you flip/rotate the rear hubs (x4) so that the overall axle length of all 3 axles is the same. This is reversible back and forth between singles and duals. Figure at least 30 minutes per hub.


Hope this helps. If not, let me know.

 

[Monster Man]

The army found long ago that singles were vastly superior in offroad capabilities, but kept the duals for load handling ability, and in the event of a flat you could keep going. With the singles, you get the front and rear track in the same line, which helps cause you don't have to break down two different ruts.
Also, the duals tend to float since the tire contact patch is so large, your ground pressure is less. With singles they dig in and you get better traction, and of course modern super singles (not just single rear NDCC's) have vastly superior traction compared to the dual non directionals



I wouldn't shop for a truck based on either configuration, they are easily changed and if you do go singles you might want to keep the duals for future use, in case you have to carry five tons on road.



Yes, hard and soft tops are interchangeable, though I don't think I'd want to take the hard top on and off. I can get my soft top off by myself in about 5 minutes, but it's awkward [female dogin]

 

[Deuce-bigalo]

Well, that definately gives me some food for thought. I like the bigger beefy Super Singles, but I don't like the skinny singles. I didn't know you could change either way. I like the directional's and those big 1" lugs - that whould be real fun in mud! [^] And I think I would like the hard or soft top, either way. The only comparison I can think of is a TJ or a CJ jeep. The hardtop would be heavy and akward to take off, but the soft top is just a matter of rolling it up!



Ok, thanks for the help so far gentlemen!!!



John :scool:

 

[M1075]

DB-

I need to get the trucks washed up and into the sun for some better pics, but here is some food for thought.

 

[Deuce-bigalo]

Wow - those look great with the split rims!! Did you buy or build those? Is it as simple as putting on different rims & tires?

John

 

[M1075]

DB-

I may have confused you. One truck has 900x20s mounted on split rims. The front two tires are radials and the rear 10 are NDCC. The other truck has Michelin XML 395/85R20s mounted on custom made 2-piece double beadlock rims. I could pull the super singles off and run stock 900x20s on split rims in the single configuration really easy. To go back to duals (and keep the tires from sticking out past the bed), I would need to reverse each of the 4 rear hubs (about 30 mins each).

Thanks for the email tip. I have too many trucks to keep up with as it is.

 

[Deuce-bigalo]

Not a problem M1075, I just figured with the fact of the GSA price of $1000 and under, those 5 M35A2's would be a decent find! Is there a manual to switch the hubs or is it just common knowledge? Not having one yet nor having something to refer to it's tough to visualize. I best wait until I OWN one then to see what y'all mean! Did you buy those rims? Are they plenty full? What total does it cost w/ tires (approximately)?

John

 

[M1075]

Someone posted a diagram to show what was involved in flipping the hubs. I think it was monsterman. In this diagram, you are basically flipping part # 22. Notice how the offset would change and adjust the overall width of the axle. Once you open one up, you will get it. I might try to take some pictures when I do the next truck.


Custom beadlock rims run about $250-$300 from USA 6x6 or stazworks. I think widened split rims from AP Bloom are about the same. 47" tires run about $100-$250.

 

[Deuce-bigalo]

Thanks for the priceless information M1075! I have to say - I havr brrn on sevral forums and I have never met a more helpful and interesting buch before! It's really a pleasure to have found this site. Y'all are much appreciated!

John

P.S. - WHen I think of more to ask, I can count on everyone's willingness to advise!

 

[cranetruck]

Here are some images showing the conversion:

http://imageevent.com/cranetruck/m35dualstosinglesconversion

Also, see article in MVM May/June 2000.
I would estimate the time to reverse each hub to be at least an hour or more. The studs have to come out and be reinserted plus the bearing business (cleaning and repacking).
I have been running on singles for 7-8 years and have found no reason to go back to duals.
My tires are 11.00-20 NDCC's. I use chains off-road and in the snow, which are superior to any tire tread. Driving in sand may be the exception, but I have never had the opportunity to try that.
The exact speedo adapter is available for that size tire.

 

[cranetruck]

Oh yeah, one big thing about singles is the improved turning ability.

 

[M1075]

Bjorn-

Nice pics there. They show exactly what you need to (sans the bearings). If you are by yourself, the hour plus estimate you mention would be accurate. I had a helper or two.

 

[Deuce-bigalo]

Wow - well, there is a challenge definately!! I think the would be great though!! I showed pictures of deuces to my fiancee and she has become VERY interested in getting involved - an added bonus, she like the super single setup better than the duals (astetically.) I told her I liked the M109's, showed her a picture and told her we could convert it to a camper, she LOVED the idea. It's great to have her support in this, and she thinks having a couple of them would be great (a Cargo and a M109!)

Thanks, you guys are the best!!!
John

 

[n3uka]

Thanks for asking this question. Great to have it all in one place.
Now to find the $$$ for the swap.

 

[Monster Man]

Wow - well, there is a challenge definately!! I think the would be great though!! I showed pictures of deuces to my fiancee and she has become VERY interested in getting involved - an added bonus, she like the super single setup better than the duals (astetically.) I told her I liked the M109's, showed her a picture and told her we could convert it to a camper, she LOVED the idea. It's great to have her support in this, and she thinks having a couple of them would be great (a Cargo and a M109!)

Thanks, you guys are the best!!!
John

interesting you mention that- one thing deterring me from swapping is the look. YOu can't beat the look of all that rubber on the road, and unless you're running super singles, or have the single backspaced deuce wheels, it looks odd with the tires inboard. The front already looks odd, but to then move the rears in is too much. I think you need to get the wheels right to the outer edge of the bed/front fender


:yeah:

 

[Deuce-bigalo]

Yeah, I am torn too MM, I like the SuperSingle and the duals. I will have to wait until I have one in hand to decide. Question for you though, what prepwork did you do to your deuce before painting? Any at all?

John

 

[Monster Man]

the weekend before I took spray on rust killer and hit some spots, then washed it. That's it, the camo paint goes on pretty good, and the CARC made a good base coat :freaked:

 

[Longhunter7]

MM,

Your Deuce is looking good!

Take a look at the singles on my Deuce. See if you like the singles moved out so they will track with the fronts!

 

[Longhunter7]

MM,

Your Deuce is looking good!

Take a look at the singles on my Deuce. See if you like the singles moved out so they will track with the fronts!