ECO Hubs Who needs 3:07 gears?

[Xengineguy]

I know I’m going to get flamed, but here we go. PLEASE DO NOT ASK ABOUT PURCHASING ACCEPT THRU PM.
I just finished an up grade to my 1078. DELEATED the hub 2:1 gear reduction. I built direct drive hubs that can be
installed in 20 to 30 minutes per wheel. Doesn’t harm the original reduction system,(that can be reinstalled in
20 to 30 min). NO shim changes, ( the shims stay in place).
The difference in noise and power is dramatic. The noise was 45 mph 80 db, 50 83 db, 55 84db, 60 85 db.
Now the noise is 45 69db,50 70db, 55 71db, 61 74db. This may not seem like a lot but it is! I now have wind noise
that I never heard before! I can hear my blinker click at 45 mph or below!
Now the fun stuff. Before the change my 1mph to 60 was 28 seconds! Now it’s 19.78. 1mph to 40 was 14.63
now its 8.75!
Before anyone comments that somehow I’m going to break axles, transfer case, rear end, etc etc. Consider that
all those components are designed to withstand the maximum torque of the engine plus quite a bit more .
The maximum engine torque is the same. The only difference is the torque to the wheel has dropped 50 percent
if you look at the gear ratio only.
In the near future I will test its ability to pull loads on trailer. If I had to guess this will Be much better performance than before. The engine is happy in the power band where it belongs.
I invite anyone with a Lmtv that’s considering a gear swap to come to NE Indiana and drive mine. You will be impressed! Yes I plan on offering a kit to do this conversion, firming up details now. The first run will be 12 sets.
The cost will be around 2200/ 2400.00 Each set. 4 hubs. If there is enough interest…. Sorry for the long post.

Anyone interested in purchasing a set, please post in the sales thread:

ECO DIRECT DRIVE HUBS

Availability to be announced. First 10 sets will be ready soon. Tested on M1078 will fit others also. At the request of moderators please use this thread for sales related questions. Let me know if you have interest in a set by posting here . Thank you! For more information and ordering...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[TheDrashStash]

Nice! What's the top speed now lol

 

[Xengineguy]

Nice! What's the top speed now lol

My tire balance is the limiting factor for now. Might do a land speed record attempt for m1078. NO just kidding….
Im looking for fuel mileage, drivability, and noise reduction. I think I’ve got all three.

 

[coachgeo]

interesting. With that quality work and your user name..... sounds like you are an engineer so went about it with a lot of thought.

Still skeptical though.... How small is the FMTV ring , pinion, thus pumpkin size, compared to say the axles in a Kodiak with same engine and Allison?

 

[serpico760]

I know I’m going to get flamed, but here we go.
I just finished an up grade to my 1078. DELEATED the hub 2:1 gear reduction. I built direct drive hubs that can be
installed in 20 to 30 minutes per wheel. Doesn’t harm the original reduction system,(that can be reinstalled in
20 to 30 min). NO shim changes, ( the shims stay in place).
The difference in noise and power is dramatic. The noise was 45 mph 80 db, 50 83 db, 55 84db, 60 85 db.
Now the noise is 45 69db,50 70db, 55 71db, 61 74db. This may not seem like a lot but it is! I now have wind noise
that I never heard before! I can hear my blinker click at 45 mph or below!
Now the fun stuff. Before the change my 1mph to 60 was 28 seconds! Now it’s 19.78. 1mph to 40 was 14.63
now its 8.75!
Before anyone comments that somehow I’m going to break axles, transfer case, rear end, etc etc. Consider that
all those components are designed to withstand the maximum torque of the engine plus quite a bit more .
The maximum engine torque is the same. The only difference is the torque to the wheel has dropped 50 percent
if you look at the gear ratio only.
In the near future I will test its ability to pull loads on trailer. If I had to guess this will Be much better performance than before. The engine is happy in the power band where it belongs.
I invite anyone with a Lmtv that’s considering a gear swap to come to NE Indiana and drive mine. You will be impressed! Yes I plan on offering a kit to do this conversion, firming up details now. The first run will be 12 sets.
The cost will be around 2200/ 2400.00 Each set. 4 hubs. If there is enough interest…. Sorry for the long post.View attachment 891540View attachment 891541View attachment 891542View attachment 891543View attachment 891544

Would be interested to know the results of towing, up hills, and mpg now. How much would a set for an M1083 be?
100 miles over a mountain and into the desert, 45 miles off-roading in the badlands, and 100 miles back, I got 4.4 mpg, emptied the 54 gallon tank!

 

[GeneralDisorder]

interesting. With that quality work and your user name..... sounds like you are an engineer so went about it with a lot of thought.

Still skeptical though.... How small is the FMTV ring , pinion, thus pumpkin size, compared to say the axles in a Kodiak with same engine and Allison?

The Meritor ring gear is 11.70" in diameter.

For a comparison - Meritor rates our axles at about 14,700 lbs for the front, and 15,000 lbs for the rear. About 7.5 ton's per axle. For the non-armored trucks in civilian ownership, most will be running in the range of 10,000 to 13,000 per axle fully equipped and loaded.

A good comparison here for a non hub-reduction axle would be the Dana S130 - the 14,000 lb variant being equipped with an 11.8" ring gear, and the 16,000 lb variant equipped with a 12.2" ring gear.

So realistically - with them being under loaded for our application and the usual over-engineering that has gone into them - being exceptionally under-rated due to their intended military application..... I have a hard time believing that a tenth of an inch is going to make any real difference.

Oshkosh is still using the same axles that are under our trucks on A1P2's with 4500 lb armored cabs and thousands more lbs of counter-weight in the back and not single F*ck being given or de-rating of their capacity to be seen.

I'm definitely curious about this and would like some data on off-road performance, fuel economy, and of course longevity if that's even any concern..... any insight into calculations done or engineering put into them would be great.

 

[Skyhawk13205]

How the the outer spindle bearing lubercated on the steer axle? Is it oil filled or grease packed?

 

[Keith Knight]

I’ve already done the gear change and went from 4-4.5 mpg to 6 mpg. Top speed was 58 now 74MPH. Just don’t drive that fast….stay under 60MPH for mileage and safety.
Please post top speed and MPG.

 

[DeMilitarized]

Calculated top speed would be 117 mph.......

 

[serpico760]

I’ve already done the gear change and went from 4-4.5 mpg to 6 mpg. Top speed was 58 now 74MPH. Just don’t drive that fast….stay under 60MPH for mileage and safety.
Please post top speed and MPG.

And how much weight you've got loaded into it when you test those!

 

[tennmogger]

A few questions for your very interesting experiment: what are road speeds at the shift points? Does the truck get into both overdrive ratios? Not having to trash a set of reduction gears has big benefits.

I am interested for an LMTV I use as a daily runabout. Hardly ever loaded on only mildly hilly roads.

PS, Coachgeo, sounds familiar, eh?

 

[Skyhawk13205]

Calculated top speed would be 117 mph.......

bummer… still below the factory cruise control speed threshold.

 

[Guruman]

Interested....

And to @coachgeo 's point....

All of the drivetrain components are engineered to take the full HP and torque that the engine delivers (more considering most of our engines are running at lower settings, but newer/different models are running more HP/Torque on the same axles). That's true all the way up to the reduction gears. Everything after that is designed for twice the engine torque output.

Removing the gear reduction does not place more load on the upstream driveline components. They will still only ever see the total engine HP and torque as before... right? And everything after the gear reduction )basically the hub and bearings) will only see half the torque as stock.

On paper this is a win-win.

I suspect the drawbacks are at slow speeds and heavy loads, where that additional torque multiplication is really handy. But for me it might be worth the trade-off. I'm not looking to plow through deep mud, or climb super steep hills offroad. As much as I hate to admit it, but 90% (plus) of my driving will be on the road going somewhere interesting, then maybe 10% easy forest roads to find a out-of-the-way camp spot.


@Xengineguy, I'm down near Muncie, and I have a Son that lives in Angola, so I'm up that way occasionally. If you need another test rig, I'm interested.

 

[Xengineguy]

A few questions for your very interesting experiment: what are road speeds at the shift points? Does the truck get into both overdrive ratios? Not having to trash a set of reduction gears has big benefits.

I am interested for an LMTV I use as a daily runabout. Hardly ever loaded on only mildly hilly roads.

PS, Coachgeo, sounds familiar, eh?

To answer a few of your questions. At this point the truck uses first overdrive only, my speed is limited by tire balance.
I will fix that in the future. I have only done a transmission relearn at this time, the shift points are now very good.
The harsh first shift is gone. I have an appointment to have the shift points set? And speedometer recalibrated this week.
As it is now I would saw most shift points are 1600 to 1750. Absolutely great around town, often turning 1200/1400
at 38 to 40 mph. You push the throttle a little and it accelerates quick without downshifting…. The other nice thing
the Truck coasts awesome! Nice light downshifts as you approach a stop.

Really liked driving my truck before, now I love it! Doing a 30 mile trip before I would think twice, now it’s like let’s go!
Im sure the mileage has improved, but I haven’t checked yet…

 

[Xengineguy]

bummer… still below the factory cruise control speed threshold.

I think I saw in the engine ecu top speed limited to 74mph. Will look again when I get to it.

 

[Xengineguy]

Interested....

And to @coachgeo 's point....

All of the drivetrain components are engineered to take the full HP and torque that the engine delivers (more considering most of our engines are running at lower settings, but newer/different models are running more HP/Torque on the same axles). That's true all the way up to the reduction gears. Everything after that is designed for twice the engine torque output.

Removing the gear reduction does not place more load on the upstream driveline components. They will still only ever see the total engine HP and torque as before... right? And everything after the gear reduction )basically the hub and bearings) will only see half the torque as stock.

On paper this is a win-win.

I suspect the drawbacks are at slow speeds and heavy loads, where that additional torque multiplication is really handy. But for me it might be worth the trade-off. I'm not looking to plow through deep mud, or climb super steep hills offroad. As much as I hate to admit it, but 90% (plus) of my driving will be on the road going somewhere interesting, then maybe 10% easy forest roads to find a out-of-the-way camp spot.


@Xengineguy, I'm down near Muncie, and I have a Son that lives in Angola, so I'm up that way occasionally. If you need another test rig, I'm interested.

You need to contact me and come up and drive this truck. You will be very surprised at the power it has. I think it’s the perfect combination for what you describe and more.

 

[Xengineguy]

How the the outer spindle bearing lubercated on the steer axle? Is it oil filled or grease packed?

The front and rear bearing run with gear lube in them. You fill thru one of the inner bolt holes that attach the hub to the adapter.

 

[Keith Knight]

And how much weight you've got loaded into it when you test those!

When I tested it, it was still just a standard M1078 empty.

 

[Xengineguy]

A little more info for people reading along.
The drive hubs are made from 4140 steel , machined ,Holes drilled then heat treated to 55/60 Rockwell.
Then wire EDM splined at 20 to 30 percent tighter than stock axle/gear fit.. This is a costly way to do it
but provides very consistent parts. The adapter plates are lazer cut, tig welded then the id machined.
After that they go to the CNC and get drilled and drill tapped….
Will post more as I continue to test and enjoy my m1078.

 

[DeMilitarized]

A little more info for people reading along.
The drive hubs are made from 4140 steel , machined ,Holes drilled then heat treated to 55/60 Rockwell.
Then wire EDM splined at 20 to 30 percent tighter than stock axle/gear fit.. This is a costly way to do it
but provides very consistent parts. The adapter plates are lazer cut, tig welded then the id machined.
After that they go to the CNC and get drilled and drill tapped….
Will post more as I continue to test and enjoy my m1078.

At what speed do your tires limit you?