ECO Hubs Who needs 3:07 gears?

[ckouba]

Your torque has been bumped up a little, 860ft/lb peak, I think?

It's whatever the OE tune is for the 2000 M1088A1. I believe it's 330hp and whatever the torque rating is which goes with that output.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

It's whatever the OE tune is for the 2000 M1088A1. I believe it's 330hp and whatever the torque rating is which goes with that output.

3126b and C7 both have the same LMTV and MTV ratings in stock form. LMTV is 275/860, and MTV is 330/860.

I can program 3126b LMTV's to the 330/860 spec, and I can program all the C7's to 330/860 or 370/931. Thus far I have not found a higher power map for the 3126b unfortunately.

 

[GCecchetto]

Okay, I have agreed on a purchase price for a 2008 M1078A1R, flying out to the east coast to inspect and hopefully commit to buying the truck Friday evening. If all goes well, I'll be flying out and driving the truck back across the country in late september. The truck will have Eco Hubs installed for the trip back and I have a couple of questions. Obviously the speedometer will need to be corrected for the new gear ratio. Can anyone provide guidance on the settings as a starting point? I also remember reading something about some programing and/or re-learning of the transmission being required to correct the shift points. Can anyone provide guidance on that? The seller has CAT ET and hopefully will know what needs to be done, but I would like to have an understanding of what should be done so I can make sure everything is good before heading home. Thanks

 

[GCecchetto]

3126b and C7 both have the same LMTV and MTV ratings in stock form. LMTV is 275/860, and MTV is 330/860.

I can program 3126b LMTV's to the 330/860 spec, and I can program all the C7's to 330/860 or 370/931. Thus far I have not found a higher power map for the 3126b unfortunately.

Reluctant to post this here, don't want to redirect the thread again, but my question is somewhat related to Eco Hubs. Is the 370/931 tune safe on a C7?

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Reluctant to post this here, don't want to redirect the thread again, but my question is somewhat related to Eco Hubs. Is the 370/931 tune safe on a C7?

Yes on FML and FMM serial based engines (in FMTVs). I covered this in more detail in a past thread. Good reading.

3126 w/ABS vs 3116

Throwing some first hand info into this conversation.. I've gathered solid info direct from Allison about our 3700SP (note not 3070) in the A1R trucks capable of 370 hp. Our units are rated for a sustained 935 lb-ft input and a 370 hp flash to the C7 gives a 928 lb-ft of torque at peak output...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[Lostchain]

Okay, I have agreed on a purchase price for a 2008 M1078A1R, flying out to the east coast to inspect and hopefully commit to buying the truck Friday evening. If all goes well, I'll be flying out and driving the truck back across the country in late september. The truck will have Eco Hubs installed for the trip back and I have a couple of questions. Obviously the speedometer will need to be corrected for the new gear ratio. Can anyone provide guidance on the settings as a starting point? I also remember reading something about some programing and/or re-learning of the transmission being required to correct the shift points. Can anyone provide guidance on that? The seller has CAT ET and hopefully will know what needs to be done, but I would like to have an understanding of what should be done so I can make sure everything is good before heading home. Thanks

In CAT ET just multiply the old PPM setting by 0.5 and your speedo will be good to go. I wouldn’t waste time trying to reset the transmission shift points. I never did it on mine and it figured it out real quick.

 

[Third From Texas]

Obviously the speedometer will need to be corrected for the new gear ratio. Can anyone provide guidance on the settings as a starting point? I also remember reading something about some programing and/or re-learning of the transmission being required to correct the shift points. Can anyone provide guidance on that? The seller has CAT ET and hopefully will know what needs to be done, but I would like to have an understanding of what should be done so I can make sure everything is good before heading home. Thanks

The C7 speedo gets it's signal from the ECM.

So when they flash your ECM for the higher HP they can also do the speedo.

All done via the CAT ET

 

[GCecchetto]

The C7 speedo gets it's signal from the ECM.

So when they flash your ECM for the higher HP they can also do the speedo.

All done via the CAT ET

Yes, I’m aware of that, was just hoping someone who has already done could share the setting for the speedo as a starting point.

 

[GCecchetto]

In CAT ET just multiply the old PPM setting by 0.5 and your speedo will be good to go. I wouldn’t waste time trying to reset the transmission shift points. I never did it on mine and it figured it out real quick.

View attachment 904226

doh! Makes sense, and I feel stupid now. I knew there was a 2:1 reduction at the hub, so I should have figured that out. I assume correcting the Speedo also addresses the ABS? Thanks for this, it’s exactly what I was looking for. If the truck checked out this weekend, it’s going to feel like forever waiting to pick it up.

 

[GCecchetto]

Yes on FML and FMM serial based engines (in FMTVs). I covered this in more detail in a past thread. Good reading.

3126 w/ABS vs 3116

Throwing some first hand info into this conversation.. I've gathered solid info direct from Allison about our 3700SP (note not 3070) in the A1R trucks capable of 370 hp. Our units are rated for a sustained 935 lb-ft input and a 370 hp flash to the C7 gives a 928 lb-ft of torque at peak output...

www.steelsoldiers.com

Thanks just checked your other post. I don’t abuse my vehicles, so the 370hp tune sounds very interesting. My only concern would be if it then had engine or trans heat issues when pulling steep winding high mountain passes in hot weather. Sounds like that tune won’t be in the CAT ET software by default?

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Thanks just checked your other post. I don’t abuse my vehicles, so the 370hp tune sounds very interesting. My only concern would be if it then had engine or trans heat issues when pulling steep winding high mountain passes in hot weather. Sounds like that tune won’t be in the CAT ET software by default?

Correct. CAT ET is only a programming tool, it doesn't have the library on it. If you have an active subscription to CAT ET you can pull flash files and check compatibility with the engine which is the focus of the program. CAT does issue physical flash libraries to certain organizations but that's above my pay grade.

 

[Lostchain]

I assume correcting the Speedo also addresses the ABS?

I can’t say for sure since I don’t have the Wabco software but I did verify the CTIS gets the updated speed from the data bus, so I would bet the ABS does too if it needs it. In any case since my ECO hub install, it hasn’t thrown any codes.

 

[GCecchetto]

I can’t say for sure since I don’t have the Wabco software but I did verify the CTIS gets the updated speed from the data bus, so I would bet the ABS does too if it needs it. In any case since my ECO hub install, it hasn’t thrown any codes.

Cool, thanks.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks just checked your other post. I don’t abuse my vehicles, so the 370hp tune sounds very interesting. My only concern would be if it then had engine or trans heat issues when pulling steep winding high mountain passes in hot weather. Sounds like that tune won’t be in the CAT ET software by default?

Not only is the 370/931 tune not in CAT ET, it's also not available from CAT. The serial prefix on the military supplied C7's is locked down to only it's original rating from caterpillar so that even a CAT dealer cannot flash it to any other rating (either up or down). Flashing the ECM to 370/931 is something that myself and Lostchain hacked together in a process that took many months and as such it requires that the truck come to me or the ECM can be sent and I can bench flash it. For a nominal fee of course.

As to reliability - I've been running my 2008 M1079A1R this way as my daily driver for several thousand miles and have no issues. All the parts are the same between the 330 and the 370 engines - the only functional difference is that the M-ATV engine uses a water cooled turbocharger (same size, but water cooled CHRA instead of oil cooled). But it's in an armored 25k lb MRAP designed to run in the middle east deserts at 130 degree ambient temps..... run quality synthetic and keep it cool and you won't have any issues.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

There's misinformation being given in this thread in regards to flashing. In order to keep the dissemination of knowledge factual I will share info directly from a physical disk CAT authorized flash library with the expanded military/emergency/off-road files. This library was obtained from CAT but not for public distribution.

The 370hp flash is a CAT made flash and is the top tier for our engine serials. A dealership must request a factory key to "uprate" an engine out of the engine's factory programmed range. This is true of any computerized CAT engine. What's odd about our engines is that the license they're produced under is "military/emergency/off-road" and that isn't included in the standard "on-road" license that most dealerships have. This mean requesting them to perform an "uprate" to an FMTV isn't legally in their ability.. technically. You'd need to talk to their "Power and Pump Division" which oversees this license but they typically don't work on wheel vehicles.. technically. It's an interesting catch 22 that can be resolved by someone willing to work with you.

There are ways to DIY flash these engines and some "google-fu" will give you the way. It's the same flashing techniques as any CAT. Not much hacking to it.

Here are the FMTV flash file codes. They're preexisting and last updated in March 2009. The library they were included with was up to date in 2022 so this should be the final flash unless CAT decides otherwise.



To tie this back into the ECO Hub thread focus.. theC7 turned up should do excellent. I enjoyed my 2008 M1078A1R with 3.07 gears in it as much as I've ever enjoyed a FMTV.

 

[Treadsoft]

There's misinformation being given in this thread. In order to keep the dissemination of knowledge factual I will share info directly from a physical disk CAT authorized flash library with the expanded military/emergency/off-road files. This library was obtained from CAT but not for public distribution.

The 370hp flash is a CAT made flash and is the top tier for our engine serials. A dealership must request a factory key to "uprate" an engine out of the engine's factory programmed range. This is true of any computerized CAT engine. What's odd about our engines is that the license they're produced under is "military/emergency/off-road" and that isn't included in the standard "on-road" license that most dealerships have. This mean requesting them to perform an "uprate" to an FMTV isn't legally in their ability.. technically. You'd need to talk to their "Power and Pump Division" which oversees this license but they typically don't work on wheel vehicles.. technically. It's an interesting catch 22 that can be resolved by someone willing to work with you.

There are ways to DIY flash these engines and some "google-fu" will give you the way. It's the same flashing techniques as any CAT. Not much hacking to it.

Here are the FMTV flash file codes. They're preexisting and last updated in March 2009. The library they were included with was up to date in 2022 so this should be the final flash unless CAT decides otherwise.

View attachment 904260

To tie this back into the ECO Hub thread focus.. theC7 turned up should do excellent. I enjoyed my 2008 M1078A1R with 3.07 gears in it as much as I've ever enjoyed a FMTV.

I installed a set of ECO Hubs a couple of weeks ago along with a rear locker in my 1995 1078A0 and am very pleased with the results.
Once the shift points were relearned the transmission shifter smoother than it ever did, and the 3 to 2 downshift jerkiness went away completely.
I followed theDIP switch setting instructions from an earlier post on this thread for the VDO Speedometer and the settings are right on at 60mph and below.
The results are everything that I had hoped they would be.

 

[GCecchetto]

Not only is the 370/931 tune not in CAT ET, it's also not available from CAT. The serial prefix on the military supplied C7's is locked down to only it's original rating from caterpillar so that even a CAT dealer cannot flash it to any other rating (either up or down). Flashing the ECM to 370/931 is something that myself and Lostchain hacked together in a process that took many months and as such it requires that the truck come to me or the ECM can be sent and I can bench flash it. For a nominal fee of course.

As to reliability - I've been running my 2008 M1079A1R this way as my daily driver for several thousand miles and have no issues. All the parts are the same between the 330 and the 370 engines - the only functional difference is that the M-ATV engine uses a water cooled turbocharger (same size, but water cooled CHRA instead of oil cooled). But it's in an armored 25k lb MRAP designed to run in the middle east deserts at 130 degree ambient temps..... run quality synthetic and keep it cool and you won't have any issues.

The truck I hope to be buying, will no for sure when I inspect it this Saturday, is a 2008 M1078A1R and from what I understand we’re delivered with a 275hp tune. Are all the parts the same as the 330/370 motors? I’m more interested in longevity since I’ll be building it into an expedition vehicle. If all the internals are the same, I’ll be quite happy to enjoy having 370hp and 931 foot pounds of torque

 

[GeneralDisorder]

There's misinformation being given in this thread in regards to flashing. In order to keep the dissemination of knowledge factual I will share info directly from a physical disk CAT authorized flash library with the expanded military/emergency/off-road files. This library was obtained from CAT but not for public distribution.

The 370hp flash is a CAT made flash and is the top tier for our engine serials. A dealership must request a factory key to "uprate" an engine out of the engine's factory programmed range. This is true of any computerized CAT engine. What's odd about our engines is that the license they're produced under is "military/emergency/off-road" and that isn't included in the standard "on-road" license that most dealerships have. This mean requesting them to perform an "uprate" to an FMTV isn't legally in their ability.. technically. You'd need to talk to their "Power and Pump Division" which oversees this license but they typically don't work on wheel vehicles.. technically. It's an interesting catch 22 that can be resolved by someone willing to work with you.

There are ways to DIY flash these engines and some "google-fu" will give you the way. It's the same flashing techniques as any CAT. Not much hacking to it.

Here are the FMTV flash file codes. They're preexisting and last updated in March 2009. The library they were included with was up to date in 2022 so this should be the final flash unless CAT decides otherwise.

View attachment 904260

To tie this back into the ECO Hub thread focus.. theC7 turned up should do excellent. I enjoyed my 2008 M1078A1R with 3.07 gears in it as much as I've ever enjoyed a FMTV.

I was put in touch with a CAT technician through one of their corporate dealership training managers. The technician in question worked at our local power products and equipment dealer and used my C7 military serial number to request ratings from CAT and was told in no uncertain terms by his dealer customer support contact that there were NO other ratings available for my engine. To CAT it was forever a 275/860 engine and they would not allow it to be flashed to any other specification.

Even if you have CAT Dealer ET, and the flash files themselves - you still need two passwords from CAT corporate to perform the flash. Corporate will not give you the passwords to do this. PERIOD.

Flashing is not as simple as googling how it's done. There's definitely some of that involved but you're not going to just google this and download something and *poof* your engine is 370 HP. You had better know what you are doing and have tested it and know it works before you go and wipe or brick an ECM or get your laptop infected with every trojan and virus on the dark web.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

The truck I hope to be buying, will no for sure when I inspect it this Saturday, is a 2008 M1078A1R and from what I understand we’re delivered with a 275hp tune. Are all the parts the same as the 330/370 motors? I’m more interested in longevity since I’ll be building it into an expedition vehicle. If all the internals are the same, I’ll be quite happy to enjoy having 370hp and 931 foot pounds of torque

Yes it will be the 275/860 map. Even the A1P2 is still being delivered with that spec engine.

All the parts are the same as I stated - with the exception of the water cooled turbo CHRA. This can be added if you like but changes nothing about how the engine or turbo functions. It's there for additional cooling in a very heavy armored platform (the M-ATV MRAP and a few others) designed for hot and dusty desert climates running not the greatest oil being supplied by the lowest bidder and being maintained by PVT Snuffy with a crescent wrench and a tanker bar.

 

[GCecchetto]

Yes it will be the 275/860 map. Even the A1P2 is still being delivered with that spec engine.

All the parts are the same as I stated - with the exception of the water cooled turbo CHRA. This can be added if you like but changes nothing about how the engine or turbo functions. It's there for additional cooling in a very heavy armored platform (the M-ATV MRAP and a few others) designed for hot and dusty desert climates running not the greatest oil being supplied by the lowest bidder and being maintained by PVT Snuffy with a crescent wrench and a tanker bar.

Thanks