Elijah95s wrecker project

[Elijah95]

I am curious as to when your flush is done, which hoses are you disconnecting to make sure you have the engine and radiator all drained out? I will be doing a coolant change on mine soon and could use all the pointers I can get. Also my rig is new to me and may have never had a chemical flush or anything like that. What would be your recommendation? Flush with just clean water or run a chemical treatment of some kind?

Best cost-effective way to do it, IMO, is if your system is clean and not giving you any problems but it’s time to change coolant, then simply drain from radiator petcock. Fill her up with water, open both bleeder ports up top to bleed air and close them when full (one by the radiator one near the valve cover).

Cover radiator with cardboard, Crank truck, let it run for 10 minutes, then bring idle up to 1500rpm and hold there for atleast 20 minutes then drain it off into 2 clean 5 gallon buckets, inspecting for sediment and scale. Depending on if you have some come out or not, will determine how much flushing you’ll need, and whether you’ll need chemicals or not. If the coolant is in good shape, no chemical needed just water, if it’s failed and gummy you’ll need something to break it up, if you have a ton of scale, then you need a radiator descaler

Honestly, despite being so nasty I’ve yet to pull a radiator hose, my plans are to run a descaler solution through to dissolve any rust and scale whenever i get all this oil out


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[Superthermal]

Best cost-effective way to do it, IMO, is if your system is clean and not giving you any problems but it’s time to change coolant, then simply drain from radiator petcock. Fill her up with water, open both bleeder ports up top to bleed air and close them when full (one by the radiator one near the valve cover).

Cover radiator with cardboard, Crank truck, let it run for 10 minutes, then bring idle up to 1500rpm and hold there for atleast 20 minutes then drain it off into 2 clean 5 gallon buckets, inspecting for sediment and scale. Depending on if you have some come out or not, will determine how much flushing you’ll need, and whether you’ll need chemicals or not. If the coolant is in good shape, no chemical needed just water, if it’s failed and gummy you’ll need something to break it up, if you have a ton of scale, then you need a radiator descaler

Honestly, despite being so nasty I’ve yet to pull a radiator hose, my plans are to run a descaler solution through to dissolve any rust and scale whenever i get all this oil out


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is DCA4 or DCA2 ok to mix with a 50/50 Distilled water to Concentrate Prestone coolant? Is that what you suggest? Thanks!

 

[Elijah95]

is DCA4 or DCA2 ok to mix with a 50/50 Distilled water to Concentrate Prestone coolant? Is that what you suggest? Thanks!

Absolutely, either-or will work great. If I’m not mistaken, DCA2 is what will be in the Napa bottle and is an older blend of SCA. Dca4 came out in the late 90s and is what will be in motorcraft and fleet guard SCA blends. It’s not recommended to mix DCA2 and DCA4 so keep that in mind for whichever you decide to order depending on availability in your area


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[Elijah95]

Spent half the day fighting the stuck PTO lever in the cab (“yeah I just used the crane today to unhook from a trailer today!” Said the PO the day I was coming down to buy it) and ended up having to un-pin the lever just under the cab with long arms just barely able to touch it. Spent some time spraying every linkage thoroughly with Kroil followed by Fluid Film for long term lube. With it unhooked, the grease fitting near the passenger seat wouldn’t accept grease. It’s a challenge striking a grease-rejuvenator in that space while being too lazy to pull the drivers seat. After lots of Kroil and forcing the lever, was finally able to work it back and forth and free it up, getting plenty of grease in too flush the wear point. Reinstalled the pin after sanding it, and it’s time to test.

Viola! We have crane hydraulics. I’ve been working on this bird nested cable caused by a bird-brained PO, and since the photo have gotten all the cable off the drum but struggling to dig the cable out from between the drum and hydraulic motor. In the mean time, tackled the broken air tank drain line, he thought cutting it would be easier than clearing the dirt dobber larvae from the drain.



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[Ajax MD]

@Elijah95 How much hose and steel line is there to replace on the wrecker systems to ensure that it's safe and ready for loads?
What about the seals on the giant hydraulic pistons?

 

[Elijah95]

@Elijah95 How much hose and steel line is there to replace on the wrecker systems to ensure that it's safe and ready for loads?
What about the seals on the giant hydraulic pistons?

The steel lines have some very light surface rust I’ve temporarily killed so i feel good there. The hydraulic lines have been 1/4 replaced prior to my ownership, the others are looking a little worn but appear to be stable. Hydraulic seals are dry and not weeping but we’ll see how long that lasts!

I guess we will see just how good she does on a test run, and if it’ll hold til Next year I’ll replace all the soft lines fingers crossed


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[Elijah95]

Well, that’s not what i wanted to find in the hoist motor. Flushed it thoroughly with denatured alcohol and keep an eye on it to see if the seals let water in or if it was the vent cap.

Will end up changing this fluid probably every other time I use it in attempt to further flush it, or just fill it to the top with ATF and run it up-down 100x.

I noticed the TM is vague on fluid level, and I have (4) fill/drain plugs on this portion, so do you fill to the lowest plug? #2 circled. Or do you fill to plug #1 circled?


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[KN6KXR]

Well if it helps at all my M936A2 was "mint" (literally was bought from DRMO in 2016 and stored in a hangar had 900 miles) and it had water in the crane cases. Not so much the winch cases. I think the exposure to temperature changes just condenses it really bad. The hydraulic fluid is good because it gets warm when it gets exercised and the moisture can get baked out. The hoist and swing gears never get hot enough.

Be sure to check the swing gear case. There's a metal spiral worm gear that drives a brass (maybe monel?) spur gear. Is there's enough water to pit the worm gear it'll chew the spur gear into itty bitty bits. With mine it cracked the double thrust bearing case. I wrote a threead up on it and all the parts here someplace. Anyways that one and the hoist drive I change at LEAST once a year now.

 

[Elijah95]

Well if it helps at all my M936A2 was "mint" (literally was bought from DRMO in 2016 and stored in a hangar had 900 miles) and it had water in the crane cases. Not so much the winch cases. I think the exposure to temperature changes just condenses it really bad. The hydraulic fluid is good because it gets warm when it gets exercised and the moisture can get baked out. The hoist and swing gears never get hot enough.

Be sure to check the swing gear case. There's a metal spiral worm gear that drives a brass (maybe monel?) spur gear. Is there's enough water to pit the worm gear it'll chew the spur gear into itty bitty bits. With mine it cracked the double thrust bearing case. I wrote a threead up on it and all the parts here someplace. Anyways that one and the hoist drive I change at LEAST once a year now.

Mmmm joy


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[KN6KXR]

Tasty! You can shine a light in the hole and inspect the worm gear. Maybe an inspection mirror will help. The worm gear is 8320H carbon steel IIRC and case hardened. The gear that goes over the spindle is brass or a similar material. That gear is the wear point (and maybe was designed that way) and if it's really worked hard you'll probably see a brass sheen to the oil. The good news is you can replace that gear without removing the case BUT the suction line will be in the way and you'll have to drop the 100 gallons or so of fluid then pump it back in. It's a little known fact that the brass gear is the same gear as the front PTO winch drum drive gear on the 2.5 ton. It took a lot of cross referencing to figure that out. Should have seen the quotes I got until I found that out. I haven't dug into the hoist case (thank god) but did have to pipe the relief on the motor (which had been plugged) back to the tank because it had been spewing oil when operated.

Wreckers are interesting machines but very busy. Luckily the decks were pretty similar (even a bit with the M543; my next project). Still I'll probably be learning new stuff about mine for some time to come.

 

[Elijah95]

Tasty! You can shine a light in the hole and inspect the worm gear. Maybe an inspection mirror will help. The worm gear is 8320H carbon steel IIRC and case hardened. The gear that goes over the spindle is brass or a similar material. That gear is the wear point (and maybe was designed that way) and if it's really worked hard you'll probably see a brass sheen to the oil. The good news is you can replace that gear without removing the case BUT the suction line will be in the way and you'll have to drop the 100 gallons or so of fluid then pump it back in. It's a little known fact that the brass gear is the same gear as the front PTO winch drum drive gear on the 2.5 ton. It took a lot of cross referencing to figure that out. Should have seen the quotes I got until I found that out. I haven't dug into the hoist case (thank god) but did have to pipe the relief on the motor (which had been plugged) back to the tank because it had been spewing oil when operated.

Wreckers are interesting machines but very busy. Luckily the decks were pretty similar (even a bit with the M543; my next project). Still I'll probably be learning new stuff about mine for some time to come.

I think it would be a great idea to go ahead and find one, the fill and drain plug has substantial rust pitting but surprisingly the gear does not. I’ve heard those brass gears are a finite commodity and I’m curious how long this one will last. Thanks for all the great info


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[Elijah95]

It’s apparently been this way since before i bought the truck, and despite what i though was “normal” hydraulic noises with no binding, popping etc How screwed am I? I have a mangled chunk of steel and lots of glitter from this portion of the crane under the truck





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[Elijah95]

Anyone? Surely someone has dealt with the same thing


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[DeMilitarized]

Anyone? Surely someone has dealt with the same thing


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Would have been a Ron question.

 

[KN6KXR]

Well I have a 936 which is WAY different so I'm not sure what I'm looking at here.

That said.... If I found something like that come out there is no doubt the thing would come apart for inspection/repair before I used it again to prevent it costing me more money. It certainly looks like a broken bearing race that's been chewed on. Won't know until you open it up.

 

[87cr250r]

I want to fill in some gaps on coolant tech. First, don't judge a coolant by its color.

Primarily there are two types, one is sodium nitrite based and the other is carboxylic acid based with the latter being the newer tech. They both work well but the sodium nitrite based coolants require regular supplements and replacement. They are better at preventing liner cavitation.

Green used to be considered conventional sodium nitrite based. These coolants don't exist anymore. All sodium nitrite based coolants are bright pink. Don't confuse this with the red ELC coolant. All green coolants today are some form of extended life coolant.

Both types of coolants need a clean system to be effective. If there is existing corrosion they cannot protect the metal under the corrosion.

For the most part you'll be ok running either coolant but some engine manufacturers are aware of liner cavitation and will suggest nitrites. These are available in standard and HOAT formulations. Caterpillar, for example, wants nitrites regardless of standard or long life. Other manufacturers use belted liners with extra metal in the cavitation zone.

You can't run nitrite coolants in engines with aluminum brazed oil coolers and radiators. John Deere is the only manufacturer that I know that makes this claim.

The anti-freeze is unimportant. Propylene glycol is less expensive to dispose of in commercial applications but the performance difference between the two is trivial.

 

[SCM35A2]

Subscribed!

 

[Ajax MD]

Green used to be considered conventional sodium nitrite based. These coolants don't exist anymore. All sodium nitrite based coolants are bright pink. Don't confuse this with the red ELC coolant. All green coolants today are some form of extended life coolant.

Ok, I bought Autozone green coolant 2 years ago when I rehab'd my coolant system. It's getting on time for a coolant replacement. Can you list any brand names of pink, nitrite based coolant that I can shop for? Or do they typically say "nitrite" somewhere on the jug?

 

[87cr250r]

Caterpillar DEAC is the only conventional coolant that is still readily available that I am aware of. Caterpillar SCA can be used with straight water if you don't need antifreeze. Mix at 16:1.

Caterpillar ELC is an extended life coolant with nitrites. Sometimes the only way you can figure these things out is to look at the safety data sheet.

 

[Elijah95]

Helped a buddy get his 20’ shipping container moved across his property yesterday during the downpour, speaking of which can someone quit bribing the weatherman for all the rain we’ve been receiving every weekend? Keep this up and I’ll have to only work my day job on rainy-days to get caught up at home! (Excuse the 3rd photo, as it was captured from a potato lense Droid)

Oh well, another day I’m blessed to see





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