engine alternatives for the deuce?

[whistlingdeuce]

Cool. I'll look into doing all that one-by-one. I'm not sure what pop testing is, but I'll read up on it. It's nice to know there are so many Cummins mechanics here. I'll definitely have questions once the project hits high gear.

On a nonsequitur, does anyone know if the front and rear differential gears are the same or different in the Deuce? What I mean is does the front differential have gears that are cut opposite-pitch to the rear differentials? Or can front gears be used in the rears & vice-versa? I know on ordinary 4x4 trucks you have to specify front or rear ring&pinion when doing differential work.

Yes all the gears are the same front and rear. They are third members that are interchangeable anywhere on the truck. If you look at the top of the differential you will see on one side the driveshaft bolted to the pinion. If you look on the other side of that same differential you will see the same flange the driveshaft is bolted to on the other side. it is made like that so they can be turned 180* and placed front and rear. Also a little side note. a lot of guys the do hardcore 4 wheelin will use 2.5 ton rockwells for their trucks. They will make up a bracket for the opposite side of the driveshaft and install a brake rotor and caliper for better braking.

 

[mudguppy]

... it is made like that so they can be turned 180* and placed front and rear. ....

no, it's not 'made like that' and it isn't so straight-forward: there is some re-drilling of a couple of studs that needs to be done in order to rotate a chunk.

also, if you rotate a chunk w/out rotating the housing as well, then you'll be running on the 'back-side' of the pinion gears which usually leads to bad things.

 

[FireFighterHill]

Do you guys think the drivetrain from a F-550 would fit in a deuce. I know I would need the PCM to control the engine and tranny but that is no problem I have a friend who can make me a new harness and reprogram the PCM.

I would keep everything I could, the a/c, power steering pump. add a 24 volt alt or get a 24/12 wolverine alt.

The other problem would be either keep the 4x4 transfer case and having a double transfer or getting rid of one.

 

[mudguppy]

not without moving the transfer.

you'll also want to switch to 12V - there won't be any point of keeping the 24V as you'll have to run the ECM, FICM, TCM, etc. on 12V. the only thing left on 24V is the lighting, and that's IF you can rebuild the starter to 24V.

 

[SHOTSTRAIGHT]

Has any one considered a duramax and a allison just courious i was thinking of this.

 

[mudguppy]

again, that would be pretty sweet, but you'll need to do a lot of wiring to get them both running. they make stand-alone engine harneses for the d-max yet? they likely do...

i think you may also be pretty tight up to the transfer case if you plan on keeping the d-max intercooled. the allison is a decently long and a whole lot longer than the spicer.

as w/ anything else, it can be done w/ lots of time and money. i say go for it.

 

[ShaggyTheGreat]

this is all true stuff. though, it is worth mentioning that the dt466 is a full-size medium duty engine. dimensionally, it's as large as the multifuel, so it would likely be almost a 'bolt-in', physically speaking. however, the dt466 usually uses an intercooler. also, the multifuel radiator will likely not keep up with the '466 - it may since you might never be able to make the '466 break a sweat. but, i want to bring these tow issues up as considerations - there isn't room for a larger radiator and intercooler under the 'A2 sheet metal.



medium duty engine by International, 466 cid. very popular, plentiful, very reliable, very 'horsepower friendly'.



the '360 is the little brother to the '466. this is about the exact same relationship as the 5.9 to the 8.3 liter Cummins. for all intents and purposes, it is exactly the same as the 5.9 Cummins as far as size, reliability, ease to work on, 'horsepower friendly', and ease to turn-up. in another forum, a gentleman just finished swapping one into a late model Super Duty; right now he's at about 500 rwhp and will be taking it to 600 very soon...... and just like the Cummins, this is all with basic fueling mods and on stock internals.

as was mentioned about the reputation, popularity, and lack of availability of the 5.9 Cummins, the DT360 is an over-looked treasure. use it!!!

In my opinion all this is just more of a challenge! Its fun and very satisfying to get around to finishing it, start is up, make it work all nice and smooth... stand back and say, **** son, i did that.

 

[Rmtaunton]

If i wear ever to replace the LDT, I would go with a gas 366 and 5 speed overdrive out of a C70. Yes I know it's gas but, it is such a strong engine and tranny and wow would it tow anything. So easy to work on, cheap parts and being a V8 without the need of intercoolers it would be so easy to transplant, as it is so much shorter than the straight six.

Just my 2 cents

 

[KaiserM109]

If i wear ever to replace the LDT, I would go with a gas 366 and 5 speed overdrive out of a C70. Yes I know it's gas but, it is such a strong engine and tranny and wow would it tow anything. So easy to work on, cheap parts and being a V8 without the need of intercoolers it would be so easy to transplant, as it is so much shorter than the straight six.

Just my 2 cents

Another reason is to go to a gasser is top speed.

The reason the deuce has such a crazy shift pattern was that transmission and axle ratio combination was originally designed for an engine that could wrap higher than 3000 RPM. To go from gas to diesel they left what used to be 5th alone, which was straight through, called it 4th, and made 4th into an overdrive ratio and called it 5th.

Short version, if you put an engine that is limited to around 2200 RPM, like most diesels are, you’ll wish you had an overdrive transmission. To get an idea of what that would be like, drive your deuce around in 4th (straight through) and forget about 5th.

Thanks for the suggestion of using an engine from a C70. I plan to find out what that is, and see if I can get my hands on one. I have a real puny deuce with no turbo.

 

[11Echo]

366 tall deck replacement in my M1008. Works great!
Big block GM's work well in other mv's.

 

[m-35tom]

and you can also get used to 2 - 3 mpg!!!

 

[Rmtaunton]

Correction, I have owned a C70 it averaged 8 or 9 and it was generally loaded , given I doubt it would do much better empty, ok it was always loaded or towing , otherwise I would have drove something else lol

 

[rustystud]

Yes, go with a gas engine and deal with the crap they call gasoline today. I prefer to stay with an engine that can run crankcase oil if needed . Also you can store diesel much longer then gasoline. Even using all the new additives, your lucky to get gas to last 1 year now. The diesel I'm using I bought 3 years ago . In fact as I'm writing this I'm using my MEP-002A generator since power went out 2 hours ago. I have a large fuel storage tank, and I only have to buy fuel every 2 to 3 years, (I know I need to buy some more !) but with the right additives it stays just fine ! Gasoline on the other hand is a pain to store. I had to replace the carburetor on my Honda ATV last year because I forgot to drain it before winter. It turned to jelly crap and ruined the inside passages of the carb.

 

[HETvet]

The only decent gas out there right now is C16 which is 116 octane rated, it's leaded, and is race fuel. Other than that, you can convert it to run only on E85. I would stay away from gasoline engines unless your building a race/high HP engine.

 

[red]

Has any one considered a duramax and a allison just courious i was thinking of this.

If my 05 duramax doesn't sell, it might make its way over to the deuce in a few years.

 

[rustystud]

If my 05 duramax doesn't sell, it might make its way over to the deuce in a few years.

Actually of all the engine transplants, I like the Duramax with Allison transmission the best. The Duramax has proven itself to be a very reliable engine with plenty of power. The only thing I don't like is all the electronic crap that must go with it and the tranny. I work with electronic controlled diesels and transmissions all the time. 90% of engine work today is fixing a sensor or actuating valve that has gone tit's up. Where is all the dependability they told use these engines would have ? It's all about meeting the EPA emissions standards. That's great, and I hear China is doing a bang-up job of meeting emissions standards too !!! Along with India and Indonesia and etc........

 

[red]

Haha so true. That's one of the things I like about the equipment I worked on in the oilfield, no emissions. When we shutdown they were selling stuff for cheap. Smallest engines were Cat C9's and I thought about getting one because it could fit in the deuce, but with the move I couldn't afford it.

The potential donor truck that I have is in great shape, which is one of the reasons why I'm holding off on gutting it haha. Its a regular cab long bed 2wd, making it more difficult to sell. If it doesn't sell then I'll bring it up to Washington in a few months.

 

[mikelmarion]

What is the weight loss from a stock Duece engine to a newer Dmax? Anyone know? Like 500lbs less?

 

[cattlerepairman]

A 6.6 liter Duramax weighs about 850 lbs, give or take. An LDT/LDS 465 weighs about 1800-1900 lbs. Quite the difference! Cast aluminium vs. cast iron.

 

[rustystud]

A 6.6 liter Duramax weighs about 850 lbs, give or take. An LDT/LDS 465 weighs about 1800-1900 lbs. Quite the difference! Cast aluminium vs. cast iron.

Have you driven one of the new 2018 Duramax diesels ? That thing is crazy scary powerfull !!!
If you put one of them into a deuce you would break about every drivetrain component in a week !