Engine Prelube Info....

[jimk]

Even short it will get oil press up sooner.You could use two 2...

Moroso makes a manual version. I paid $50(?) for this one on e-bay. It is adjustable and rebuildable , 3 qt cap. Summit, and others, sells them ~170(?). They have a 1-1/2 qt, and a cheap gav feed too. The press models can be mounted anywhere w/ one hose ,like under the cab floor.You would trap oil in there before shut down by turning the lever (extend the shaft). Could be used to cool turbo.It would also act as a crutch if, heaven forbid, you can find a way to uncover the pick-up. JimK

p.s. The oiling system is nicely illustrated in the LDS-456-1 Trouble shooting Manual (available in the S.S. TM resources, page 3), a brief description (page 2), and the oil system capacity- filters dry 22qt / filters full 18qt (page 10).

 

[Banshee365]

I like the idea of an accumulator. My question is, would be be able to hold pressure up to a few weeks between starts? Is that type of accumulator the type with the piston and nitrogen charge below it like airplanes use? I like the idea of the electric pump straight into the filter base better but the accumulator may be cheaper and easier to setup.

Would you pressurize the accumlator right before shutdown, I'd imagine you would have to just crack the valve at first so you don't rob all the oil pressure to the running engine. If you used the accumulator to keep oil flowing to the turbo then you would use all the pressure for the next engine start right? WWII airplanes like the P-51 used electric oil pre-lubricator's on the Merlin's, I think that would be the best thing, use it when you want and not have to worry about saving pressure. Plus you wouldn't have to worry about it holding for a couple months straight when the dry starts are really bad. We just need an affordable pump, way to mount it and, of course, the fittings. I'd paint it OD to make it look original.

BTW, who said the engines were designed to be dry started? As mentioned it's still a diesel engine with regular old bearings.

-Kelly

 

[dmetalmiki]

Addition to comments..Now I have attended a coulple of shows and USED the ELECTRIC pre-oiler I am so satisfied with the result I am to cnvert my other Ms to this system. Yes leave the truck standing for (YONKS!) but hit the (a) second master switch..flick "prime" and sit and wait for the oil pressure gauge to flicker..hit start..and INSTANT oil pressure. (both) anxiety relieving AND assuring.!(longevity!)

 

[Flatlander]

So how do you plan to acquire these pumps to convert your other trucks? I'd like to do the same...

 

[rmgill]

Vertical mount
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007050821491369&item=9-7121&catname=hydraulic

Horizontal mount
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007050821491369&item=9-7119&catname=hydraulic

 

[OPCOM]

the only difficulty might be for the M35 and a pump, as getting the oil fom the sump could be an issue since its pan does not have that neat little fitting. The pressurized cylinder seems like a good idea if it will hold for weeks..

 

[jimk]

I'd think the pump is best. A fitting can be easily added to pan or just use the drain plug (more vulnerable).

The accum advantage is lower cost(slightly w/new, more so w/used), and simplicity (though perhaps not in use). Either system is a BIG bonus on any engine that drains down 4 qt, or sits for 6 month. JimK

 

[houdel]

I'm with you, I just haven't been able to find a suitable pump yet for a pre lube system. I figure 15-30 psi at 10-20 gpm would work. The pumps (actually power packs) Ryan found probably wouldn't work too well as there is no suction line (they are designed to pump oil from the attached reservoir) and they are designed for higher pressure/lower flow rate than what would be optimum for a pre lubricator pump. I suppose you could take one apart and try to figure out how to convert it to a reservoirless pump, but I'm not going to gamble $250 that I can get it to work properly. I'll just keep looking for the right pump.

As for an oil pick up, I'd cut back the Turbo drain line a little bit, remove the drain line fitting from the block and replace it with a pipe tee. I'd wiggle some 3/8" or 1/2" copper tube in through the side of the tee and down the edge of the oil pan to near the bottom and secure it with a compression fitting, then reconnect the turbo drain to the top of the tee. I'd connect the copper tube to the suction side of the pump, run a hose from the outlet to the pre filter oil port on the filter housing, a little electrical work and I'd be done.

Got some thoughts on the bypass filter system too, but the pre lube system comes first. The only thing stopping me now is finding a 24V pump to use for the pre lube system.

 

[JDToumanian]

Lee-
Do you not like these pumps?

http://www.enginegearonline.com/gepu12or24vo1.html

I know they're rather pricey, but they're the best I've found so far. I contacted the manufacturer to make sure the pumps are not made in China crap, and they replied that they're made in Italy. It's the same pump supplied in this kit:

http://www.pre-luber.com/preluberkits.htm

The kits are nice because they include the pre- and post-lube timer, but a simple manual toggle switch could work just as well and save almost $200. The kit also includes a nice check valve, but a good plumbing store would probably have something comparable.

Jon

 

[houdel]

Jon - They are pricey, only 3 gpm, which I guess would work in a pinch, but they don't specify the output pressure. I'll keep them in mind, may try it if I can't find something more to my liking. The system in dmetalmiki's wrecker had a huge motor, I don't know if this pump would be up to the job.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Im going to check for pumps tomorrow so will give info as and when I get it. as the pump and piping(to the sump) were profesionally done..((M.O.D.)) so I will find the source of the parts and post it here. D

 

[devilman96]

Workin on them!

 

[jimk]

Lee,I'd be cautious about add any restriction to the turbo drain.The turbo shaft's extreem speed (when making boost) puts a lot of air in the oil. It looks like dirty whipped cream. The large dia. drain is for the larger volume. Perhaps drain oil and mig weld a fitting on the side of the pan?JimK

 

[OPCOM]

I would be willing to pay for an oil pan plug modified with a high quality fitting such as a 'banjo' type fitting, to be used with a prelube system, which i would also be willing to buy, in order to avoid having to cut into the oil pan or to try to re-plumb turbo returns and other things. This would make it easy to remove the fitting for oil changes as well a providing a decently strong fitting. The ones shown here have 1/4" fuel lines attached. I do not even approach having the right tools to make this myself. (lathe and a big tap?). If it were easy to install, might be a good seller teamed up with one of the pumps shown. Just draw oil from the pan, filter it with a small spin-on fixture, and pump it into an adapter at the oil pressure sensor, or better, to the truck's pre-filter oil port to fill up the filters. Combining this with a nice spin-on adapter kit would be heaven.

 

[devilman96]

Patrick,

I am thinking of using a block of milled aluminum with a backing plate into the rear pan sump for a pick up, basically like the UK truck was/is done... As always im busy as all get out and I have some projects which I have promised to complete first (wheels, alternator kits) but I should have some general pricing in a few weeks on this... Its not going to be a cheap mod, the parts involved are just not a cheap list when added up and it will require dropping the oil pan and drilling to install it.

 

[JDToumanian]

Workin on them!

SWEET! Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about! ...I reckon I'll wait for the OD Iron kit...

Jon

 

[OPCOM]

DM,

Dropping the pan is out for me, when I get around to it maybe I can buy an oil pan plug and the fitting and get a machine shop to do it. -or this little valve that a nipple can be attached to
http://www.fumotousa.com/


What is the pump model you have there?

 

[houdel]

Workin on them!

Devilman96 - That's looking better. Care to share some info on that pump? Who has them, how much do they cost, performance specs? Is it a gear pump?

I've looked at 1000s of pumps on line and can't find the right one yet. There are plenty of diaphragm or eccentric pumps out there that will pump 10 or so gpm at 10-15 psi with 70F oil, but when the temp falls to 20F or so and the oil gets real thick, this type of pump drops off to 1-2 gpm and I don't know if that will work. What is really needed is a gear or gerotor pump which will not lose much volume as fluid viscosity increases.

FWIW, 15W-40 and 30 weight oil are both about 225 cps viscosity at 70F, about 2450 cps at 20F, so they thicken up quite a bit with temperature. I'm not sure how to describe cps (Centipoise per second) in understandable terms, but one diaphragm pump I was looking at put out 10 gpm at 15 psi with 70F engine oil, but only one gpm when the oil got down to 20F.

 

[cranetruck]

To me this is the ideal pump, the multifuel engine oil pump.

Mil Spec, it only needs a drive motor, perhaps a starter motor from a small car (junk yard stuff). It can be a 12 VDC motor operated on 24 volts for a few seconds.
The mount, housing and motor to pump coupling is all that needs to be fabbed up. Pipe fittings are flanged.
The pump is actually a two pump unit with the "scavanger" pump part of it.

 

[73m819]

a lot of heavy equipment have a prelube system with two pressure switches in the system, you just start as nomaul, but the prelub comes on first, oil pressure is built up then the moter starts, after the moter starts a second oil pressure switch senses that the moter is making oil pressure and shuts down the prelub, this happens so fast that you notice almost no lag at startup, no need for a second panel switch or waiting for the gage, all there is a lite on the panel showing if the prelub is on or not