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Engine repair or swap to LDS?

ldmack3

ldmack3

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cattlerepairman said:
I do not doubt the assessment on the pistons. I do want to say that, when I rebuilt my LDS I took a deep breath when I saw the tops of my pistons and was convinced that #6 had a hole in it and others were at least cracked.

Panic post (#17) is here: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/preparing-to-get-an-lds-ready-for-the-swap-questions.142077/

When I got enough oxygen back to my brain and cleaned the pistons up I saw....nothing. They were all fine. The "damage" was a very convincing trick by lighting and burnt residue. Judge yourself from the pictures.

Not saying that is what you are facing; just saying "look closely".


Some info on pistons as well in that thread.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. I'm planning to pull the heads and do a better inspection before ordering parts. Looks like a crack in the pic, but I want a complete assessment before go spending the money. Piston/sleeve set $800 on Ebay, rod end bearings $200 set, gasket set $400. I'll need the gaskets anyway but if I can save the $1,000 that will be good. Already planning on replacing the intake rocker arms, $220 for 6.
In no hurry.

Thanks again.
 
ToddJK

ToddJK

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ldmack3 said:
Thanks for the input. I'm planning to pull the heads and do a better inspection before ordering parts. Looks like a crack in the pic, but I want a complete assessment before go spending the money. Piston/sleeve set $800 on Ebay, rod end bearings $200 set, gasket set $400. I'll need the gaskets anyway but if I can save the $1,000 that will be good. Already planning on replacing the intake rocker arms, $220 for 6.
In no hurry.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
My question is, are the cracks in the pistons related to heat, age, or both? At what point does a cracked piston head dictate replacement?
As far as sleeves, I'd only replace those if they are scored by the rings, if no scoring, re-use them. Unless you're getting a deal on a piston/sleeve combo, I'd buy just the pistons and maybe a sleeve or two just in case, but it's hard to know until you get eyes on it with the heads off. Otherwise, if doing a head gasket replacement, like others have stated earlier, might as well change out what you can while it's torn down that far and if going with new bearings, that would be a good time to see how much bearing wear there is as well as the condition of the crank.
If all this is done and there is still blowby in the crankcase, them I'm gonna take a wild guess it may be coming from the turbo.
 
rustystud

rustystud

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First off. If your going to save the pistons and jugs then mark the pistons so you know which hole they came out of and put them back in the same hole. They have worn into that liner and you don't want them to have to wear into another. That will just cause excessive blowby and possibly piston slap.
Second. The whole argument about the manifold being heated is outdated. Yes back in the 40's and 50's they thought heating the manifold would help combustion. We know better now. If it wasn't so critical to engine heating (due to the fact that the coolant passes through the heads like it does) I would block off the coolant passages and install an intercooler and see what happens.
Maybe you can block off the passages without effecting the coolant flow in the heads. Need to research that. To make any more power though you need to install a better Turbo. If you install a better Turbo then you need a better Cam to make use of that extra pressure generated.
When I was in communication with that Tractor pull guy who made his own engine based on the multifuel that was the first thing he did. Better Turbo and Cam. Then he found he needed more fuel with that new Cam. So he installed a new Injection pump. Made him over 350HP with a factory multifuel engine.
Now we have installed a new Turbo and Cam and Injection pump. where do we stop ? Pretty soon your down this rabbit hole so deep you cannot get out. Better to have installed a modern diesel engine that already makes good power and can easily be made to make more if needed.
 
Last edited:
rustystud

rustystud

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You know this whole idea of making the MultiFuel engine into some kind of performance engine (something it was never designed to do) reminds me of this group of 1950's car buffs that would take the Chevy 235cid engine and beef it up to around 300HP or more. They could do it. I had a friend who was in it and even helped him once by giving him my Corvette 2 carb manifold and header off the original 235 engine. Should have just kept it looking back on it now. The cost to make this engine make that kind of power and keep it from exploding was tremendous. You could have bought a "keith Black" 350 Chevy engine ready to go for the money spent. (For those of you too young to know. Keith Black was a renowned engine builder back in the 80's . )
I asked why they did it once. They said it was the "challenge" of it.
I suppose if you have the money and time and will to do it, then go for it. Myself I'll just repower it and enjoy it now before I'm dead.
 
ldmack3

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Plenty of time, not so much with money.
I'm planning the following.
Pull the heads for eval of pistons.
Pull the rod end caps on the cracked pistons and mic the crank. I may pull the main caps just to get a look at bearing condition.
If the crank looks good, I'll replace at least the cracked pistons. Maybe more depending on what I find with the heads off.
Replace the intake rocker arms. Word on here is they are a big part of getting LDS power. I'm only looking for enough power to pull hills better and cooler EGTs.
Following an experiment with the air intake I might get a 5 ton for more air.

If I find anything catastrophic, like a bad crank, I will probably sell the truck.
I don't have the equipment to pull the engine, a stand for it, a shop to put the truck in while working on it.
 
cattlerepairman

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@ldmack3

When my LDT went kaputt, I had no way of getting it out or moving the disabled truck around. I have no real shop and had no engine hoist or engine stand.

If I did not tackle the job, I would have to sell the truck, which I did not want to do and I would be lucky to find a buyer for a Deuce with a busted engine.


The question I asked myself was....do I
1) start taking my engine apart and then rebuild it? If I find something catastrophic I would have to look for a running replacement engine

OR...

2) simply get a running takeout engine, service it, drop it in and be done?

I opted for 2. Project creep led to an almost complete rebuild of the replacement engine but that is another story. I don't regret doing it.

I asked a friend with a tractor and front loader to lift the LDT and the tranny out for me. That was free but we dented the firewall, tranny tunnel and crushed a brake line on the front axle. 20 mins with a big a$$ hammer, spray paint and a simple NiFe brake line replacement later, it was all fixed.

For the re-install of the rebuilt LDS I hired a guy with a shop truck and crane. That set me back $250 but it went smooth as butter and we dented or broke absolutely nothing.

The LDT/LDS can be 95% rebuilt standing upright on its bell housing. I stood the engine up on the deck of a little single axle trailer so I could move it, if need be. That also allowed me to use ratchet straps to secure it and tilt it, if needed. If you do get an engine hoist, it makes standing up and laying down the engine block very easy. The engine on the trailer, standing up, also minimizes crawling around or working overhead while on the ground, which I appreciated.

Maybe that helps? I wish you the best of luck with your project!
 
Mullaney

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cattlerepairman said:
@ldmack3

When my LDT went kaputt, I had no way of getting it out or moving the disabled truck around. I have no real shop and had no engine hoist or engine stand.

If I did not tackle the job, I would have to sell the truck, which I did not want to do and I would be lucky to find a buyer for a Deuce with a busted engine.


The question I asked myself was....do I
1) start taking my engine apart and then rebuild it? If I find something catastrophic I would have to look for a running replacement engine

OR...

2) simply get a running takeout engine, service it, drop it in and be done?

I opted for 2. Project creep led to an almost complete rebuild of the replacement engine but that is another story. I don't regret doing it.

I asked a friend with a tractor and front loader to lift the LDT and the tranny out for me. That was free but we dented the firewall, tranny tunnel and crushed a brake line on the front axle. 20 mins with a big a$$ hammer, spray paint and a simple NiFe brake line replacement later, it was all fixed.

For the re-install of the rebuilt LDS I hired a guy with a shop truck and crane. That set me back $250 but it went smooth as butter and we dented or broke absolutely nothing.

The LDT/LDS can be 95% rebuilt standing upright on its bell housing. I stood the engine up on the deck of a little single axle trailer so I could move it, if need be. That also allowed me to use ratchet straps to secure it and tilt it, if needed. If you do get an engine hoist, it makes standing up and laying down the engine block very easy. The engine on the trailer, standing up, also minimizes crawling around or working overhead while on the ground, which I appreciated.

Maybe that helps? I wish you the best of luck with your project!
Click to expand...
.
AND sometimes you just have to do it because it needs to be done with the tools you have.

Before I had a gantry, I used a tree.
Before I had a chain-fall, I used a come-along.
Before I had an electric chain-fall, I used the manual version of that tool.
Used to have a hodge-podge box of tools, later I got full sets of wrenches and sockets.

Like most folks, it takes years to collect the tools and the skills.

@ToddJK - Im sure you could do it in your driveway if you have no otherchoice...
.
 
ldmack3

ldmack3

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I've got most of the tools from having been an aircraft mech for years. But I lack some things like a bigger micrometer, ring compressor..mostly stuff for reciprocating engines.
I've got the aft head off and will finish eval on it and aft 3 cylinders before I pull the front. Anything drastic, I'm done.
Cost is a biggie and not sure how much I would trust a "good" take out. Most I will go is pistons, sleeves and rod bearings.

Appreciate the advice!
 
V8srfun

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ToddJK

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ldmack3 said:
Specs on piston cracks are max 5/16" length and .020 wide. Of #4, 5 & 6 only #6 piston fails. One crack is 1/2" long. Haven't pulled the front head yet. So I will only be replacing the pistons/liner on #6 so far. Will pull the failed and inspect/mic the rod end journal.
Click to expand...
At least that's good to know only one piston failed to be in spec. Hopefully no other surprises are found upon further inspection.
 
ldmack3

ldmack3

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Yea well I still gotta pull the other head.
I hope there is only that one out of spec. I’ll be able to afford the parts quicker and get drive some more before winter. Need one more load of top soil.
 
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