Engine repair or swap to LDS?

[ldmack3]

I’ve never added lube of any sort when using plastigauge. The plasti will squish out as designed, IMO.

Do you oil to clean it off? Their website say you can leave it on and it won't hurt the engine but....

 

[DaneGer21]

Do you oil to clean it off? Their website say you can leave it on and it won't hurt the engine but....

I use a degreaser as the final wipe down anyways, and that has always done the trick. I’m sure you know, but plenty of assembly lube for the final install! As for lube, I like the red “ultra slick”

 

[rustystud]

You use "Plastigage" on dry surfaces. Remember there is already clearance there. So the plastic will flow into the empty space.

 

[ldmack3]

You use "Plastigage" on dry surfaces. Remember there is already clearance there. So the plastic will flow into the empty space.

Thanks.
Your thoughts on the pits in the bearing surface?

 

[Mullaney]

Thanks.
Your thoughts on the pits in the bearing surface?

.
It doesn't look new. More like a factory defect. Doesn't look bad to me - unless you wanted to "go new" while you are down that far into the rebuild.

 

[davidb56]

I would thing lubing it would give a false reading since oil isnt compressible. those bearings look good if within spec.

 

[ToddJK]

The bearings look good to me. Better than the bearings I had and was looking at in my old multi-fuel. Mine had the polished metal part worn off with a brass looking sheen showing under it, which from my understanding was a lot of wear. The pits I don't think affect anything. What's really important is how the crank bearing surface looks. As long as there are no scratches you can feel or catch with your finger nail and discoloration, then your good. Just make sure to rub some oil on those before re-assembly, that's definitely one part you don't want turning dry! I don't recall what I torqued mine down too.

 

[ldmack3]

The bearings look good to me. Better than the bearings I had and was looking at in my old multi-fuel. Mine had the polished metal part worn off with a brass looking sheen showing under it, which from my understanding was a lot of wear. The pits I don't think affect anything. What's really important is how the crank bearing surface looks. As long as there are no scratches you can feel or catch with your finger nail and discoloration, then your good. Just make sure to rub some oil on those before re-assembly, that's definitely one part you don't want turning dry! I don't recall what I torqued mine down too.

Ok now how about the main. I think good for a while considering the remedy would be painful.
BTW plasti read .004 on that rod bearing.

 

[Mullaney]

Ok now how about the main. I think good for a while considering the remedy would be painful.
BTW plasti read .004 on that rod bearing.

.
IMO, you need need to carefully inspect that crank journal. Does it have a scratch or scuff mark that is chewing into that bearing? Or, maybe more specific two spots? Possible that it has already been scuffed off by the bearing... Plasti should read the scuff if you can find it. Funny how it works (no laughing matter though) but trying to turn the crank enough in tiny increments to find a rough spot.

 

[ToddJK]

Definitely looks like some wear, but is that bad? I won't say yes and I won't say no. I don't have the expertise to say if that crank needs attention or not, but if that engine ran smooth before you dug into it,I have no reason to believe it won't continue to run smoothly once it's running again. That could be something that has been like that for who knows how long or how long of a period to wear to that point, ect. If there's no definitive answer, my only suggestion is to just run new bearings where you can, use good oil, and keep it clean with regular oil changes along with good filters, keeping the rpms within safe operating range.

I do know that the bearings have a small oil passage and that could be something easily plugged or difficult for thick oil to flow until fully warmed, so this may shed some light on how important it is to run good, clean oil, and also why cold starts where the engine fires up and revved to a high rpm right away can be a bad thing not just for the turbo but on the bearings as well

I honestly wouldn't be too concerned over it if there was never a suspicion with a bearing to begin with, but I would note it somewhere and that cylinder(s) even pictures, so if there ever is a suspicion, or another rebuild, you have something to reference to gauge the amount of wear there is.

At least if you decide to run it as is with the old bearings, you know it's all accessible from the bottom, so it's not like you can't go back sometime next year and replace all the bearings or if you find another crank in good condition, plan for a future lower end rebuild. I just don't recall if the motor has to be lifted or not to remove the crank should it come down to that.

Hopefully a multi-fuel guru who has seen some cranks in their time can shed some light on that, so no work is done in vien.

 

[rustystud]

Thanks.
Your thoughts on the pits in the bearing surface?

The pitting on the bearings is more than likely due to moisture in your oil. When it gets hot enough the water boils off and cause's these small pits. The only cure for excessive moisture in an engine is to run it on a daily basis.
Since the pitting is not widespread and into the brass part yet I would still use them.
Up here in the Pacific Northwest we see a lot of moisture damage to engines and other parts. Especially differential ring gears. I had one ring gear that looked like it had been shot with a giant shotgun. Small pits everywhere.

 

[ldmack3]

Ok I may have screwed the pooch.
I used plasti on the main I removed, actually the thrust main, and it is from .003 to .004. .004 on the sides where the wear is.
But when I was taking it back out, I dropped it lost the orientation. I can see no marking on it indicating orientation and yes I failed to mark it.
The bearing ends were not flush with the cap, that is one is up by about 1/8" and obviously the other side was down, but it came loose after removal. I believe I got the bearing to cap orientation correct.
One side of the thrust bearing has more wear than the other, but I cannot tell which way it goes by looking at crank.
So far I have seen nothing indicating requiring removal of the engine. Which is good since I have no hoist or stand.
Am I toast or is there another way to make certain I have the correct orientation?

 

[ToddJK]

Ok I may have screwed the pooch.
I used plasti on the main I removed, actually the thrust main, and it is from .003 to .004. .004 on the sides where the wear is.
But when I was taking it back out, I dropped it lost the orientation. I can see no marking on it indicating orientation and yes I failed to mark it.
The bearing ends were not flush with the cap, that is one is up by about 1/8" and obviously the other side was down, but it came loose after removal. I believe I got the bearing to cap orientation correct.
One side of the thrust bearing has more wear than the other, but I cannot tell which way it goes by looking at crank.
So far I have seen nothing indicating requiring removal of the engine. Which is good since I have no hoist or stand.
Am I toast or is there another way to make certain I have the correct orientation?

Should be able to tell by the wear pattern, the bearing should match the crank journal. I did the same thing, took a while to match the tiny little wear patterns.

 

[Mullaney]

Should be able to tell by the wear pattern, the bearing should match the crank journal. I did the same thing, took a while to match the tiny little wear patterns.

.
Agreed! Magnifying glass... You should be able to match the wear pattern. Put it together, look, then try it the other way. With some magnification you should be able to figure out proper orientation.

 

[ldmack3]

.
Agreed! Magnifying glass... You should be able to match the wear pattern. Put it together, look, then try it the other way. With some magnification you should be able to figure out proper orientation.

OK can't tell anything by looking at the journal. Perhaps if it was out and on a stand I could but not in the frame. The best I can do is looking at the sides of the bearing where they run on the crank. One side of the crank has considerably more wear than the other as does one side of the bearing. Of course it could be the top half of the bearing causing the wear.
I'm out of brake cleaner so when I restock, I'll clean it super good, add assembly lube and install as above with fingers and toes crossed.

So what would happen if I replaced only the bottom half of the bearing?

 

[Mullaney]

OK can't tell anything by looking at the journal. Perhaps if it was out and on a stand I could but not in the frame. The best I can do is looking at the sides of the bearing where they run on the crank. One side of the crank has considerably more wear than the other as does one side of the bearing. Of course it could be the top half of the bearing causing the wear.
I'm out of brake cleaner so when I restock, I'll clean it super good, add assembly lube and install as above with fingers and toes crossed.

So what would happen if I replaced only the bottom half of the bearing?

.
I don't think - just my opinion - that replacing half or only the "upper" and "lower" on one journal isn't going to be any better than getting half of a bearing set installed wrong.

You should be able to bolt the main back in place, then look - maybe even with a mirror to see the wear pattern and get the "fell out" bearing oriented correctly again. Hopefully.

My name isn't Ed Pink, so I don't know exactly how much weight my opinion carries.

 

[ldmack3]

.
I don't think - just my opinion - that replacing half or only the "upper" and "lower" on one journal isn't going to be any better than getting half of a bearing set installed wrong.

You should be able to bolt the main back in place, then look - maybe even with a mirror to see the wear pattern and get the "fell out" bearing oriented correctly again. Hopefully.

My name isn't Ed Pink, so I don't know exactly how much weight my opinion carries.

Pardon me for not understanding but how do you check the wear pattern if it's bolted in place, Ed? LOL

Also, what if the bearing is correct but the cap is not? Does the actual cap orientation matter?

 

[Mullaney]

Pardon me for not understanding but how do you check the wear pattern if it's bolted in place, Ed? LOL

Also, what if the bearing is correct but the cap is not? Does the actual cap orientation matter?

.
In a perfect world everything gets put back exactly like it was.
We all know that. But life happens...

I guess I wuz a MoRon and didn't think about the crank still being held in place - during an in-frame rebuild. Like a big dummy, I saw a main cap. Then I saw the same picture oriented like the upper half of the journal. It wasn't. It is/was the same cap turned ninety degrees.

Back to the guessing game.

Honestly I don't think it will be significant and if it is then you replace more parts next time.

 

[ldmack3]

OK. thanks for the input.
If I had only marked it life would be easier! But that won't happen again.

 

[ToddJK]

The best you can do is align the wear pattern on the side.of the bearing that closet matches the crank. Whether the bearing is now on top of on bottom shouldn't make any difference as it'll ride in the same groove so to speak, but if switched so the worn section on the bearing is facing a clean non worn spot on the crank, it may wear differently and cause more wear on the crank. Or just say screw it and get some new bearings.