Ether on mep-002a

[Keith_J]

I have not taken one apart but most starters have sprag clutch on the pinion drive which allows engine overrunning. Only the starter engagement mechanism pulls the pinion out of mesh with the ring gear.

 

[Ray70]

Verify the starter wiring is correct, then you could try putting a volt meter on the little "S" wire on the solenoid and see what happens when you let go of the start switch. If there is no voltage there with the switch release then most likely the solenoid on the starter is sticking on. If you still have power with the switch off you might have a sticking relay or something else is causing the relay to latch on. Don't rule out the starter just because you had it rebuilt.

 

[trooper632]

Well decided to abandon Gen #1, and try Gen#2. Bought them at the same time, Cleaned fuel tank, new oil and filter, new fuel filters, hit the start switch and looking at the fuel rod it jumps up so that's good. Preheat the glow plugs and it starts up in about 6 seconds. Ron it for about 30-40 minutes at 60 hertz, guessing that's around the 1800 rpm mark. Flip off the AC switch and shut it down. Started it up a second time and the Hertz gauge wont budge any ideas before I start reading. It runs smooth

 

[Ray70]

Do you mean its making power but the HZ gage is dead, or are you no longer producing power at all ?? Most common problem by far with the HZ gage failing is the frequency transducer mounted on the back inside the control cubicle. They fail at the drop of a hat!
You can test it by hooking a cord up to the AC side and plug into household power and see if the gage is reading 60ish. you can also try swapping parts off the other unit. The gage itself will rarely go bad, so if attaching a power cord to the transduces doesn't show anything on the gage, 99.99% sure the transducer is dead or about to die. If so replace it with a digital meter like Jim C's kit. It's not even worth replacing with another transducer. If it works on the power cord you'll have to start working backwards from the transducer.

 

[BADJOHN]

Do you mean its making power but the HZ gage is dead, or are you no longer producing power at all ?? Most common problem by far with the HZ gage failing is the frequency transducer mounted on the back inside the control cubicle. They fail at the drop of a hat!
You can test it by hooking a cord up to the AC side and plug into household power and see if the gage is reading 60ish. you can also try swapping parts off the other unit. The gage itself will rarely go bad, so if attaching a power cord to the transduces doesn't show anything on the gage, 99.99% sure the transducer is dead or about to die. If so replace it with a digital meter like Jim C's kit. It's not even worth replacing with another transducer. If it works on the power cord you'll have to start working backwards from the transducer.

Ray70 is right on! The transducer is what usually goes and I have no idea why. Replace the meter with a digital frequency meter, check out the ones on ebay, you can get one for less than 20 bucks. When you replace the meter, connect the new meters 120volt input to the input side of the transducer. The output of the transducer is/was a low voltage DC signal to the analog meter. So you can not use the old meter leads to connect the meter unless you move them to the input side of the transducer and that will bring the 120VAC signal to the front panel, then connect the old meter leads to the new digital meter. The cheap digital meters are more accurate as well.

 

[BADJOHN]

BADJOHN, just got the starter back from the rebuild shop.

Did they replace the solenoid, if so they may have a different terminal setup and they may have put a 12 volt coil on the 24 volt starter, it happens!

 

[Keith_J]

Frequency meters do fail, they are a sensitive ammeter, reading full scale when 200 micro amperes is flowing through them. That is 0.20 milliamperes. When reading 60 Hz, it is only 100 micro amperes so it isn't much force pushing the needle against a tiny clock spring that is wound from wire smaller than a hair in diameter. Those bearings for the needle must withstand the vibrations and will move with the slightest of friction.

yes, transducers also fail, most because of accidental shorting of the meter leads.

 

[lxawolf]

One thing that I have use to verify my MEP-003a is a Kilowatt meeter. http://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU you plug it into the accessory outlet and it can tell you a verity of things. Hertz, voltage, ect. Its a handy little device. This can be a temporary work around on setting up the RPM'S and hertz to ensure your at the correct setting. I always check with a digital gauge. Like many others the 20-30 year old mechanical ones might not be accurate as they were from the factory.

 

[trooper632]

Ok, So I took off the starter (the one I took to the starter repair shop), again and took it to the starter repair shop again. Had him bench test the starter before he put on a new solenoid I had ordered. It tested just fine, everything worked great. Before I took it off and took it to him I tried to start it again. After letting off the starter switch it still would continue to crank, so I pulled the single wire off the starter marked "S", (I was told by the repair shop it should stop turning over if it was a bad solenoid). It still continued cranking over until I pulled the positive battery cable. So I am totally confused on what could be the problem. Any ideas?????

 

[R Racing]

Well decided to abandon Gen #1, and try Gen#2. Bought them at the same time, Cleaned fuel tank, new oil and filter, new fuel filters, hit the start switch and looking at the fuel rod it jumps up so that's good. Preheat the glow plugs and it starts up in about 6 seconds. Ron it for about 30-40 minutes at 60 hertz, guessing that's around the 1800 rpm mark. Flip off the AC switch and shut it down. Started it up a second time and the Hertz gauge wont budge any ideas before I start reading. It runs smooth

It could mean your field may need flashed. Does your voltage gauge work as well ?

 

[Ray70]

There is a problem with the starter. If you remove the "S" wire it kills power to the solenoid, but if it continues to crank there has to be something wrong with the starter itself. Sounds like the bendix is hanging up somehow and keeping the solenoid stuck in ( which will cause power to continue to flow to the starter motor).
I wonder if the gear could be binding against the flywheel and making it get stuck "on" Can you swap the starter out of the other machine?

 

[trooper632]

Yes Ray70, that's my next move, I am having Lasik eye surgery today so hopefully, tomorrow I will switch em out and see what happens

 

[Ray70]

Good luck with the Lasik, I did it about 12 years ago, best decision I ever made! I'm very happy with the results.

 

[trooper632]

Ok, so I took the starter off of the running Mep-002 and installed it on the Mep-002 that I could not get started, due to a bad starter I believed. Once I put the known working starter on the Mep-002, and upon turning on the start switch it activated the fuel rod at the IP and cranked over just fine. So it turns out that the starter or solenoid are bad, so I will drop it off at the repair shop, he already has a 24 volt solenoid waiting for me. The generator started but I had to manually push the fuel rod all the way up and hold it there for it to keep running and it was only running on one cylinder. it was trying to run on both but just couldn't do it, I think the IP might have some residual bad fuel in it still. The fuel rod seemed like it was almost all the way up, and me pushing on it only moved it a fraction of an inch but I am guessing the pump might has alittle crud in it, Thoughts????

 

[R Racing]

Did you bleed both lines to the injectors. I had 1 that had more air in it than I thought, and had to bleed it a second time to get both firing.

 

[trooper632]

Yes I did

 

[R Racing]

Well it has to be fuel. Air. Or compression related. Did you soak your pump good ?

 

[trooper632]

No, I didn't take off the pump, really don't want to never have done one before I was hoping it would clear up]

 

[Ray70]

The easiest thing to do is probably to check the injector line for air and fuel flow again. Start it up again and rebleed both cylinders. If its only running on one it will probably stall when you try bleeding the working cylinder. If bleeding shows good fuel flow and no sign of air you'll have to look deeper at the injectors, IP or maybe even cylinder compression. If you start it up you should quickly see a difference in temperature on the exhaust or cylinder of the dead cylinder. Then you can concentrate on that cylinder. If bleeding doesn't help you could try swapping the injectors and see if the problem follows the injector or if it stays with that cylinder.

 

[trooper632]

Ok, back to the starter. I had a new 24 volt solenoid put on the original starter and it was bench tested at the starter repair shop. It worked fine, put the starter back in the perfectly running generator and tried to start it. SAME problem, It continues to turn over when I let off the start switch, I am at a total loss at this point. It has to be something inside the starter itself but yet it tests fine on the bench so I don't know what to do. And on the Injector issue I havnt even tried to figure that out yet, I want to get one thing fixed at a time.