Flat tire

[donquijote]

Ive never run with pvc but know people that do. They balance better and are easier to take in and out. I have run them with nothing in them. Its just like a standard 16.5tubeless wheel at that point.

Good to know. What tire pressure did you run going tubeless all together?

 

[Special T]

Depending on the tire wheel combo they are rated 50psi ish some are more. They air down real nice and lots of guys recenter them to run on thier smaller 4x4

 

[donquijote]

tempted to run tubeless for less weight, and better balancing.

Sent from my SM-N915P using Tapatalk

 

[Special T]

Im planning on pvc for my wheeling rig its amasing how much grip you get at 5-10lbs with dual bead locks.

 

[ClarkeF]

I have run them with nothing in them. Its just like a standard 16.5tubeless wheel at that point.

This is an incorrect statement. They are NOT "just like" a standard 16.5" tubeless wheel. The 12-bolt wheels are designed and intended for use only with with either a runflat/beadlock combo or a beadlock. (As an aside they are also DOT approved in this configuration). The difference between the HMMWV 12-bolt wheel and other 16.5" civilian wheels that there is no bead retention feature designed in the wheel itself - they rely on the inserts. When deflated and rolling, the tire will walk itself right off the HMMWV wheel, where regular wheels are designed to try and retain at least one bead as a safety feature.

Can you run without a beadlock or runflat/beadlock on these wheels? Yes. Should you? Not if you plan to drive on the street. The other issue you will have if you remove the beadlock is that the factory jack will not fit under the A-Arm if that wheel is deflated and on the ground. You need a low-profile race-style jack in order to be able to jack that wheel up.

Related to an earlier post where someone replaced the runflat but didn't use the (expensive) runflat grease because they don't intend to drive up to 30 miles at 30 MPH. The grease is there to provide lubrication between the rubber runflat and the inner rubber surface of the tire. If you think about 1500 lbs of pressure rubbing rubber against rubber that will generate a significant amount of heat. The grease is designed to keep the wheel you are driving on from catching fire. Not an issue if you don't drive anywhere other than to pull over to the side of the road - but don't drive any distance without that lubricant. Some people have successfully scraped out their old runflat grease and reapplied it to the inside of their new tire..

 

[86m1028]

This is an incorrect statement. They are NOT "just like" a standard 16.5" tubeless wheel. The 12-bolt wheels are designed and intended for use only with with either a runflat/beadlock combo or a beadlock. (As an aside they are also DOT approved in this configuration). The difference between the HMMWV 12-bolt wheel and other 16.5" civilian wheels that there is no bead retention feature designed in the wheel itself - they rely on the inserts. When deflated and rolling, the tire will walk itself right off the HMMWV wheel, where regular wheels are designed to try and retain at least one bead as a safety feature.

Can you run without a beadlock or runflat/beadlock on these wheels? Yes. Should you? Not if you plan to drive on the street. The other issue you will have if you remove the beadlock is that the factory jack will not fit under the A-Arm if that wheel is deflated and on the ground. You need a low-profile race-style jack in order to be able to jack that wheel up.

Related to an earlier post where someone replaced the runflat but didn't use the (expensive) runflat grease because they don't intend to drive up to 30 miles at 30 MPH. The grease is there to provide lubrication between the rubber runflat and the inner rubber surface of the tire. If you think about 1500 lbs of pressure rubbing rubber against rubber that will generate a significant amount of heat. The grease is designed to keep the wheel you are driving on from catching fire. Not an issue if you don't drive anywhere other than to pull over to the side of the road - but don't drive any distance without that lubricant. Some people have successfully scraped out their old runflat grease and reapplied it to the inside of their new tire..

Your statement about the 16.5's is INCORRECT !
They are exactly like a civi 16.5 wheel bead wise.
Thats why they got away from using them, no bead retention.

Also the grease packets are for when the tire is driven flat.
If you notice they are taped to the runflat, not needed until the tire looses pressure.
Once the tire looses pressure & comes into contact with the runflat, busting the packets to help cool the now flat tire & runflat friction.

 

[Special T]

I will post some pics later of a hummer wheel and a civi wheel and you can see if there is a difference.

16.5 rim size came into vouge in the early 70s late 60s when campers in the back of pickups became all the rage. The .5 indicated a tapered bead. It helps a tubeless tire to hold for more weight carring capacity. You will notice commercial vehicles using tapered bead tubless tires in 19.5 22.5 24.5 &26.5 in some offroad farm construction sizes.the only thing different about a hummer wheel is its a bolt together tubless wheel. If it will hold air and seal it will work.

It is much easier to loose bead contact if you air down with no bead lock. If however you keep it near max pressure 35-50psi there is very little chance of it loosing contact. You wont have as much traction with fully inflated tires so there is a trade off.
I have and know MANY people who sucessfully run hummer tires &wheels with no beadlock. Granted its on roads. Vechicles sized from toyotas to full size dodges and chevs.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Your statement about the 16.5's is INCORRECT !
They are exactly like a civi 16.5 wheel bead wise.
Thats why they got away from using them, no bead retention.

Also the grease packets are for when the tire is driven flat.
If you notice they are taped to the runflat, not needed until the tire looses pressure.
Once the tire looses pressure & comes into contact with the runflat, busting the packets to help cool the now flat tire & runflat friction.

you are half right...the packet is taped to the RF, but the beads for all the HMMWV rims require a RF...but have at it.
ive tested them and I can get the bead to come off with minimal strike to the sidewall on low air conditions.
i mount these tires to rims in my shop all the time and see first hand what happens when customers refuse to use the RF.
ive had100% reversal of thinking once they pay to have done twice and then they have no further issues.

 

[Special T]

The key to the above statements is "low air" it is quite true that 16.5 dont work on low airpressure with out the RF or pvc. The black wheel is the hummer wheel. From a mounting perspective they are exactly the same. With out a run flat they can even be changed the conventional way without unbolting. The single wheel is a 16" truck rim I tried to highlight the bump that helps trap a tire to keep it from coming off the bead under lower air conditions. They really help if you air down and try to go straight and keep trurning to a min.

One tip. If you try and mount/demount on a hummer wheel w out runflats you have to be very careful. The stem on the inside well of the wheel is of a larger design and can hang up and tear the bead.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Low air is a common issues due to leakage from the o-rings installed incorrectly. I have 12 and 24bolts rims brande new from the military that show up deflated. And continue to slow leak over a short period of time. The question is " can you run without RF's" ...and my answer is NO, it's the design of the wheel.
HMMWV's were around before hummers, the rims used on hummers are the same...and I'm not taking about 1 piece or aluminum wheels. We are talking split rims...to each his own, run with or without...I don't care.
i know what the military standard is and that's runflats must be installed, and it's not just due to running on the RF if the tire is shot out.

 

[Special T]

I would add that im not sure why you would want hummer wheels with out a runflat or pvc insert. The whole reason why the wheels are cool is because they are a street legal dual bead lock. If your personal issue is how hard they are to get in and out there are several solutions available that A lot of 4x4 forums members have used sucessfully.

 

[Special T]

Most civi 16.5 wheels do not have the bump like the flat bead 16" do. I have seen some old 16.5" wheels that did but they were pretty old and pretty narrow.

 

[bjones99]

I have a 1989 Army HMMWV with standard 37x12.50R16.5LT tires with 12 bolt two piece rims and have been having trouble balancing the wheels. Initially, I wanted to keep the run-flats that came in the tire. However, I have realized that I would prefer to have a smoother ride over the run-flat which A) no one sees and B) realistically, I would rarely use.

I am thinking about pulling the run-flats as this could be contributing to the balancing issue and replacing with a PVC insert to maintain the beadlock feature while reducing weight and balancing issues. Also, considering usinb balancing media like BBs to help with the balancing.

My plans are just to drive the HMMWV to the occasional antique auto show and do some light to medium duty trail riding.

Thoughts?

 

[Action]

if your tires have the lube inside, the bbs will stick in it. Look for Balance Masters or Centramatic wheel balancers.

 

[Special T]

Additionally ANY moisture inside the tire will cause the powder to clump. Unless you live in the desert I wouldnt use powder. Pvc inserts make a big difference in 2 ways. 1 they are much lighter 2 what little weight they do have is close to the wheel. Part of the issue with the runflats is that the chunk of rubber designed to drive on while flat makes ballencing more difficult. There are videos on here of guys using antifreeze to balance 1400r20. I have used it to seal up weather cracked bias hummer tires. Supposidly the active ingredient in a product called "tire life" is in antifreeze. Both products make it much harder to apply a nail hole patch.

 

[darr3239]

What's wrong with normal lead wheel weights? Do the runflats rotate around when driven?

 

[ClarkeF]

What's wrong with normal lead wheel weights? Do the runflats rotate around when driven?

The 1-piece runflats used in the 12bolt and later wheels do not move around - they are clamped into position between tire bead and wheel. Some of the earlier 2-piece runflats used on one-piece Hummer wheels would sometimes come apart. Those RF only locked one bead.

The problem with these is you have a 150lb rotating mass and sometimes you can't balance it with lead. I've seen a couple points of lead on HMMWV and Hummer 12-bolt wheels - and the wheel still isn't balanced.

I highly suggest that if you are looking for a wheel balance find a shop with a Hunter Road-force balancing machine - the same kind used at the factory.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Don't use rim bead weights...use stick on weights on the inside of the Rims, have them
static balanced. The rim weights can be torn off while 4 wheeling off road.
also...I have many tires not balanced with run flats and no issues. The truck doesn't go fast enough to
require the same level of balancing a regular truck or car tire due to speed....they just don't go
Fast enough that it creates any wheel hop.
i have customers with no RF,s and balanced tires and they still can't get rid of minor shuttering and shake
above 60mph....it's a common issue.