Couchoffroad
New member
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- Location
- Denver Colorado
Sorry that my first post on here is not on good technical discussions for which we have a wealth of info to give, but rather on having to give a response to the ranting of Eric (Big Bison). So for everyone that put forth the time and effort to read his rants and make assumptions, I hope you consider the whole story. BTW feel free to call me at 888-X-UNIMOG as I am not much of a typer and I am more than happy to share our expertise on Unimog and 419 series.
To start, as you can probably tell Erics complaints about me and Couch Off-Road are blown out of proportion on what seems like drunk ranting...Yes we have been waiting for titles on Erics HMMH and our own HMMH for months now due to paperwork errors (not Erics fault) with government issued vehicles. I did tell him that we could get him a colorado title for it, but did not say it was already in hand. If it was in hand, it would have been delivered with the truck.
The complaints on “charging the batteries” and what not... you will see on the invoice and in the following emails between Eric and Couch Off-Road that these were at no charge to him and the amounts were listed on the invoice and then discounted off. So he did not pay for anything extra or absurd charges... It appears he forgot to mention that he actually did not pay for that!! N[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]oted [/FONT]in our emails we said “The other items listed that you are arguing about are just for your knowledge and at no charge to you. So yes we did some repairs and test drove before delivery at no charge to you. I'd be surprised to hear if most customers would be upset at that”.
Eric sent us the SEE because he thought the head gasket needed to be replaced due to an over injecting ether system. After we reviewed the truck at Couch Off-Road, we informed him the head gasket was fine and did not need replacing, saving him $2,000 in parts and labor. It was his batteries were dead and at prolonged idle the trucks all put out gray smoke. There were some small repairs done to his vehicle like parking brake repair, and trying to bend the hood back into shape to fit the machine (unsuccessfully - which came to us bent and not fitting). Eric wanted the hydronic unit installed (like we had done on his HMMH), which yes..should have been installed by now and is my mistake for not having that done by now.
One reason I halted working on the SEE is Eric has been pushing to install a $14,000 snow blower on it that won't work because of the ridiculous volume and pressure needed to run the blower he insists on getting.
*****TECHNICAL INFO***** 419 SEE has 26-30 gpm at around 2,300 psi with an overdriven PTO at around 18% overdriven. The system Eric insists on requires 46 gpm at 3,900 psi. This would be driven on a direct 1:1 drive. Since the pump is so large it would have to be driven off the belly mount PTO which would require at least a couple thousand dollars of mercedes OEM PTO drive parts and housing. With that being said the SEE tractor 1[SUP]st[/SUP] gear would not be low enough to be at the right engine rpm to deliver the power and rpm needed. Realistically putting this system together could have cost between $25K and $37K to engineer and employ with a better than 60% chance of failure. If I am as bad of a guy as Eric says or a “mog thief” as so claimed, we could have done what he asked for and let him waste his money to have something that wont work.
The SEE could have been picked up whenever he wanted after the repairs are paid, which was only $580. The proper address is on all the invoices he has received from us. He calls me up rant claiming we have an invalid business address, we are delinquent on our taxes, and that my business is for sale.... All of which are bizarre and untrue... this is when I asked if he was drunk and yes hung up on him.
There are a hand full of inaccurate and embellished comments but this is a cool technical forum not a lame as soap opera. Apologies for the delays and miscommunication to Eric but slander is definitely a punishable offense according to our lawyers. For any further insite into this unfortunate happening keep reading the actual email communication below.
Please feel free to call our parts and service department at 888-X-UNIMOG for free advise on any questions you may have for your 419 Series or Unimog.
I know this is not the place for ranting and name calling and will not continue this thread to be as such. Thank you to those you have spoke your mind to keep this forum/thread what it is suppose to be, a place to ask questions and receive smart answers and good technical knowledge for all.
Thank you for your time and have a wonderful holiday!
EMAIL COMMUNICATION 12/14/2016
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Couch to Eric: [/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Hi Eric,
[/FONT]
I have attached the outstanding invoices for the SEE and HMMH.
It sounds like a truck was here to pick up the SEE but we do not have a
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]loading dock and it was an enclosed trailer that the SEE would notfit into. [/FONT]
The truck will be available to be released to you once the invoices are
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]paid. [/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Wire transfer preferable or a certified check. Payment info is on thebottom of the invoices. total amount due is $X,XXX.[/FONT]
The title paperwork was overnighted to us yesterday so I am waiting to
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]receive it. [/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Call us if you have any questions. [/FONT]
Thanks,
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Cindy
[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]couchoffroad.com[/FONT]
888-X-Unimog ext 500
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]--------------------------------------------[/FONT]
Eric to Couch:
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If you call me, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif](XXX-XXX-XXXX)[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], I'm happy to pay the bill on the SEE via CC so I can have my SEE backand we can go our separate ways.[/FONT]
I'm not going to pay the bill on the HMMH. You can't charge me post-sale for work done to a truck pre-sale, like batteries, especially given how the HMMH doesn't have new batteries to begin with. How is it I owe anything, when I paid the balance due for the hydronic unit before taking delivery, to square my account? Now you're billing me for non-elective work done pre-sale, when I don't even have title? I'm not liable for those repairs, even if it was my truck, because the agreement was it'd be in working order, not that I was buying bad batteries I needed to pay to replace. I'm happy to return your HMMH for a refund on the purchase price, because it's still your truck, I don't have title to it.
Even if I did have title, I can't believe you're charging me for new batteries, we discussed how I wasn't interested in new batteries, and one of 'em is dead now anyway because those are not new batteries, so what's up with billing me for new batteries with manufacturing dates from 2010/2011? I held up my end of the HMMH deal months ago, all I lack is a title. If that isn't forthcoming, but you guys have no problem billing me for pre-sale work on the HMMH, then yeah, if y'all don't want to come and get it, I'm happy to take the loss on shipping to return it, which *should* be at your expense because it's still your truck, but I really want to cut ties ASAP, this isn't square dealing.
-Eric
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]---------------------------------------[/FONT]
Eric to Couch:
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Doesn't surprise me there was a misunderstanding about what all was included in the purchase price. If I get the title I was promised, I'm happy to pay for the hydronic unit, but only if it's my truck. The batteries, otoh, are an infuriating charge because that work was *NOT* done, probably because I never agreed to it. TITLE. I just need title to the HMMH or a refund. Just to cut ties, I'll pay for the hydronic unit, but not without the title.[/FONT]
-Eric
---------------------------
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Couch to Eric:[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Hi Eric [/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]If you can show me receipt or proof of payment for the heater than thats great and i apologize for the double invoice. I have no record ofreceipt from you other than the $35,000 for the truck and the $576 transport. Since we were picking up the SEE from you i think we werenot as adamant to have everything paid for before delivery. But like i said if you do have records of this being paid please let me know. [/FONT]
If you look at the invoice, You were not charged for batteries, it was a half hour for charging them (my mistake on the mispell) which was
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]removed in the discount of $1,113.75. That discount was also for the hours of repairing the throttle and jay took 6.25 hours off the heater installation because jay thought it took too long. So the total discount was for throttle linkage at 1.5 hours, .5 hours to charge batteries, and 6.25 additional hours of heater install removed. Total 8.25 hours at 135/hr is the discount of $1,113.75. [/FONT]
The title is coming. There were issues and delays with governnment sending it out. It is overnighted to us yesterday and should be
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]received today. I will need your physical address to send it to you or we can possibly send it with the driver when your SEE will bedelivered. Just so you know (not that it helps) but we are still waiting on two titles of our own from june as well from them. [/FONT]
Please review and send me any proof of payments you may have other than the $35,000 and $576. If i do have errors i apologize.
Thanks
------------------
Eric to Couch:
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I'd say I'm happy to pay the bill on the SEE, except by now I was hoping it'd be tens of thousands, so not that happy. Happy to pay the HMMH bill upon receipt of title. But also, not that happy.[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]----------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Couch to Eric:[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Hi Eric,[/FONT]
I just want to be clear that you were never invoiced for batteries. I am not sure where you see that you were charged for them. If you were
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]charged for batteries, it would be a lot more than $67.50, which was for service on charging the batteries already in the unit (which wasalso part of the discount and explained in my last email). [/FONT]
I know your upset about the title taking too long, and we are working hard on getting this to you as soon as possible.
Thank you,
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]----------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Eric to Couch:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"I have no record of receipt from you other than the $35,000 for thetruck and the $576 transport."[/FONT]
If, back when I asked how we could square up on the HMMH, I was only presented a bill for transport, then it only reaffirmed my as-discussed expectation that the other work was included in the purchase cost. News to me, this many months later, that the $576 didn't square us.
"That discount was also for the hours of repairing the throttle and jay took 6.25 hours off the heater installation because jay thought it took too long."
The purchase price was for a running HMMH, not one needing throttle work that I haven't heard about before today, but can't fathom how I'm liable to pay for a pre-sales issue, including test-drive? Seems like the sort of thing the seller needs to do *before* putting a vehicle up for sale, vs. a surprise charge 9 months later. Makes sense to me now why the HMMH doesn't run right... next thing we were going to check on this end was the throttle. I don't know from where I sit, whether this work was even done because there's no trust anymore, but if so it wasn't done competently or with any transparency to the customer that I was expected to pay for it, let alone that it needed doing? Don't tell me about how it's a "discounted" bogus charge, please.
A used vehicle dealer billing the customer, let alone nine months later, for having to charge bad batteries, fix a throttle, etc. is deplorable especially when I haven't heard about any throttle problems before today, just beginning to suspect that failure trying to make *your* truck run right. I don't want to argue -- if that's somehow an outrageous statement on my part, then start an Internet poll and see what everyone else thinks about this sort of charge from a used vehicle dealer? Again, tens of thousands of dollars I tried paying Couch Offroad, months later the response is none of that work
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]done, plus bogus & spiteful nickel-and-dime charges?[/FONT]
Not happy. I'll pay for the bogus charges upon receipt of title, but only to expedite ending this abortive business relationship as painlessly as possible. But they're still bogus charges.
Yes, I can wire the money, anything to have title to the HMMH and possession of the SEE and never deal with CORE again, would perfectly describe my current priority in life. Sorry to find you in the middle of this, as much as I got a real kick out of catching up w/ you the other month.
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]-Eric[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Couch to Eric:[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]I get it, but you are arguing points/details that are already at no charge to you....you are not paying for. All you are paying for is the heater and the install which is what you wanted. The other items listed that you are arguing about are just for your knowledge and at no charge to you. So yes we did some repairs and test drove before delivery at no charge to you. I'd be surprised to hear if most customers would be upset at that. [/FONT]
I know your angry and want this to be done. So thank you for your patience thus far. Sounds like Steamboat is getting some good snow,
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Hope its a good season for you up there!. [/FONT]
Thanks,
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Cindy[/FONT]
To start, as you can probably tell Erics complaints about me and Couch Off-Road are blown out of proportion on what seems like drunk ranting...Yes we have been waiting for titles on Erics HMMH and our own HMMH for months now due to paperwork errors (not Erics fault) with government issued vehicles. I did tell him that we could get him a colorado title for it, but did not say it was already in hand. If it was in hand, it would have been delivered with the truck.
The complaints on “charging the batteries” and what not... you will see on the invoice and in the following emails between Eric and Couch Off-Road that these were at no charge to him and the amounts were listed on the invoice and then discounted off. So he did not pay for anything extra or absurd charges... It appears he forgot to mention that he actually did not pay for that!! N[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]oted [/FONT]in our emails we said “The other items listed that you are arguing about are just for your knowledge and at no charge to you. So yes we did some repairs and test drove before delivery at no charge to you. I'd be surprised to hear if most customers would be upset at that”.
Eric sent us the SEE because he thought the head gasket needed to be replaced due to an over injecting ether system. After we reviewed the truck at Couch Off-Road, we informed him the head gasket was fine and did not need replacing, saving him $2,000 in parts and labor. It was his batteries were dead and at prolonged idle the trucks all put out gray smoke. There were some small repairs done to his vehicle like parking brake repair, and trying to bend the hood back into shape to fit the machine (unsuccessfully - which came to us bent and not fitting). Eric wanted the hydronic unit installed (like we had done on his HMMH), which yes..should have been installed by now and is my mistake for not having that done by now.
One reason I halted working on the SEE is Eric has been pushing to install a $14,000 snow blower on it that won't work because of the ridiculous volume and pressure needed to run the blower he insists on getting.
*****TECHNICAL INFO***** 419 SEE has 26-30 gpm at around 2,300 psi with an overdriven PTO at around 18% overdriven. The system Eric insists on requires 46 gpm at 3,900 psi. This would be driven on a direct 1:1 drive. Since the pump is so large it would have to be driven off the belly mount PTO which would require at least a couple thousand dollars of mercedes OEM PTO drive parts and housing. With that being said the SEE tractor 1[SUP]st[/SUP] gear would not be low enough to be at the right engine rpm to deliver the power and rpm needed. Realistically putting this system together could have cost between $25K and $37K to engineer and employ with a better than 60% chance of failure. If I am as bad of a guy as Eric says or a “mog thief” as so claimed, we could have done what he asked for and let him waste his money to have something that wont work.
The SEE could have been picked up whenever he wanted after the repairs are paid, which was only $580. The proper address is on all the invoices he has received from us. He calls me up rant claiming we have an invalid business address, we are delinquent on our taxes, and that my business is for sale.... All of which are bizarre and untrue... this is when I asked if he was drunk and yes hung up on him.
There are a hand full of inaccurate and embellished comments but this is a cool technical forum not a lame as soap opera. Apologies for the delays and miscommunication to Eric but slander is definitely a punishable offense according to our lawyers. For any further insite into this unfortunate happening keep reading the actual email communication below.
Please feel free to call our parts and service department at 888-X-UNIMOG for free advise on any questions you may have for your 419 Series or Unimog.
I know this is not the place for ranting and name calling and will not continue this thread to be as such. Thank you to those you have spoke your mind to keep this forum/thread what it is suppose to be, a place to ask questions and receive smart answers and good technical knowledge for all.
Thank you for your time and have a wonderful holiday!
EMAIL COMMUNICATION 12/14/2016
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Couch to Eric: [/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Hi Eric,
[/FONT]
I have attached the outstanding invoices for the SEE and HMMH.
It sounds like a truck was here to pick up the SEE but we do not have a
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]loading dock and it was an enclosed trailer that the SEE would notfit into. [/FONT]
The truck will be available to be released to you once the invoices are
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]paid. [/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Wire transfer preferable or a certified check. Payment info is on thebottom of the invoices. total amount due is $X,XXX.[/FONT]
The title paperwork was overnighted to us yesterday so I am waiting to
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]receive it. [/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Call us if you have any questions. [/FONT]
Thanks,
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Cindy
[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]couchoffroad.com[/FONT]
888-X-Unimog ext 500
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]--------------------------------------------[/FONT]
Eric to Couch:
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If you call me, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif](XXX-XXX-XXXX)[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], I'm happy to pay the bill on the SEE via CC so I can have my SEE backand we can go our separate ways.[/FONT]
I'm not going to pay the bill on the HMMH. You can't charge me post-sale for work done to a truck pre-sale, like batteries, especially given how the HMMH doesn't have new batteries to begin with. How is it I owe anything, when I paid the balance due for the hydronic unit before taking delivery, to square my account? Now you're billing me for non-elective work done pre-sale, when I don't even have title? I'm not liable for those repairs, even if it was my truck, because the agreement was it'd be in working order, not that I was buying bad batteries I needed to pay to replace. I'm happy to return your HMMH for a refund on the purchase price, because it's still your truck, I don't have title to it.
Even if I did have title, I can't believe you're charging me for new batteries, we discussed how I wasn't interested in new batteries, and one of 'em is dead now anyway because those are not new batteries, so what's up with billing me for new batteries with manufacturing dates from 2010/2011? I held up my end of the HMMH deal months ago, all I lack is a title. If that isn't forthcoming, but you guys have no problem billing me for pre-sale work on the HMMH, then yeah, if y'all don't want to come and get it, I'm happy to take the loss on shipping to return it, which *should* be at your expense because it's still your truck, but I really want to cut ties ASAP, this isn't square dealing.
-Eric
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]---------------------------------------[/FONT]
Eric to Couch:
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Doesn't surprise me there was a misunderstanding about what all was included in the purchase price. If I get the title I was promised, I'm happy to pay for the hydronic unit, but only if it's my truck. The batteries, otoh, are an infuriating charge because that work was *NOT* done, probably because I never agreed to it. TITLE. I just need title to the HMMH or a refund. Just to cut ties, I'll pay for the hydronic unit, but not without the title.[/FONT]
-Eric
---------------------------
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Couch to Eric:[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Hi Eric [/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]If you can show me receipt or proof of payment for the heater than thats great and i apologize for the double invoice. I have no record ofreceipt from you other than the $35,000 for the truck and the $576 transport. Since we were picking up the SEE from you i think we werenot as adamant to have everything paid for before delivery. But like i said if you do have records of this being paid please let me know. [/FONT]
If you look at the invoice, You were not charged for batteries, it was a half hour for charging them (my mistake on the mispell) which was
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]removed in the discount of $1,113.75. That discount was also for the hours of repairing the throttle and jay took 6.25 hours off the heater installation because jay thought it took too long. So the total discount was for throttle linkage at 1.5 hours, .5 hours to charge batteries, and 6.25 additional hours of heater install removed. Total 8.25 hours at 135/hr is the discount of $1,113.75. [/FONT]
The title is coming. There were issues and delays with governnment sending it out. It is overnighted to us yesterday and should be
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]received today. I will need your physical address to send it to you or we can possibly send it with the driver when your SEE will bedelivered. Just so you know (not that it helps) but we are still waiting on two titles of our own from june as well from them. [/FONT]
Please review and send me any proof of payments you may have other than the $35,000 and $576. If i do have errors i apologize.
Thanks
------------------
Eric to Couch:
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I'd say I'm happy to pay the bill on the SEE, except by now I was hoping it'd be tens of thousands, so not that happy. Happy to pay the HMMH bill upon receipt of title. But also, not that happy.[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]----------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Couch to Eric:[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Hi Eric,[/FONT]
I just want to be clear that you were never invoiced for batteries. I am not sure where you see that you were charged for them. If you were
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]charged for batteries, it would be a lot more than $67.50, which was for service on charging the batteries already in the unit (which wasalso part of the discount and explained in my last email). [/FONT]
I know your upset about the title taking too long, and we are working hard on getting this to you as soon as possible.
Thank you,
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]----------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Eric to Couch:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"I have no record of receipt from you other than the $35,000 for thetruck and the $576 transport."[/FONT]
If, back when I asked how we could square up on the HMMH, I was only presented a bill for transport, then it only reaffirmed my as-discussed expectation that the other work was included in the purchase cost. News to me, this many months later, that the $576 didn't square us.
"That discount was also for the hours of repairing the throttle and jay took 6.25 hours off the heater installation because jay thought it took too long."
The purchase price was for a running HMMH, not one needing throttle work that I haven't heard about before today, but can't fathom how I'm liable to pay for a pre-sales issue, including test-drive? Seems like the sort of thing the seller needs to do *before* putting a vehicle up for sale, vs. a surprise charge 9 months later. Makes sense to me now why the HMMH doesn't run right... next thing we were going to check on this end was the throttle. I don't know from where I sit, whether this work was even done because there's no trust anymore, but if so it wasn't done competently or with any transparency to the customer that I was expected to pay for it, let alone that it needed doing? Don't tell me about how it's a "discounted" bogus charge, please.
A used vehicle dealer billing the customer, let alone nine months later, for having to charge bad batteries, fix a throttle, etc. is deplorable especially when I haven't heard about any throttle problems before today, just beginning to suspect that failure trying to make *your* truck run right. I don't want to argue -- if that's somehow an outrageous statement on my part, then start an Internet poll and see what everyone else thinks about this sort of charge from a used vehicle dealer? Again, tens of thousands of dollars I tried paying Couch Offroad, months later the response is none of that work
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]done, plus bogus & spiteful nickel-and-dime charges?[/FONT]
Not happy. I'll pay for the bogus charges upon receipt of title, but only to expedite ending this abortive business relationship as painlessly as possible. But they're still bogus charges.
Yes, I can wire the money, anything to have title to the HMMH and possession of the SEE and never deal with CORE again, would perfectly describe my current priority in life. Sorry to find you in the middle of this, as much as I got a real kick out of catching up w/ you the other month.
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]-Eric[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Couch to Eric:[/FONT]
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]I get it, but you are arguing points/details that are already at no charge to you....you are not paying for. All you are paying for is the heater and the install which is what you wanted. The other items listed that you are arguing about are just for your knowledge and at no charge to you. So yes we did some repairs and test drove before delivery at no charge to you. I'd be surprised to hear if most customers would be upset at that. [/FONT]
I know your angry and want this to be done. So thank you for your patience thus far. Sounds like Steamboat is getting some good snow,
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Hope its a good season for you up there!. [/FONT]
Thanks,
[FONT=ArialMT, sans-serif]Cindy[/FONT]
, Took me over an hour with torch and torque to get a single tire off me SEE.
![DSCN1548[1].jpg](https://www.steelsoldiers.com/data/attachments/450/450483-7fa02dd574e382b3b4be9adca0df88a8.jpg "DSCN1548[1].jpg")
![DSCN0033[1].jpg](https://www.steelsoldiers.com/data/attachments/450/450771-f262164d6ef34f183866fd962c9efb95.jpg "DSCN0033[1].jpg")
