FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[General Hood]

How do we know that the "fallout" isn't really chicken poop? If he builds a shelter for the chicken, he may need one for himself, too.

You can call me crazy but.........

 

[Another Ahab]

View attachment 679738

Doggone it, you ARE right.I don't mean nothin'. I apologize.

 

[General Hood]

Well, I found the issue on the SEE, brake shoe broke and wedged. I replaced both rear brakes, wishing I had the assist of Flufarm's crane when I went to put the wheels back on, ugh.

Now for the rest of the story (Paul Harvey Quote)........the former no air leak SEE is now air leak SEE. The bottom of the smaller air pressure tank is rusted out (bad) so it looks like I will be searching for a replacement. And yes there's more. The engine is now running rough when accelerated (new issue). Bled the fuel line at the filter canister and as luck would have it, I have air in the fuel system. Further troubleshooting to be continued another day.

The good news is, one day I will probably end up with a brand new SEE, at the tune of about $180K, replacing one piece at a time

 

[The FLU farm]

Well, I found the issue on the SEE, brake shoe broke and wedged. I replaced both rear brakes, wishing I had the assist of Flufarm's crane when I went to put the wheels back on, ugh.
Now for the rest of the story (Paul Harvey Quote)........the former no air leak SEE is now air leak SEE. The bottom of the smaller air pressure tank is rusted out (bad) so it looks like I will be searching for a replacement. And yes there's more. The engine is now running rough when accelerated (new issue). Bled the fuel line at the filter canister and as luck would have it, I have air in the fuel system. Further troubleshooting to be continued another day.

There's an easy way to do it, without a crane. I'll tell you when you get here. As my dad used to say when I was a very small child and had fallen: "Come over here and I'll help you get up."

As far as the rest of your misfortune goes, it's due to voodoo. There were certain items that you were supposed to buy, but didn't.
I'll stop that spell now and let you catch up with the repairs. That decision is obviously subject to change, at any moment, for almost any reason.

PS. The paint sure is flawless, though.

 

[General Hood]

There's an easy way to do it, without a crane. I'll tell you when you get here. As my dad used to say when I was a very small child and had fallen: "Come over here and I'll help you get up."

As far as the rest of your misfortune goes, it's due to voodoo. There were certain items that you were supposed to buy, but didn't.
I'll stop that spell now and let you catch up with the repairs. That decision is obviously subject to change, at any moment, for almost any reason.

PS. The paint sure is flawless, though.

I claim first dibs on the air tank off your parts SEE

 

[The FLU farm]

I claim first dibs on the air tank off your parts SEE

I figured you would - so it's now filled with saltwater and cat urine, waiting for you to pick it up.

 

[General Hood]

I figured you would - so it's now filled with saltwater and cat urine, waiting for you to pick it up.

Don't forget I'm holding 2 brand new shiny SEE starters for you

 

[peakbagger]

There isn't anything special about those air tanks. I expect if you don't use the trailer braking system you probably could get away with plugging the connection and running without one. When I bought the goodies for the air dryer install (yet to be installed), I needed a purge air tank and bought one off of Amazon which is normally used as a accumulator for air horns. Atkins Vos advertises used Unimog tanks but I expect the shipping is more than what they charge for the tank, then again with a cheap Euro its worth checking.

The 1300 I bought has an air dryer, there are purge valves on the air tanks just like a SEE but talking to the Unimog expert there isn't much need to purge the tanks unless the dryer filter is getting saturated.

 

[patrol578]

Having the SEE during the seasonal temperature rise has been like being back in high school physics. The higher the temps get, the more gremlins come out. Its been quite a lesson in materials expanding at different rates.

 

[Bikers33]

The first two items I try not to rely on. Lady Luck is a very fickle travel companion and my wallet is not deep enough to use dollars as tools.
I will however have a support vehicle that gets me to the pick-up destination and follows me along with tools, manuals, food, sleeping bags, dogs, etc.
The beer stays in the fridge at home. Either for celebration or to ease the pain.

No fridge in the support vehicle?? May want to check fuel tank for debris before the journey, all the bouncing down the highway could dislodge any crud in the tank and keep plugging up the strainer. Also make sure to inspect the rubber boots on the driveshaft tubes, they tend to rot away. Have a safe, fun and problem free trip.....even without beer I suppose.

 

[alpine44]

No fridge in the support vehicle?? May want to check fuel tank for debris before the journey, all the bouncing down the highway could dislodge any crud in the tank and keep plugging up the strainer. Also make sure to inspect the rubber boots on the driveshaft tubes, they tend to rot away. Have a safe, fun and problem free trip.....even without beer I suppose.

I'll inspect the tank and will try to get as much junk out as I can. With all the fuel system troubles talked about here I am tempted to feed the IP from an outboard tank. When that one is near empty, its time for a break and a refill from the main tank via transfer pump and racor filter that I have laying around.

I saw rotted rubber bellows of the Govplanet FLUs. Replacing the bellows on the road seems impossible unless there is a split version. Could they be wrapped with a medical gauze bandage to keep dirt out and replaced later in my shop?

 

[alpine44]

There isn't anything special about those air tanks. I expect if you don't use the trailer braking system you probably could get away with plugging the connection and running without one. When I bought the goodies for the air dryer install (yet to be installed), I needed a purge air tank and bought one off of Amazon which is normally used as a accumulator for air horns. Atkins Vos advertises used Unimog tanks but I expect the shipping is more than what they charge for the tank, then again with a cheap Euro its worth checking. The 1300 I bought has an air dryer, there are purge valves on the air tanks just like a SEE but talking to the Unimog expert there isn't much need to purge the tanks unless the dryer filter is getting saturated.

Speaking of the expensive and often unavailable parts used to pressurize the tanks: What do you think about removing the 'Fluid Regulating Valve', 'Antifreeze Valve' and 'whatever-not sits between the compressor and tank' and replacing this with a Bendix D2 Governor valve, a reasonably small truck air dryer with 24V heating element, and a check valve. That whole setup will cost far less than one of the Mercedes Unobtainium components and is known to be reliable and fixable with parts from any truck parts store.

We have to live with the parts past the tanks as this system is far too complex to redneck engineer but there is no reason to make things harder than they should be from the compressor to the tanks.

 

[The FLU farm]

I'll inspect the tank and will try to get as much junk out as I can. With all the fuel system troubles talked about here I am tempted to feed the IP from an outboard tank. When that one is near empty, its time for a break and a refill from the main tank via transfer pump and racor filter that I have laying around.

If you drain the tank (around the corner from the seller's, if need be) and start "fresh", maybe with some magic diesel elixir of your choice added, you'll probably be fine. Unless the inside of the tank looks like mine did.
Check and clean out the strainer, especially in the beginning. If it looks okay, you're probably fine in that department.

The tricky issue could be air leaks in the system, and in a few days I should receive what might be the ultimate trouble shooting tool for that; a clear hose for between the primer pump and the filter inlet.
If your SEE runs fine, I wouldn't touch a thing in the fuel system (except for checking the strainer, and even that can lead to problems if the gasket is tired). But having that transparent hose from Bel-Metric could be a great help if you do have/develop air leaks. I'll let you know once I get mine if it is something you really should bring along.
Yeah, so you won't need it.

 

[Bikers33]

I'll inspect the tank and will try to get as much junk out as I can. With all the fuel system troubles talked about here I am tempted to feed the IP from an outboard tank. When that one is near empty, its time for a break and a refill from the main tank via transfer pump and racor filter that I have laying around.

I saw rotted rubber bellows of the Govplanet FLUs. Replacing the bellows on the road seems impossible unless there is a split version. Could they be wrapped with a medical gauze bandage to keep dirt out and replaced later in my shop?

Old bike inner tube, something really thin. the bellows is just to keep dirt out and doesn't spin, it just flexes with suspension.

 

[peakbagger]

Split Torque tube boots are available. A good place for 419 (a 419 is the last version of the 406) parts is this ebay store http://stores.ebay.com/Westfield4x4 They are based out of England. I see a split boot listed. Generally his prices are less than most other firms. I generally check them when I need a part as he sources non OEM supplies. They also sell boots for the tie rods which usually rot out long before the tie rods wear out (but I haven't checked the sizing).

I have all the parts to do what you propose to remove that alcohol bottle and replace it with an air dryer with an integrated air pressure regulator. The alcohol is not good for the various seals in the air system and in general the condensate formed by the engine air compressor which collects in the air tanks causes a lot of issues. I am planning to use a separate purge tank rather than trying to tie back into the air system. I have a Wabco air dryer with spin on filter I picked up on Ebay. Given the complexity of the air system I think this may be the number one upgrade to a 419 I can think of. Now I need to get the time to install it. I am also considering putting in an line lubricator downstream of the air dryer to give the system a dose of air tool oil on occasion.

Alternatively Atkinson Vos in England sells used air dryer/regulators from German 1300Ls, the issue with those systems is they are sized for the higher pressure used in the 1300Ls (and I think other SBUs) so not sure if the regulator has enough turn down to meet the 419 specs

 

[alpine44]

Split Torque tube boots are available. A good place for 419 (a 419 is the last version of the 406) parts is this ebay store http://stores.ebay.com/Westfield4x4 They are based out of England. I see a split boot listed. Generally his prices are less than most other firms. I generally check them when I need a part as he sources non OEM supplies. They also sell boots for the tie rods which usually rot out long before the tie rods wear out (but I haven't checked the sizing).

I have all the parts to do what you propose to remove that alcohol bottle and replace it with an air dryer with an integrated air pressure regulator. The alcohol is not good for the various seals in the air system and in general the condensate formed by the engine air compressor which collects in the air tanks causes a lot of issues. I am planning to use a separate purge tank rather than trying to tie back into the air system. I have a Wabco air dryer with spin on filter I picked up on Ebay. Given the complexity of the air system I think this may be the number one upgrade to a 419 I can think of. Now I need to get the time to install it. I am also considering putting in an line lubricator downstream of the air dryer to give the system a dose of air tool oil on occasion.

Alternatively Atkinson Vos in England sells used air dryer/regulators from German 1300Ls, the issue with those systems is they are sized for the higher pressure used in the 1300Ls (and I think other SBUs) so not sure if the regulator has enough turn down to meet the 419 specs

I woke up last night covered in sweat after dreaming about dissimilar metals, elastomeric seals, and tiny passages in the presence of water, alcohol, rust, and emulsified motor oil. Not being able to fall asleep again I did some searches on German websites and found that the original pre- tank components are readily available for reasonable prices if one is willing to wait between 2 to 3 Weeks for delivery.

The fluid regulation valve is a "Druckregler" with Wabco number 9753034470. Available either as OEM part for ~$350 plus ~$60 shipping or as aftermarket copy for ~$82 plus ~$38 shipping. The easiest way to order is by going to www.ebay.de and seaching for the part number. Both sellers ship internationally.

The antifreeze valve is a "Knorr Frostschutzpumpe" I82388 - LA4119 also available on ebay.de for $193.47 + $59.78 Shipping

These part would allow to rebuild the system to original configuration without spending days cleaning up the delicate components in the valves and then missing a seal or looking at a broken spring, etc. I will most likely go the route peakbagger outlined and get the water and engine oil out before the tanks.

BTW: I am wondering whether Mercedes-Benz came up with the antifreeze idea after realizing that most farmers in Germany have a bottle of "Schnapps" (strong distilled spirit) already in their winter lunch kit. Who on the other hand has a desiccant cartridge laying around when you desperately need it? Just guessing.

 

[peakbagger]

Even on the 1300L mogs with an air dryer there is also an alcohol bottle for extreme cold weather operation. I expect in a pinch it can be a back up if the cartridge is plugged. I had thought that my proposed inline lubricator could also be used in pinch for alcohol. The big unknown on a desiccant air dryer is how much oil comes along for the ride from the engine air compressor. If the air compressor is old I expect it could bypass oil and cause premature canister failure. With these SEEs which are all very low mileage it should not be an issue. Ideally desiccant should supply air down to -40 F dewpoint if everything it up to snuff.

 

[alpine44]

Even on the 1300L mogs with an air dryer there is also an alcohol bottle for extreme cold weather operation. I expect in a pinch it can be a back up if the cartridge is plugged. I had thought that my proposed inline lubricator could also be used in pinch for alcohol. The big unknown on a desiccant air dryer is how much oil comes along for the ride from the engine air compressor. If the air compressor is old I expect it could bypass oil and cause premature canister failure. With these SEEs which are all very low mileage it should not be an issue. Ideally desiccant should supply air down to -40 F dewpoint if everything it up to snuff.

Today's air dryers are much more efficient which led to ADIS (air dryer integrated system) in commercial trucks and the omission of the 'wet' tank.

 

[anthkey]

We should definitely use this opportunity to meet in person. The week after Memorial Day is marked on our calendar for this trip.

If you are heading to Atlanta in the meantime and want to look at the FLU419, please PM.

We look at this trip as mini vacation during which I may retrieve the FLU419. By preparing accordingly I want to have that option. If driving this machine to Asheville does not look like a wise choice, we will check out some things in and around Atlanta or drive back into the mountains and spend some time there. Knowing that there was no alternative, will make it less painful to pay a trucking company for the retrieval.

In any case, we should get together in GA.

I sent ya a message, check the notification tab at the top of the site... has a envelope as an icon...

 

[alpine44]

Trying to find a domestic source for the fluid regulating valve (WABCO: 975 303 447 0 MERCEDES BENZ: 14312206 HALDEX: 312013002 KNORR: DR3100) I saw that WABCO part 975 303 473 0 only differs in the pre-set cutout pressure which is adjustable via the allen screw on top of the cover. Below are the specs form WABCO.

WABCO 975 303 447 0 ****** WABCO 975 303 473 0
1. Cut-out pressure: 7.3±0.2 bar ****** 8.1±0.2 bar
2. Operational range: 0.6+0.4 bar ****** 0.6+0.4 bar
3. Temperature range: -40° ... +150°C ****** -40° ... +150°C
4. Port threads: M 22x1.5 ****** M 22x1.5
5. Safety Valve: 12.0+2 bar ****** 12.0+2 bar
6. 22 For other uses: closed; M 12x1.5 ****** closed; M 12x1.5
7. Tyre inflation 1-2: available ****** available
8. Port 23 for air dryer: without ****** without
9. Port 4: without ******without
10. Muffler: without silencerM 12x1.5 ******* without silencerM 12x1.5
11. Non-return valve in port 21: yes ****** yes

Two WABCO 975 303 473 0 are available on that 4-letter auction site for about $90 including shipping. Have at it; I already ordered mine.

Also notice #7. if you want to add a tire inflator to your FLU419. It will be a patience builder with the small compressor and the big tires but better than nothing.