Four wheel steering

[InfiniteFoamies]

I have a freind who has a front axle just sitting around so has anyone who bobs their duece out a front axle in the rear and done four wheel steering? The biggest problem I will have is controlling it, I am going to look at a friends power steering kit and may use that only on the aft front axle.

 

[rchalmers3]

I have no experience in the conversion but I once saw a deuce for sale on Craigslist that had a front axle fitted to the rear. The seller connected the front axle to the rear with a long steering link, so as the front axle turned one way, the rear turned the other.

I seem to recall him mentioning it worked good at lower speeds.....

Rick

 

[InfiniteFoamies]

Yes I want to do an independent system so I can lock the rear straight like monster jam

 

[blackrock]

Monster trucks dont use any locks to keep them straight. They have a self centering switch which in auto model will return the steering to center when the toggle is released. They also have the option of auto and Manuel switch.

 

[blackrock]

Also, 99% of the trucks just use a electric motor for the rear hydraulics while the front is run off the motor.

rears steer motor
http://baileynet.com/index.php?dnfwd=1&page=ProductDetails&line=PUDA&baileyno=251-004

 

[InfiniteFoamies]

Thanks for the info, I don't have experience with four wheel steering. Think I could get away with using the power steering kit? Trying to do this one budget...trying.

 

[blackrock]

When you say power steering kit what do you mean? for the front? I had full hydro on my lifted deuce best thing i ever did. If i was going to do rear steer. I would use the pump from above, a psc steering ram and either make a self center switch or buy on from dan patrick (they cost like $500) very nice unit he makes but expensive. Now if you plan on driving it on the street you will need to make a lock arm to hold the wheels straight .

 

[InfiniteFoamies]

Yes the kit for the front. I have not driven it yet but I think I can handle no power steering up front. What is involved in the lock arm? Something if legal purposes or to make it drive safely? Something you need to crawl underneath and put in place?

 

[blackrock]

Lock arm would attached the knuckle to the housing keeping the tire straight as you drive down the road. It keeps it safe and keeps the tracking correct. I wouldn't use a pump driven by the motor for rear steer just cause how often are you going to use it? pump will be constantly pumping and not being used. that's why the electric hydro setup is your best option, but the units are 12v not 24v. But you could have the motor rewinding to be 24v i know a few mosnter trucks that do that in order to have quicker steering response.

 

[InfiniteFoamies]

Would it be a pita to have the four wheel steering active while driving on the road?

 

[MidnightDuramax]

At higher speeds it would be very sensitive and steering would be all over. I know that Chevy had the Denali trucks with 4 wheel steer. The rear axle only turned like 20% of the front but it steered opposite of the front under 25mph to make for tighter turning and then over 25mph it steered the same to make for smoother lane changes. Contact PSC they will be able to put a full kit together for you. Just remember cheap isn't always the best especially when it comes to your safety as well as other motorists.

 

[rmgill]

Turn it into an 8x8.

 

[M-1028]

I've had rear steer on two rigs now. Like mentioned run a electric over hydraulic pump and a switch to control the rear, you need a pump for double acting cylinders. DO NOT EVER hit the rear steer at speeds over 15 mph, it gets very uncontrollable very fast.

 

[InfiniteFoamies]

Do you have a parts list?

 

[Dribear]

There was a member at the dakota-durango.com forums that put some rockwells under his durango. He used 2 front axles, and had a lever setup for rear steer. I believe it was setup to turn the same way/lock/opposite.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

Would it be a pita to have the four wheel steering active while driving on the road?

More like dangerous and illegal. Monster trucks are for off road use only. If I recall correctly full hydro steering is illegal for street use. Blackrock's correct about the lock arm, probably the only way to safely drive it down the road at speed. Just think about what would happen if running it down the road and a hose busted???? Or the switch malfunctioning??? How many times have you seen the rear steering lock one way in Monster Jam?? Seen it several times, No big deal in a arena. A big vehicle like this swinging it's rear end around is very dangerous. That's why street vehicles have a solid connection to the knuckles with power assitance.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

http://www.liftlaws.com/is_full_hydro_steering_street_legal.htm
This says it only outright illegal in Tennesse

 

[MidnightDuramax]

@Ford Mechanic
I understand the hydro hose bursting and loosing steering, but I don't get how a mechanical linkage prevents that. I have seen tie rods, drag links, and pitman arms fail and result in loss of steering. I also believe the majority of rear steering failures you see in Monster Jam are from landing on one rear wheel and creating massive pressure on the system causing the rams seals to blow out or a hose to rupture.

@ InfiniteFoamies

I also agree that there should be some way to lock out the system. I had thought this up awhile ago for a truck of mine I was going to build. My thoughts were to use a short hydro cylinder and pin to engage a stationary arm on the axle and another arm on the knuckle. This way the axle would be locked in a straight position but also allowed it to be unlock without having to climb under the truck.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

@Ford Mechanic
I understand the hydro hose bursting and loosing steering, but I don't get how a mechanical linkage prevents that. I have seen tie rods, drag links, and pitman arms fail and result in loss of steering. I also believe the majority of rear steering failures you see in Monster Jam are from landing on one rear wheel and creating massive pressure on the system causing the rams seals to blow out or a hose to rupture.

.

Yes mechanical linkages can and do fail, I just got finished fixing one. But the instances of hoses and seals failing far out number the instances of mechanical linkage breaking. Not to mention that in most cases mechanical linkage failure is due to outright abuse or neglect of maintance in which cases typically you would have had ignored the warning signs leading up to failure.

A comparison for example.... I see hose leaks in this shop at least once a week, mechanical linkage failure I can only recall 3 or 4 in the last 10+ years. They have all been due to neglect of maintainance.

Just my .02 but if it was safe some major car/truck manufacturer would have it on a vehicle by now. Not that I don't think that it's cool and would like to see it preforming off road...... But I wouldn't want to be around it running down the road. And we've not even touched the liability stand point of it if you were in a wreck.

 

[blackrock]

I ran Full hydro on my deuce for over a year. I was against the idea until i actually did it. I put over 5000miles on my deuce that year, from around town driving to 65mph on the turnpike for 2hrs straight. If you build a good unit it will last. But their is always that chance. Im not saying to do it im just tossing my in.

Monster Jam is a whole differetn ball game. I have seen teams that i build parts for exploded steering rams that are .25DOM tube, all from landing wrong.