Fuel filter change nightmare

[motormayhem]

Thanks, guys! Lift pump? Sounds like a plan. Of course, I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get one as nothing is open today. IF that doesn't solve it, what's next on the list of possibles?

Also, would spraying WD-40 or ether into the intake while cranking help or hurt?

If you have a compressor you could try cracking the lines right before the lift pump and using a rag or a tennis ball with a hole on both sides to seal the filler and then pressurize the tank to no more than about 5 psi and see if you can get fuel to come out at the lift pump. If you have fuel to the pump and not past there then you know it is the pump.

Someone else chime in as im not sure but I think you could try the WD-40 in the intake as long as you disconnect the glowplug system.

 

[BIG_RED]

My advice:
I recommend that you don't put any liquids in the intake of a diesel unless you know what you're doing (no offense, I wouldn't do it myself unless stranded). Also, don't use either.

If you do decide to put any starting-stuff into your intake - UNHOOK YOUR GLOW PLUGS!
Happy Easter.

 

[bigflew]

Here is how I found to work best atatch a vacum pump with a clear hose to top drain after filter is on and pump till you get clear fuel (like bleeding brakes) close valve and start. it works great for me.
ALSO MAKE SURE IT WILL HOLD VACUM WITH DRAIN CLOSED one of mine would not and verry hard to get running.

 

[91W350]

Installing a lift pump is easier said than done. They are a straight forward mechanical pump. GM or Detroit, followed the pattern they set for the Chevrolet engines and a push rod drives the pump lever. When you remove the pump, the rod will probably slide down to the fuel pump block off plate. I just buy the plate gasket with the lift pump as I always wind up pulling it. After pulling the pump, check to see if the push rod is still up in the hole. If you have an assistant, have them bump the starter to get the rod as far up there as possible. If it slid out, pull the plate and the rod. I squirt some brake clean up in the block to dry it out and I clean the rod with brake clean. I then use wheel bearing grease and coat the rod with grease, insert it into the block. Install the plate, then install the pump.

That is a miserable hole to work in, unless you have toddler hands. I find that a 1/4 drive deep socket and swivel works about as good as any for the back pump bolt. I have a couple of long wrenches I use alternately to tighten the rear bolt. A short 3/8 ratchet will work on the front bolt.

Be sure to take a really good look at the rubber hose under the pump. It is next to impossible to replace with the pump on the truck. If you can find an original replacement, preformed, that is the best way to go. You can twist regular fuel line into place, but it is hard to tell if it gets kinked. Glen

 

[allrevup]

1. I would exhaust all possibility's before a mechanical lift pump R. & R. is not complicated but it is a PITA. If trouble shouting indicates that you have to replace your mechanical lift pump, they are not very expensive. I would save my knuckles and be happier with an electric one . Some one already gave you a link to an electric pump installation. Good Luck!

   Installing a lift pump is easier said than done. They are a straight forward mechanical pump. GM or Detroit, followed the pattern they set for the Chevrolet engines and a push rod drives the pump lever. When you remove the pump, the rod will probably slide down to the fuel pump block off plate. I just buy the plate gasket with the lift pump as I always wind up pulling it. After pulling the pump, check to see if the push rod is still up in the hole. If you have an assistant, have them bump the starter to get the rod as far up there as possible. If it slid out, pull the plate and the rod. I squirt some brake clean up in the block to dry it out and I clean the rod with brake clean. I then use wheel bearing grease and coat the rod with grease, insert it into the block. Install the plate, then install the pump.

That is a miserable hole to work in, unless you have toddler hands. I find that a 1/4 drive deep socket and swivel works about as good as any for the back pump bolt. I have a couple of long wrenches I use alternately to tighten the rear bolt. A short 3/8 ratchet will work on the front bolt.

Be sure to take a really good look at the rubber hose under the pump. It is next to impossible to replace with the pump on the truck. If you can find an original replacement, preformed, that is the best way to go. You can twist regular fuel line into place, but it is hard to tell if it gets kinked. Glen

 

[CROM]

Great advice, guys. And I appreciate the history BigRed! Correct me if I'm wrong, but before I dig into replacing the lift pump it looks like I just need to suction fuel through the filter? BigRed: Do you mean the fuel filter inlet hose ((12) in the tech manuals)? And I'm assuming that to keep suction and fuel in the line the vent on top of the filter housing needs to be closed when I reconnect?

Also, if I were to get my hands on a vacuum pump, could I just connect it to the drain line and pull until fuel come out then close it all up? Or is that unrealistic?

Oh, and the gas gap should be open for all of this? Or doesn't it matter?


Thanks again, guys! What better way to spend an Easter afternoon!

 

[motormayhem]

Great advice, guys. And I appreciate the history BigRed! Correct me if I'm wrong, but before I dig into replacing the lift pump it looks like I just need to suction fuel through the filter? BigRed: Do you mean the fuel filter inlet hose ((12) in the tech manuals)? And I'm assuming that to keep suction and fuel in the line the vent on top of the filter housing needs to be closed when I reconnect?

Also, if I were to get my hands on a vacuum pump, could I just connect it to the drain line and pull until fuel come out then close it all up? Or is that unrealistic?

Oh, and the gas gap should be open for all of this? Or doesn't it matter?


Thanks again, guys! What better way to spend an Easter afternoon!

If the pump cant pull fuel itself I think it is worth replacing as it is probably on its way out. Also if you do get it working look in the TM for testing the pump. I believe it should push like 1/2 pint or quart of fuel for 30 sec of crank and make 5 or 10psi.

 

[bigflew]

Great advice, guys. And I appreciate the history BigRed! Correct me if I'm wrong, but before I dig into replacing the lift pump it looks like I just need to suction fuel through the filter? BigRed: Do you mean the fuel filter inlet hose ((12) in the tech manuals)? And I'm assuming that to keep suction and fuel in the line the vent on top of the filter housing needs to be closed when I reconnect?

Also, if I were to get my hands on a vacuum pump, could I just connect it to the drain line and pull until fuel come out then close it all up? Or is that unrealistic?

Oh, and the gas gap should be open for all of this? Or doesn't it matter?


Thanks again, guys! What better way to spend an Easter afternoon!

yes just pull it from the top vent (the one with the semi clear hose) then close valve when you get fuel.
ALSO ANOTHER TIP
If you do (and it sounds like you should)change your lift pump I used some string and pushed it along side of the pushrod to hold it in place untill I got pump in then pulled the string out. either way the pump is a pain.
good luck

 

[CROM]

Well, I was able to pull fuel through the main line comming from the fuel pump and was then able to pull fuel through the outlet port on the filter housing using a hand vacuum pump. So, I had fuel where it needed to be. However, my starter decided to finally crap on me. It begins to turn the engine over for maybe a revolution or so, but then just sounds like it spins. I suppose the starter is working, as it is spinning, but maybe the teeth are grabbing what they need to....I've never messed with a starter/solenoied/ect before. I guess the first step is to pull the starter off and see what I'm dealing with. Of course I had the truck parked in the driveway initially to keep my garage from smelling like diesel forever at the beginning of this fiasco, and now it's stuck there with a storm on its way. So instead of rolling around on the ground under the truck in a thunderstorm, I'm calling it for the day. Any starter experts out there?

I swear, the best thing about owning a MV is the ASE certification you can give yourself after a few years keeping it running! After this, I'll get to be signed off on fuel systems and starting systems .

Bah! If I wanted a nice shiney maintenance free truck, I'd have bought one!

 

[GPrez]

If you aren't concerned about keeping the Military 24-volt system intact now would be a good time to convert it to 12-volt. The starter is the only true 24-volt component on the truck. I can e-mail you instructions for the conversion it is quite simple to do. You can also google it for instructions.

I've learned alot over the last couple years messing with mine, and a electric fuel pump, and spin on fuel filter are definite things to consider doing as others have suggested. Good Luck

 

[CROM]

Thanks GPrez. Is there much of a benfit to converting to a 12v system?

Also, I managed to pull the starter before the rains came...I'll have pics posted of the starter and the gear it connects to on the truck.

The starter seems ok, though I'm not really sure what to check for. The internal gear comes forward and spins, and the teeth look alright....again, I'll post pics..

 

[GPrez]

For me it made sense to go 12-volt. If you want to add accessories to your truck (radio, off road lights, CB, etc.) then 12-volt is what everything runs on. I've heard people say the 24-volt starters work better on the diesels, but mine starts just fine.

When you hit the key to start the truck did the starter do anything? Did you hear it spinning? If it wasn't making a bunch of grinding noises I would bet the teeth are fine the starter just needs to be rebuilt or replaced. If you do alot of cranking trying to start them they can get hot and burn out.

 

[CROM]

Here's the starter.

 

[CROM]

Truck side:

 

[GPrez]

I've seen worse. The starter should be rebuilt or replaced. The teeth look pretty mangled. Not sure about the flywheel. You might want to put a 15/16" (I think) deep well socket with a breaker bar on the crank bolt on the front of the motor behind the pulley and turn the motor (clockwise) a little at a time and check the teeth on the flywheel all the way around. If the teeth on the flywheel are as worn down as they look in the picture in that one spot it could eat the teeth on the new starter as well.

 

[allrevup]

Well, I was able to pull fuel through the main line comming from the fuel pump and was then able to pull fuel through the outlet port on the filter housing using a hand vacuum pump. So, I had fuel where it needed to be. However, my starter decided to finally crap on me. It begins to turn the engine over for maybe a revolution or so, but then just sounds like it spins. I suppose the starter is working, as it is spinning, but maybe the teeth are grabbing what they need to....I've never messed with a starter/solenoied/ect before. I guess the first step is to pull the starter off and see what I'm dealing with. Of course I had the truck parked in the driveway initially to keep my garage from smelling like diesel forever at the beginning of this fiasco, and now it's stuck there with a storm on its way. So instead of rolling around on the ground under the truck in a thunderstorm, I'm calling it for the day. Any starter experts out there?

I swear, the best thing about owning a MV is the ASE certification you can give yourself after a few years keeping it running! After this, I'll get to be signed off on fuel systems and starting systems .

Bah! If I wanted a nice shiney maintenance free truck, I'd have bought one!

I like your attitude! "getting enough MV experience for ASE certification"
Wait until you beguine to deal with just the Know electrical issues of this 25 + years old trucks 12/24v. hybrid system...some people think they are bad, will some others think GM had a stroke of genius for the day. Most have being address and improved upon by many S.S. member
and looking at it from your point of view you will be ready for Tesla Motors

 

[ryan77]

That starter is junk order a 24 volt of ebay and be done with it?

 

[ryan77]

working on rigs like this make you a better mechanic all around u want a easy car to work on but a nova with a straight 6? I like the challenge!!!!

 

[CROM]

Having the starter looked at tomorrow to see if it's worth it to rebuild. Looks like an AC/Delco goes for about $90 on Ebay, worst case. What do you guys think about the flywheel teeth? Is it a 'while I'm at it' job, or are they ok?

On top of that, I still need to figure out the initial fuel bleed problem. I swear, one of these days, I'm going to spend money on upgrades like lifts and winches instead of on repairs.

 

[ryan77]

Go with the Caltric $130.00 on ebay!!! search 24 volt cucv starter!!!!