Funky steering

[gringeltaube]

That bearing should have stayed in the drum / spyder behind the grease seal.

No, not when you pull a M35 hub/drum assembly .... The inner bearing cone (3994) will always stay in place until we pull it off of the spindle -usually with very little effort, since this is not a press fit.
These trucks use "cup-type" seals, pressed-on and stationary to the spindle, with the lip edge contacting only the inner bearing cup's front face, which acts as sealing surface.

 

[Mullaney]

No, not when you pull a M35 hub/drum assembly .... The inner bearing cone (3994) will always stay in place until we pull it off of the spindle -usually with very little effort, since this is not a press fit.
These trucks use "cup-type" seals, pressed-on and stationary to the spindle, with the lip edge contacting only the inner bearing cup's front face, which acts as sealing surface.
View attachment 844504

.
Thanks for helping ME understand how it is supposed to work!
I will go edit my post - rather than leaving useless information behind.

 

[ldmack3]

Disassembly done and wiped down. Did a quick visual and see a lot of what I call questionable. I'll break this down with the pics.





As previously noted pretty dry compared to the video and the inner bearing looks hot.. Some kind of green grease.





Damage on spindle. One pic shows a ding in the shaft. As well as scratches. Still can't get the inner bearing off. Does this have to be driven out from the back side?


Little grease on the knuckle.



U-joint grease caps are loose on some.




The thrust washer on the inboard side of the knuckle as well as the mating surface of the seal retainer are all chewed up.




Knuckle shaft pitted either through casting or repaired corrosion. Suspect casting.



Part of the knuckle appears to have been dragging on the inside of the axle housing as well as the lower king pin boss.








Upper king pin has some scoring and a small amount of slop with the busing. Lower is better but still a tiny bit.





Sorry for the length of this post but I'm still cleaning and researching.


I worked on jet aircraft for 40 years so I tend to treat everything like the smallest blemish could kill everyone. I'm trying to remember IT'S NOT AN AIRPLANE!





So am I splitting hairs here?

 

[ldmack3]

Pic of upper king pin.

 

[ldmack3]

Remember two things
DO NOT mix different flavors grease. That action is detrimental to expensive parts.
Also the "BOOTS" correct terminology is Dust boots. Not oil, grease boots.
When One pumps up the grease in the front end fittings One MUST remove the "goessoutah" fitting as per the TM. Many threads on these things. If You want I can post them all again...............

goessoutah ? I can find the posts if I know what to look for. I saw in the video to clean out all the old grease, which I'm doing.

 

[Mullaney]

Disassembly done and wiped down. Did a quick visual and see a lot of what I call questionable. I'll break this down with the pics.





As previously noted pretty dry compared to the video and the inner bearing looks hot.. Some kind of green grease.

View attachment 844513



Damage on spindle. One pic shows a ding in the shaft. As well as scratches. Still can't get the inner bearing off. Does this have to be driven out from the back side?
View attachment 844514

Little grease on the knuckle.

View attachment 844516

U-joint grease caps are loose on some.

View attachment 844517


The thrust washer on the inboard side of the knuckle as well as the mating surface of the seal retainer are all chewed up.


View attachment 844518View attachment 844519

Knuckle shaft pitted either through casting or repaired corrosion. Suspect casting.
View attachment 844520


Part of the knuckle appears to have been dragging on the inside of the axle housing as well as the lower king pin boss.



View attachment 844521View attachment 844522




Upper king pin has some scoring and a small amount of slop with the busing. Lower is better but still a tiny bit.





Sorry for the length of this post but I'm still cleaning and researching.


I worked on jet aircraft for 40 years so I tend to treat everything like the smallest blemish could kill everyone. I'm trying to remember IT'S NOT AN AIRPLANE!





So am I splitting hairs here?

.
Generally on the wheel bearings you are looking for "pits" more than anything. They do look discolored but that may just be the picture. Everybody has an opinion, but if it was my truck - I think I would replace the wheel bearings. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about the spindle scuffs. They can easily be buffed off or out with very fine emery cloth.

It's definitely not like the rotors and stators but the cool part is that you already have the "attention to detail" part that a lot of folks miss!

 

[gringeltaube]

So am I splitting hairs here?

..... kind of, ha-ha. That spindle - as far as what can be seen in the pic - looks OK to me.

That stubborn bearing cone could just be stuck there because of a little rust, or much worse, it froze on the spindle, if it spun dry. Let's hope not...

Assuming you don't have the right type of puller for that job, and since it looks like you will have to replace that 3994 anyway, try first with a chisel or long punch, hitting it directly on the cage, behind the rollers, at the best possible angle from behind.
If that doesn't help, cut open/remove the cage & rollers, then apply some quick heat to the race, and again treat it with hammer and punch.
If it still won't budge, your last resource would be split open that race. A small cutting wheel and a good chisel will do. Just don't hurt the spindle itself; it might still be good enough for another 50 years...

Regarding that kingpin, I've seen (and fixed) much worse. The TM calls for .001" wear limit, but as long as we can restore/polish the surface and still keep it perfectly cylindrical, a slightly reduced diameter (>1.110") will still be perfectly safe. Of course it requires a new bearing bushing, reamed to size, accordingly.

 

[ldmack3]

I am planning on inner and outer bearings. That color is real.
The other things that really concern me are the thrust washer damage and the knuckle contacting the axle housing. Don't know if its recent or old.

 

[gringeltaube]

.... the knuckle contacting the axle housing.

You mean the wear marks on that axle shaft yoke....(?) It happens when the steering knuckle has excessive up-down play. Or if someone used the wrong bolts (too long), where #30 goes.

 

[ldmack3]

This is the housing where the knuckle rotates. It also has the king pins in it. The bottom which shows some wear/dragging. To the left of the kingpin you can just see the end of the drag marks from the first pic. 1st pic needs to be rotated 90 degrees clockwise

I could be wrong, but that what it look like to me. Tomorrow I'll get a pic with both of them visible simultaneously.

 

[ldmack3]

Need advice!

RH axle shaft journals
Limit on each is 1.666; Outer journal is 1.658; inner 1.660.
Axle shaft $400 for short side. Haven't pulled LH yet.

View attachment 844666View attachment 844668


Steering knuckle pins
Limit 1.230. Upper & lower 1.222 plus scoring.


View attachment 844670

Axle retainer and seal as well as corresponding thrust washer are trashed. Replacing
Has anyone tried one of the Western Canadian Rockwell upgraded retainer and seal? Same price, they claim better. Axle housing...don't even want to think about it
View attachment 844671View attachment 844672


Are either of the replacement bushings able to compensate for the pin & journals that are out of limits?
This all started because I had a pull to side after making a turn that would correct itself. Does ay of this look like the culprit? Could be in the LH side.



Thanks in advance for any help. View attachment 844666View attachment 844668View attachment 844670View attachment 844671View attachment 844672

 

[ldmack3]

No idea what happened to the pics so here they are again

 

[Jeepsinker]

Clean up your kingpins with fine emery cloth and replace the bushings. They come undersized and usually need to be reamed to fit. Yours will likely fit perfectly with no reaming.
Those bearings are fine. They didn't get hot enough to be hurt. Just use good quality grease going back together.
All this wear is because the previous guy refused to pack the knuckle with grease like you're supposed to. This is why it is so maddening to still see people say you don't need to pack the knucles if you have u-joint type shafts! This misguided advice destroys components. I'd bet the u-joints are about trashed too because they aren't actually sealed. They take grease from the knuckle cavity. The things that look like seals are just needle keepers.

As far as the shaft rubbing the inside of the knuckle, it's either because the spindle bushing is totally gone ( entirely possible here) from lack of lube, or your upper kingpin is missing the hardened spacer that goes between the top of the kingpin and the steering arm/ kingpin cap plate.

 

[ldmack3]

Remember two things
DO NOT mix different flavors grease. That action is detrimental to expensive parts.
Also the "BOOTS" correct terminology is Dust boots. Not oil, grease boots.
When One pumps up the grease in the front end fittings One MUST remove the "goessoutah" fitting as per the TM. Many threads on these things. If You want I can post them all again...............

OK I give up. What is the "goessoutah" fitting you mentioned?

 

[Jeepsinker]

OK I give up. What is the "goessoutah" fitting you mentioned?

Goes- out- of

 

[ldmack3]

Ok I'm stuck.

For 2 days I've been trying to get the steering arm off. I've tapped it as per the TM and the video. Tapped pretty hard but not the threads. Run the steering back and forth. Tapped the steering arm up and down

I've soaked it is Kroil overnight through the split in the cones, around the threads and the outside of the cones, abound the base of the arm and the plate and tapped some more.

I've tried to get something under the arm corners and pry it loose

I've blown out the kroil and added more and more and let it sit for hours. And tapped some more.

I've blown it out and sprayed Blaster. Let it sit overnight and tapped some more.

Pulled the grease fitting and cleaned out the grease with my solvent sprayer and filled it with kroil and will let it sit overnight.

Any new ideas would be great. Otherwise I'll be here a while.

The good news is the LH axle looks great! Newer than the right, journals are within spec and lots of grease. Bad wheel cylinder but I already have a spare so no biggie.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Hit the side of the arm right where it meets the knuckle. Hit it hard and repeatedly. Use something like a 32 oz ballpein hammer.

 

[gringeltaube]

Hit the side of the arm right where it meets the knuckle. Hit it hard and repeatedly........

... and I would go for a bigger hammer!

See this thread....

 

[ldmack3]

So a BMFH..

Got it.

 

[ldmack3]

BTY you can see where I "tapped" on that front RH corner.