Guess I'm looking at head gaskets

[patracy]

I got caught up with work today and decided it was time to check the oil since the o-rings change on the oil cooler. Nothing but oil. Those o-rings were the problem apparently.

Me too. So far so good!

 

[dabtl]

We discovered the water when we changed the oil last April. I did not get the o-rings fixed until July. Some water got into the oil though not much. I checked the oil again in September and it still showed some coolant in it. After driving it a few hours, watching the slobber tube and again checking the oil, it was gone. I think I have cleaned up that problem finally. So, good luck to you also. This o-ring problem has not been mentioned much here.

 

[patracy]

Well when I tore mine down I did see some discoloring on the o-ring like you mentioned. It was also squared off as well. I haven't lost any more coolant, nor have I smelt any leaking externally. I'm still getting moisture in my slobber tube collecting in my can. But power is fine, engine temp is fine, and oil pressure is 35-40psi hot idle and 60psi at speed. I'm just going to call mine "done" for now, but I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[dabtl]

My thoughts were that coolant would find many places to hide in the engine. So, watching the slobber tube vent seemed reasonable. It ultimately was not making so much white 'smoke' which I think was steam. Seems to be the way it was.

 

[patracy]

Headgasket replacement

Well I've been fighting a mixing of coolant and oil in the oilpan. I've had some NASTY looking oil/water snot in the top of the valve covers. I got the heads off yesterday. The gaskets were the new style 1 piece head gaskets. But I see no signs of a blowout. I don't see any cracks on the head surface either. Nor have I noticed any on the block deck. The only thing odd to note is the #1 cyl liner lifted out of the block when I rotated the engine over to look at the cyls. #2 also ever so slightly moved upwards as well. I realize there's a lip on the liner that "locks" it into place. But would there be any harm in cleaning it up a bit and applying a little locktight around the liner? Anything else I should be looking for? I'm just at a loss as to why this thing runs good, but mixes oil/AF.

 

[patracy]

Oh and one other thing, I noticed the lack of sealant on the gasket/surfaces. Course this is a new style gasket. I'm not certain if sealant should be used or not on them. (TM's state that the area near the pushrods should have sealant on them)

 

[dabtl]

Well I've been fighting a mixing of coolant and oil in the oilpan. I've had some NASTY looking oil/water snot in the top of the valve covers. I got the heads off yesterday. The gaskets were the new style 1 piece head gaskets. But I see no signs of a blowout. I don't see any cracks on the head surface either. Nor have I noticed any on the block deck. The only thing odd to note is the #1 cyl liner lifted out of the block when I rotated the engine over to look at the cyls. #2 also ever so slightly moved upwards as well. I realize there's a lip on the liner that "locks" it into place. But would there be any harm in cleaning it up a bit and applying a little locktight around the liner? Anything else I should be looking for? I'm just at a loss as to why this thing runs good, but mixes oil/AF.

A test that seems to work is to remove the injectors and watch the cylinders when the engine turns over.

My experience was that the AF in the oil was getting worse in a very short time. Finally, we found AF spurting from the number six cylinder. I have posted elsewhere on how the process developed for me. I concluded a cracked head.

We surfaced the old head, checked visually for cracks in the decking and found none. But, when the engine turned AF pumped out the number six like crazy. I concluded the problem was a crack in one of the valve ports.

I just wish I had thought about the injector removal a bit earlier.

 

[patracy]

But shouldn't a crack in the valve ports show steam from the exhaust, a miss, or a "clean" piston. I didn't find anything like that.

I'm trying to decide where to go from here. The cyls are glazed over as well and could use a hone/ring job. (I think I found an entire liner kit for $250) I'm just at a loss where this mixing of oil/AF could be happening at without impacting performance. I just haven't found a cause for it. Part of me wants to overhaul it since it's only a matter of pulling the oil pan at this point. But the other part of me worries about putting all that work into it, only to find out the block or heads are cracked and have to tear it all down again.

 

[dabtl]

The slobber tube on mine showed puffing steam at the worst point. I unscrewed the dip stick and it began puffing steam.

I postulate that the crack in the valve ports leaks with the draw down of the piston causing a vacuum sucking the AF into the cylinder.

Let it get bad enough and the pressure goes way up and then the breakage begins.

 

[patracy]

If a cyl blows a head gasket, the piston will show signs of it. The leaking cyl with be "clean" on the piston crown since the AF is steam cleaning it. My engine showed no signs of that. I was getting a lot of water condensation and "snot" from my slobber tube. But just a lack of signs that the head gasket was at fault. A cracked intake or exhaust port should have shown signs on the piston, exhaust port, or steam out the exhaust. I've pulled the oil cooler off as well. I see nothing wrong with it, but I'm going to take it to a radiator shop to see if they can pressure test it for me to ensure the cooler isn't causing this.

If I can find a source for the mixture from a crack in the heads or fouled cooler. I'll proceed with rebuilding the engine while it's down to this point. Just need to find out how much an oil pan gasket, rod bolts, and bearings would run.

 

[dabtl]

I saved my old head gasket to make a pattern in steel that will seal off the water jacket. I will make a casting plug with an air inlet to pressure the head up for crack testing. It should not be too expensive and perhaps we can loan it out to those suspecting a cracked head.

If you look at the search results here, there is little about cracked cylinder heads to be found.

 

[patracy]

I've searched a bit on head gaskets and cracked heads. I've seen many mentions of it, but no photos or locations of common problem areas.

 

[doghead]

TM 9-2815-210-34-2-2 covers head inspection and testing.


Lots of pics too.

 

[Floridianson]

Might be a little late but thought the TM's said to check the head for being cut before. The number they cut should be one inch up from the base of the head and stamped in. If you have it cut stamp the number on there. I can't rember but thought it was 10k and then scrap head. I would think they just want to keep most things equal.

 

[dabtl]

I am starting to feel better about my repair. No steam from the slobber tube, running strong an no drip from the radiator cap. I think it was a cracked head. I will post later on this.

 

[patracy]

I'll check on the heads tomorrow. Took the heads to a friends shop to have them checked for the surfaces. Got the block deck cleaned off. While I was at it, I pulled the oil cooler and took it to a radiator shop. No leaks there. But it appears that I missed a bit of gasket material when I replaced the cooler seals last December. It was just the outer perimeter of the engine block so if it was leaking anything it would have just been coolant to the outside.

Waiting to hear back from a member here about a liner kit. I emailed Memphis about rod bolts, but they only have used ones. (Bleah!) I'll check with CSI tomorrow to see if they have any.

The only other thing I can think of is the studs below the injectors didn't take as much umph to break loose than the ones on top of the head. My homemade tool is along the lines of the military tool. I just took a 7/8" wrench, ground the side of the box end down enough to clear the head. Heated it up with my torch and 90*'d both ends towards each other. Then I took a broken cheapo socket, cut it down to just the 1/2" drive section and welded it to the open end side of the wrench. I know coolant flows from this side of the block as well. Perhaps it had a pinhole leak allowing steam into the crankcase?

I also picked up some copper spray sealant. I'll coat the gasket before install. Maybe in the next day or so I'll get the heads back.

 

[doghead]

I believe the new gaskets require no copper spray. Dry only.

 

[patracy]

Just extra insurance. It's commonplace in the cummins performance world. *knock on wood* I've managed to keep my head gasket on my dodge even with 50psi of boost. (Course I also have ARP studs)

 

[dabtl]

Ran mine on idle for an hour and fifteen minutes. No problems. I turned on the headlights. Crap! No headlights. Oh, well, back to work.

 

[JasonS]

I emailed Memphis about rod bolts, but they only have used ones. (Bleah!) .

How about here:
http://www.powermaxparts.com/DEMO/copyOfX-HERC-478-A.html