Help getting 805b running

[Tommytone]

I have an 805b that was started and ran using an alternate fuel source and manipulated the electric fuel pump and shutoff to achieve that.

My question is where to start and any likely culprit or culprits?

My thought was to clean the fuel tank. Can a no fuel reading cause an issue requiring them to bypass the pump and shutoff? Is cleaning the tank necessary or advisable?

My other question off the bat is are the electronics sensitive to using a 24v batter charger or booster? As it may take some tome to progress through diagnosing the problem(s) a trickle charger would be essential and a booster helpful.

I included some photos from govplanet. I wonder what, if anything, it means that they spilled fuel around the fuel cap. Does that point to anything as a place to start?

 

[Evvy Fesler]

Welcome!

Before you go any further, download the Technical Manuals (TM) here:

All the TM's you need to work on the MEP-805B Generator set.

Here are the TM's you need to work on the MEP-805B generator set. Be advised, there are OTHER uploaded files that pertain to the MEP-805B in the TM forum. So LOOK for them.

www.steelsoldiers.com

Battery charger is okay.

 

[Tommytone]

Welcome!

Before you go any further, download the Technical Manuals (TM) here:

All the TM's you need to work on the MEP-805B Generator set.

Here are the TM's you need to work on the MEP-805B generator set. Be advised, there are OTHER uploaded files that pertain to the MEP-805B in the TM forum. So LOOK for them.

www.steelsoldiers.com

Battery charger is okay.

Thank you!

 

[Guyfang]

I have an 805b that was started and ran using an alternate fuel source and manipulated the electric fuel pump and shutoff to achieve that.

My question is where to start and any likely culprit or culprits?
(I would fill the tank up after charging the batteries. And you need very much to get into the operators TM, and read up on the set, and how it starts.)

My thought was to clean the fuel tank. Can a no fuel reading cause an issue requiring them to bypass the pump and shutoff? (When you have a no fuel reading, the gen set CAN NOT BE STARTED.) Is cleaning the tank necessary or advisable? (Look inside the tank. Take a fuel sample from the tank and the fuel filter.)

My other question off the bat is are the electronics sensitive to using a 24v batter charger or booster? As it may take some tome to progress through diagnosing the problem(s) a trickle charger would be essential and a booster helpful. (Charge and load test the batteries. Then try and troubleshoot. This set get cranky when the batteries are not tip top charged.)

I included some photos from govplanet. I wonder what, if anything, it means that they spilled fuel around the fuel cap. (That someone used a 5 gal can to try and get enough fuel in the set to start it, and was messy) Does that point to anything as a place to start?

 

[Ray70]

Looking at the picture it appears that the fuel line has been disconnected from the transfer pump.
Start by giving the gen a good look over and compare things to the TM and see what the GP guys did exactly so you can put it back together to start the diagnosis.

 

[Guyfang]

If you take a bunch of good pictures of the inside of the set, control cube included, perhaps we can see things you might not see.

 

[Tommytone]

If you take a bunch of good pictures of the inside of the set, control cube included, perhaps we can see things you might not see.

I will do so in the morning. They reassembled the fuel plumbing after they bypassed it so I wil be interested to see what you see.

 

[Tommytone]

If you take a bunch of good pictures of the inside of the set, control cube included, perhaps we can see things you might not see.

I took some photos and looked into the fuel tank, I thought I would need to scope it. There appears to be a plug maybe 6 inches down or so. I tried to use a tig rod to see what it was but it is solid. Do they ever plug the filler for some reason maybe transport or for dedicated external tank use or…?

 

[Light in the Dark]

I think the plug you are referencing is a mesh screen. That fill neck assembly should pull out (and twist to remove). That screen should not be plugged, its to catch trash in your fuel.

 

[Tommytone]

I think the plug you are referencing is a mesh screen. That fill neck assembly should pull out (and twist to remove). That screen should not be plugged, its to catch trash in your fuel.

That was my other guess but I did not see it in the parts drawing. I will try removing the fill neck to check that out thank you. I see it must be built into the filler neck.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Its the bottom of #15

 

[Guyfang]

Looks like the fuel line to the Act, (Electric Actuator) is pinched, but not closed off. It looks like that the reason is because the Act. was changed.

go back to post #4. Did you do those things? If so, will it start?

 

[loosegravel]

You simply need to pull up on that sleeve (the cap is attached to it with a chain) and when it gets to the top where it won't pull out anymore, rotate the assembly to line up the tabs on the bottom of the sleeve with the notches in the fuel fill neck and it will simply pull all the way out where you can get a glimps of the inside of your tank. I see some fuel residue around the top of your tank. There's a rubber boot that may be cracked and leaking. It will leak when you pour fuel into the main tank. The part number for this boot is 88-22068. I've had to replace a couple of them on the 15kw units. I believe that it's the same part on the larger machines.

 

[Guyfang]

You simply need to pull up on that sleeve (the cap is attached to it with a chain) and when it gets to the top where it won't pull out anymore, rotate the assembly to line up the tabs on the bottom of the sleeve with the notches in the fuel fill neck and it will simply pull all the way out where you can get a glimps of the inside of your tank. I see some fuel residue around the top of your tank. There's a rubber boot that may be cracked and leaking. It will leak when you pour fuel into the main tank. The part number for this boot is 88-22068. I've had to replace a couple of them on the 15kw units. I believe that it's the same part on the larger machines.

Don't believe, know.

 

[loosegravel]

Looks like the fuel line to the Act, (Electric Actuator) is pinched, but not closed off. It looks like that the reason is because the Act. was changed.

go back to post #4. Did you do those things? If so, will it start?

Guy is absolutely correct. Make sure that you have good batteries that are fully charged. There's a mechanical fuel lift pump on these 15kw units. The only time that its pumping fuel is when the engine is cranking over. Excessive engine cranking of any diesel engine will bring batteries down quickly because of the extra compression. And, like he said make sure that you have adequate fuel supply to inhibit a low fuel fault, or you will simply be cranking over an engine that's not going to fire.

 

[loosegravel]

Guy is absolutely correct. Make sure that you have good batteries that are fully charged. There's a mechanical fuel lift pump on these 15kw units. The only time that its pumping fuel is when the engine is cranking over. Excessive engine cranking of any diesel engine will bring batteries down quickly because of the extra compression. And, like he said make sure that you have adequate fuel supply to inhibit a low fuel fault, or you will simply be cranking over an engine that's not going to fire.

One more thing about the mechanical fuel lift pump on the side of this John Deere engine. There is a manual lever on the right side of this pump that you can use to prime the fuel system by hand. But in my experience with these pumps and the manual prime levers is that they won't work if the internal fuel pump lever is at the highest point on the cam shaft lobe. In other words, if you attempt to prime the fuel system by hand and you don't get any resistance on the hand lever, rotate the engine about a 1/4 turn and try again. When you are actually moving fuel with the hand primer pump lever you will feel it. And when the system is fully primed you will "hear" a difference when fuel is returning to the tank. Patience is a virtue!

 

[Tommytone]

That was my other guess but I did not see it in the parts drawing. I will try removing the fill neck to check that out thank you. I see it must be built into the filler neck.

So now I am at a crank no start and working through the TM on that. If you see any glaring fuel connection errors let me know. Gov Planets tester had it apart so who knows. I will check the line you mentioned.

The manual lift pump does not seem to have fuel yet. No one mentioned checking the Suction tube so I will go try that fo awhile.

 

[loosegravel]

So now I am at a crank no start and working through the TM on that. If you see any glaring fuel connection errors let me know. Gov Planets tester had it apart so who knows. I will check the line you mentioned.

The manual lift pump does not seem to have fuel yet. No one mentioned checking the Suction tube so I will go try that fo awhile.

The main fuel suction line is the flexible line on the front of the lift pump. In your photos it’s the one that drops down to the tank in front of the starter. Again, make sure you have sufficient fuel in your main tank. I would start with 3 or more gallons. Hand pump that lever on the right side of your lift pump. If you don’t feel any resistance, then roll the engine around about 1/4 - 1/2 revolution. Try the hand pump again. You can crack open the green line on the side of the lift pump to see if you’re getting any fuel through there. Once it fills the fuel filters then you should get fuel out of the green supply line to the injection pump on the opposite side of the engine. It takes patience and a cup of coffee. My experience with trying to prime the fuel system on these engines with mechanical fuel lift pumps by cranking over the engine is that by the time you get the system primed, your cranking voltage is so low (below 22 vdc) that the engine won’t fire because of the low voltage. This is why the electric lift pumps are so nice on the 802’s and 803’s.

 

[loosegravel]

Oh, BTW. The supply line to the injection pump is in the middle of the distribution block on the front. The return line is the one on the top of the injection pump. When you’re hand priming your fuel system you should get fuel out of the return line on the top (cracked open) with S1 in the run position and your batteries are up. If you have fuel going to the injection pump but nothing returning to the tank then there’s a problem with the electric actuator, or it’s not be told to turn on for some reason.

 

[Tommytone]

The main fuel suction line is the flexible line on the front of the lift pump. In your photos it’s the one that drops down to the tank in front of the starter. Again, make sure you have sufficient fuel in your main tank. I would start with 3 or more gallons. Hand pump that lever on the right side of your lift pump. If you don’t feel any resistance, then roll the engine around about 1/4 - 1/2 revolution. Try the hand pump again. You can crack open the green line on the side of the lift pump to see if you’re getting any fuel through there. Once it fills the fuel filters then you should get fuel out of the green supply line to the injection pump on the opposite side of the engine. It takes patience and a cup of coffee. My experience with trying to prime the fuel system on these engines with mechanical fuel lift pumps by cranking over the engine is that by the time you get the system primed, your cranking voltage is so low (below 22 vdc) that the engine won’t fire because of the low voltage. This is why the electric lift pumps are so nice on the 802’s and 803’s.

Oh, BTW. The supply line to the injection pump is in the middle of the distribution block on the front. The return line is the one on the top of the injection pump. When you’re hand priming your fuel system you should get fuel out of the return line on the top (cracked open) with S1 in the run position and your batteries are up. If you have fuel going to the injection pump but nothing returning to the tank then there’s a problem with the electric actuator, or it’s not be told to turn on for some reason.

This is a rotary injection pump correct and the supply from the lift pump goes into the center?

Is there an expected voltage at the electric actuator. On a 12v Cummins for example you have 12v at the shut off to actuate it open but I imagine this may be more comple.

I have the batteries on charge again to run another set of tests.