Help - M125 Wrecker Boom Winch Level Wind not on the level

[houdel]

I have a problem with the boom winch on my M125/M816 wrecker not winding level. When starting with a bare drum the cable will skip several grooves at a time between wraps until it gets to near the center of the drum, then it winds correctly. I can solve the problem with a slight sideway push on the cable with a wood stick from the operator's location. but that hardly seems like a workable long term solution.

I did notice the rollers are just barely or not contacting the cable on the drum at all. Is this right? Should I "tweak" the tips of the roller mounting brackets to apply more pressure to the cable? Any other thoughts?

 

[gimpyrobb]

RE: Help - M125 Wrecker Boom Winch Level Wind not on the lev

Do you have any load on the cable while winding? I would think there should be contact by the rollers. I never looked to see if mine made contact or not. Is there an adjustment on the roller or its guide? What size is the cable? Could someone put on a smaller than intended size?

 

[acetomatoco]

RE: Help - M125 Wrecker Boom Winch Level Wind not on the lev

The rollers should be pushing against the cable at all times and you need keep a few winds on the drum for friction under load. I remember an incident at the inpact area on Camp Edwards where I bird's nested the boom cable on a M543A2. It was a torch job and a horrible mess on a contractor's truck loaned to our museum. But in the end, we got it back to them good as new. Do not ever unwind that cable with a least the weight of the pulley block on it or you too could suffer the same fate.

 

[rizzo]

RE: Help - M125 Wrecker Boom Winch Level Wind not on the lev

yes looks like you need some weight. I see in one pic the cable is bent and looks like that is why it is skipping. you can pull the bolt on the far end of the roller mounts and stick some washers underneath for more roller pressure.

 

[joec]

RE: Help - M125 Wrecker Boom Winch Level Wind not on the lev

Do you still have the same block on the end? 2 pulley on then thats the problem. Put the single part block on and problem is over. I thought i put this on here before on a different post...HMMM..!

Just my... ..!!

 

[timntrucks]

RE: Help - M125 Wrecker Boom Winch Level Wind not on the lev

that cable looks bigger than mine on m816? just a thought

 

[m16ty]

I know nothing about a 816 wrecker ( never been on one) but I have run my fair share of cranes in my life. You need to have a fair amount of weight on the hook for it to wind correctly. If you are useing a block with a 2-part line you need to make sure the sheave is rolling freely.
If you ever get slack in the load line you need to check the drum. Nine times out of ten the drum will be fouled up although the roller will help some (most cranes don't have the roller).

 

[joec]

Correct Backlash happens not fun. Then you wind up having to restring or rewind it with some weight. The problem i have pointed out is that the block needs to be changed. All will be better after you change it. With line going out the block won't go down because there is not enough weight. I Know its not a 1200 ton Demag with a traverse hook.

 

[houdel]

RE: Help - M125 Wrecker Boom Winch Level Wind not on the lev

Do you have any load on the cable while winding?

Just the snatch block, the two pulley type which gives you four runs of cable, which I think rates the boom winch at 20,000 lbs capacity; vs the single pulley snatch block which only gives you two runs of cable and 10,000 lbs capacity.

Is there an adjustment on the roller or its guide?

None that I can see.

What size is the cable?

1/2" diameter.

Could someone put on a smaller than intended size?

Almost anything in life is possible but I don't think this is the case. When properly wound on the drum the grooves are filled and there is no free space between adjacent wraps of cable.

The rollers should be pushing against the cable at all times and you need keep a few winds on the drum for friction under load.

I guess I need to put a little more bend in the roller brackets for more pressure on the drum and remember to leave a few wraps on the drum when unwinding.

I remember an incident at the inpact area on Camp Edwards where I bird's nested the boom cable on a M543A2. Do not ever unwind that cable with a least the weight of the pulley block on it or you too could suffer the same fate.

Thanks for the hint, but you are a couple of days too late. I was playing with it at night without good lighting and instead of playing out cable at the load end, it unwound cable at the fixed end. The cable then jumped off the drum and flopped down on the shaft between the drum and the gearbox. I did not see what happened and when I winched in, the cable birdnested and wrapped itself tight between the drum and gearbox. At least it is only the last 2' or so of cable so if I have to cut it off I won't lose too much cable.

My winch will NOT play out cable with only the pulley block on it until I get about 1/2 of the cable played out. I have the 2 pulley block and there apparently is too much resistance with all those turns around the pulleys for the weight of the block itself to properly play out the cable. I have to hook my boom winch hook to the rear winch hook and alternately crowd out and boom up to keep the boom winch cable tight in order to play out the boom winch cable.

Do you still have the same block on the end? 2 pulley on then thats the problem. Put the single part block on and problem is over. I thought i put this on here before on a different post...

Got a single pulley block you want to donate? Won't that decrease my boom winch capacity from 20,000 lbs to 10,000 lbs with only a single pulley and two runs of cable?

I remember your reply, I think it was in my "M125 Wrecker has a new home!!!" posting.

 

[joec]

Re: RE: Help - M125 Wrecker Boom Winch Level Wind not on the

Do you have any load on the cable while winding?

Just the snatch block, the two pulley type which gives you four runs of cable, which I think rates the boom winch at 20,000 lbs capacity; vs the single pulley snatch block which only gives you two runs of cable and 10,000 lbs capacity.

Is there an adjustment on the roller or its guide?

None that I can see.

What size is the cable?

1/2" diameter.

Could someone put on a smaller than intended size?

Almost anything in life is possible but I don't think this is the case. When properly wound on the drum the grooves are filled and there is no free space between adjacent wraps of cable.

The rollers should be pushing against the cable at all times and you need keep a few winds on the drum for friction under load.

I guess I need to put a little more bend in the roller brackets for more pressure on the drum and remember to leave a few wraps on the drum when unwinding.

I remember an incident at the inpact area on Camp Edwards where I bird's nested the boom cable on a M543A2. Do not ever unwind that cable with a least the weight of the pulley block on it or you too could suffer the same fate.

Thanks for the hint, but you are a couple of days too late. I was playing with it at night without good lighting and instead of playing out cable at the load end, it unwound cable at the fixed end. The cable then jumped off the drum and flopped down on the shaft between the drum and the gearbox. I did not see what happened and when I winched in, the cable birdnested and wrapped itself tight between the drum and gearbox. At least it is only the last 2' or so of cable so if I have to cut it off I won't lose too much cable.

My winch will NOT play out cable with only the pulley block on it until I get about 1/2 of the cable played out. I have the 2 pulley block and there apparently is too much resistance with all those turns around the pulleys for the weight of the block itself to properly play out the cable. I have to hook my boom winch hook to the rear winch hook and alternately crowd out and boom up to keep the boom winch cable tight in order to play out the boom winch cable.

Do you still have the same block on the end? 2 pulley on then thats the problem. Put the single part block on and problem is over. I thought i put this on here before on a different post...

Got a single pulley block you want to donate? Won't that decrease my boom winch capacity from 20,000 lbs to 10,000 lbs with only a single pulley and two runs of cable?

I remember your reply, I think it was in my "M125 Wrecker has a new home!!!" posting.

Yes it will but unless you use that A-frame Your not gonna lift 20k . You will need The single. 10K is more then enough. It's easy to change the block. Everthing in the pictures that were posted before was no where near 20k. A seabox in only 8900lbs. They had that rigged for heavy lifting. And i would run a square across the top of the boom to make sure it's not bent.

Do i have one to Donate...maybe ...!

Just making it simple. I have the gear to do the 20k on MINE EXCEPT FOR THE PADS FOR THE BOTTOM OF THE A-FRAME.

Look at the Ps magazine article M543 it will explain everything. And show you the A-frame in use.

The setup on it now is just overkill. And all you will be doing is re-spooling the drum.

 

[houdel]

Do you still have the same block on the end? 2 pulley on then thats the problem. Put the single pulley block on and problem is over.

I'm up for that, the 2 pulley block winches too slow for me anyhow (seems like it feeds in inches per hour), a single pulley block should run up and down twice as fast. But does the single pulley block have the weight to spool the cable out without backlash?

My two pulley block is plenty heavy, is it just all the bends the cable has to make that creates too much drag for the block to properly pull out the cable? As it is now, I have to fix the block to the truck and crowd out and boom up until I have about half my cable played out before the combined weight of the block and extended cable will properly spool cable off the drum.

Where can I get a correct M816 single pulley snatch block? Does anyone have one you want to sell?

Won't (a single pulley block) decrease my boom winch capacity from 20,000 lbs to 10,000 lbs with only a single pulley and two runs of cable?

Yes it will but unless you use that A-frame Your not gonna lift 20k . You will need the single (pulley block). 10K is more then enough.

Just making it simple. I have the gear to do the 20k on MINE EXCEPT FOR THE PADS FOR THE BOTTOM OF THE A-FRAME.

You are 2/3s correct, I was 133% correct. I was trying to figure out this 10,000 lbs vs 20,000 lbs thing from the M816 electronic TM without much success. I finally got a hard copy TM, which also didn't help much until I took a magnifying glass to the picture of the "Crane Capacity" plate on page 2-157 of the 14 June 1985 TM.

Paraphrasing the crane capacity data plate TABLE, the max capacity of the crane is 10,000 lbs with the boom retracted, outriggers down, and TWO PART CABLE (emphasis added).

However, if you read the fine print below the data table (hence the magnifying glass), the max capacity of the crane is 20,000 lbs with outriggers down, boom retracted, boom supports in place, and AND 3 PART LINE!, or 20,000 lbs with rear out riggers down, boom jacks to ground at 15' radius, AND 3 PART LINE!, again emphasis added. So with a two part line (single pulley block) the best you can do is 10,000 lbs. To get 20,000 lbs you need boom supports or the A frame AND 3 PART LINE!!

Now how you get 3 part line is beyond me. With a single pulley on the boom and snatch block and the dead end of the line fixed to the end of the boom all you can get is a two part line. The only way I can figure you can get a THREE part line is to have a double pulley on the boom end, a single pulley on the block, and the dead end of the line fixed to the block, which seems totally stupid to me!

The setup on it now is just overkill. And all you will be doing is re-spooling the drum.

I totally agree, but this is not my setup, this the way it came from Highpoint.They must have had some specific purpose in mind when they went to the two pulley block (or were on some really good drugs when they set it up that way). And yes, I getting very proficient at respooling my drum.

BOTTOM LINE: I need a correct M816 single pulley snatch block. I also have a very heavy duty and very weighty 2 pulley snatch block to get rid of.

Does anyone have a M816 single pulley snatch block they can part with?

Does anyone have a burning desire for a very heavy, gargantuan two pulley snatch block? I don't know the capacity of my two pulley block but I'm guessing several quadrillion tons. From the size of the pulley grooves, it has to be set up for at least 3/4" or 1" cable. I'll try to find a capacity rating mark on it, but I am NOT optimistic I will find a rating marked on it anyplace.

I'm also in the market for some sheaves I can use with my front and rear drag winches, but they look to be 3/4" cable or better.

Any help in finding the M816 snatch block and sheaves for the drag winches will be greatly appreciated! Of course, than I have to find some significant chain to tie off the sheaves for angle pulling. I doubt my current stock of 1/4" common chain will last very long for this with a 45,000 lb drag winch!

Thanks, Lee

 

[m16ty]

I was looking in DDoyle's book and almost every wrecker picture shows them with a 3-part line. It appears that the correct block has a attachment point for the becket ( the piece that holds the end of the line).

 

[gimpyrobb]

Lee, I have the correct block for your wrecker. One problem, the sheath(the pulley the cable rides on) is missing. I can get a pic if you want.

 

[joec]

I understand what you are saying Lee.



Wow alot of quotes on my previous post..?

Don't remember doing that. But looks good makes me look edumacated..LOL

WELL MY SINGLE PART SEEMS TO BE DIFFERENT FROM EVERYONE ELSE'S.

sinlgle line is that
Single part is 1 pulley
2 part is 2 pulleys
3 part is 3 pulleys.

Been that way. That s how my father explained that to me 25 years ago. Even when he was in Combat engineers they had it backwards. Maybe i have it wrong..LOL

 

[Recovry4x4]

OK, the 3 part line is correct. The boom was never designed with a 4 part line. To simply put it, the correct hoist block has a single sheave and a pin at the top. The cable is reaved around one of the boom sheaves, through the hoist block, back around the other boom sheave and attaches at the pin on the top of the hoist block. Looking at your hoist block pictured above I'd say you are running too small of sheaves, binding the cable. With the correct hoist block and properly lubed boom sheaves, the block will be of sufficient weight to pay out cable without effort or binding. Also as a note, the system was designed with enough forethought that when you are jibbing out the boom and paying out cable, it will keep the hoist block pretty close to the same level. It does a similar action when raising the boom and lowering the hoist. Finding the correct hoist block and a little lube work will square this away. I do have that hoist block on my deuce wrecker but can't find a deuce hoist block so I can't give it up. I can get pics if you need them.
I was re reading and needed to add this, Hawthorne Tractor sales in Lake City FL had racks of blocks, snatch and hoist if you run out of options. John Winslow in NC has new 3/4" correct wrecker chanins as well. Your front winch should have 5/8" cable and of course the rear drag 3/4".

 

[rizzo]

OK, the 3 part line is correct. The boom was never designed with a 4 part line. To simply put it, the correct hoist block has a single sheave and a pin at the top. The cable is reaved around one of the boom sheaves, through the hoist block, back around the other boom sheave and attaches at the pin on the top of the hoist block. Looking at your hoist block pictured above I'd say you are running too small of sheaves, binding the cable. With the correct hoist block and properly lubed boom sheaves, the block will be of sufficient weight to pay out cable without effort or binding. Also as a note, the system was designed with enough forethought that when you are jibbing out the boom and paying out cable, it will keep the hoist block pretty close to the same level. It does a similar action when raising the boom and lowering the hoist. Finding the correct hoist block and a little lube work will square this away. I do have that hoist block on my deuce wrecker but can't find a deuce hoist block so I can't give it up. I can get pics if you need them.
I was re reading and needed to add this, Hawthorne Tractor sales in Lake City FL had racks of blocks, snatch and hoist if you run out of options. John Winslow in NC has new 3/4" correct wrecker chanins as well. Your front winch should have 5/8" cable and of course the rear drag 3/4".

x2

the block you have on there now looks like the one for the rear winch.

3/4 double sheave with 5/8 single sheave next to it

http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b...trucks/?action=view&current=snatchblocks2.jpg

3/4 single sheave

http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b...trucks/?action=view&current=snatchblocks3.jpg

 

[rizzo]

here is the other side of the 3/4 double sheave

matches yours

 

[No.2Diesel]

This is how a 3 part line is strung with two pulleys on the boom tip and a one pulley sheave block. The wire rope should be 9/16" diameter.

The 5ton TMs also illustrate how a 3 part line is strung. I hope this helps you out.

 

[rizzo]

this is mine

the second pic is a size comparison

 

[gimpyrobb]

My block is just like the one in Rizzo's semi trl pic.