HMMWV Fording Kit Delimma

[Skycop]

Our department is looking at a few HMMWVs on DRMO. Our dilemma is that some of the very clean units have the deep water kits installed and others have the winch installed...of course we can't find any that have both.

Is the winch on the HMMWV like the M35 in that it is PTO driven, or is it an electrical set up? I am trying to decide which units we will want to request and which "accessory" will be the easiest for us to add when we get it here.

Also, with regards to the deep water fording kit, is there anything extra to them other than the breather extension and exhaust extension, or are they like the M35 deep water fording kits that require extra plumbing and such for slobber tubes etc?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Darwin T]

i am not that into HMMWVs (can't afford one ). but i think the winches are either electric or hydrolic and NOT PTO driven. i know i have seen the electric remotes for sale so you don't have stand next to it in a mud hole.

 

[emmado22]

The HMMWV 6K and 9K winches are electric, the 10.5K is hydralic.

 

[Skycop]

Thank you very much for the info. Electric winches are easy enough to install. Now on to the deep water fording kit questions!

 

[nf6x]

In addition to the tall air intake and exhaust pipe, the fording kit also routes all of the breather vents to a line going up the side of the intake pipe (if I recall correctly). There's a valve near the driver's right knee related to the fording kit; I don't recall exactly what it does. The air intake is more than just a tall pipe; it also connects to the air filter differently. From memory (I haven't looked at that part of mine in a long time), the non-fording configuration has the filter housing and intake mushroom connected to a box that's part of the body, while the fording kit makes the connection with a rubber elbow routed through that box.

I presently have the tall snorkel and tailpipe removed from my truck (I still have them for when I change my mind), but I left the rest of the fording kit intact. Personally, I wouldn't consider actually fording the truck without going over it with a fine-tooth comb, checking/replacing all of the seals and vent lines, checking all of the wiring, etc. I converted my truck to a commo shelter carrier, and I don't know if a fording kit even makes sense on it.

 

[jasonjc]

Think about this. If they have the deep water fording kits, they most likely came from the USMC. They would drive these off the ship/landing craft thought the SALT water. Salt is vary bad to most evrey thing on a truck. Thats just my thoughts. I would not want one.

 

[nf6x]

Another common feature on USMC HMMWVs, based on my experience crawling over the Riverside Auto Auction collection back in 2000, is added drainage in the floor panels. The added drainage holes generally appeared to have been made with the vehicle's pioneer kit pick, a bayonet, gunfire, etc.

 

[Skycop]

These vehicles have less than 1000 miles on them and appear to be brand new. We will be inspecting them prior to accepting them. I know about salt water and generally stay away from vehicles operated even near the coast, however, these particular units are, by far, the nicest ones I have found in the 4 years of having access to DRMO.

I will keep you posted. Thanks for the information on the fording kit. If we happened to get a HMMWV that didn't have the kit installed, does anyone know where to pick one up or how to make one? I found the great post by kurtkds about the M35 that he put together, but didn't know if there were any kits "off the shelf."

 

[richark998]

The maintenance and installation of the deep water fording kit is covered in detail with lots of illustrations in Army TM 9-2320-280-20-3. Mine was originally equipped with a fording kit but it was removed probably when it was surplussed out. It still had the valve and all the plumbing though. I had to find the intake extension and high exhaust and add them later.

 

[Augi]

IIRC there is an MWO kit to add the deep fording capability. The kit is not that complex. Aside from the obvious snorkle and exhaust stack, there is a reinforcement plate that rivets or bolts into the wheelhouse where the exhaust mounts, a different CDR valve, a sensor cup, a control valve, a cap to replace the airbox dust unloader, a vented power steering reservoir cap and some extra vent line tubing.

All of the vent lines from the drive train and the power steering reservoir cap tee together and connect to one port on the control valve. The other two ports connect to the air filter housing and the CDR valve. The control valve switch connects the vent lines to the air filter housing in "Vent" mode and the CDR valve in "Ford" mode.

The sensor cup is also connected to the CDR valve. As the water level rises and the cup fills with water, air pressure builds in the line and exerts force on the CDR diaphragm. This causes some amount of crank case pressure to be diverted from the CDR through the line to the control valve. If the control valve is set to "Ford" and the CDR is connected to all the vent lines, all of the drive train is pressurized by the engine. As the water level in the sensor cup rises, more pressure is diverted to the drive train. This way water won't push in through the seals when components are submerged because the pressure is equalized inside and out.

If you don't plan to go that deep or be submerged for that long, having the snorkel and exhaust are probably enough to keep you going and they are easy to procure and install.

Without the DWF kit, all the vent lines tee into the air filter housing, so you won't suck water in that route.

Augi

Edited to add the dust unloader cap and vented power steering cap.

 

[emmado22]

One question.. Do you REALLY HONESTLY plan on driving into water that is that deep that you need the fording kit for?

 

[17 Legion]

That's my question. I understand being ready, but I'm hoping to never have to drive into 5 feet of water.

 

[Skycop]

Augi: Thank you very much for the explanation. Very well written and much appreciated!

emmado22: Unfortunately, it is a pretty good possibility that we may have to as we have flooding here pretty bad at least every year to every 2 years. Usually when this happens, no one can get to the folks who need help and everyone is stuck....literally. We received an M35A3 from DRMO about a year and a half and have had to use it 2x for these types of events already.

 

[sandcobra164]

The problem with driving a HMMWV in deep water is there is not much to keep it out of the cabin. In fact there a holes in the floor pan that will allow it right into the truck so even though it's rated at 5 feet of water, you're crew along with yourself will be underwater trapped inside so to speak. Also, I've never seen a USMC HMMWV that had an electric winch on the front, they've all been hydraulic powered by the power steering pump. I have seen a few electric rear mounted winches but they are rare.

 

[Augi]

The valve by your right knee is to keep the fan from coming on.

The fan cutoff switch is actually on the side of the injection pump and is attached to the throttle. You trip the switch by flooring the throttle. Try it on the highway next time you are driving and the fan comes on.

Part of the fording procedure is to blip the throttle before entering the water to send the signal to the time delay module to disengage the clutch if it is not already.

I think the FMTV's or some other larger trucks have fan a clutch disengage switch in the cab.

The vents for the trans, transmission, the diff's, and power steering pump all tie into a tube that comes up along side the intake stack and terminate just below the mushroom cap.

The tube that comes up along the side of the intake stack is the fuel tank vent. There is a little inline filter just under the hood at the base of the stack.

The nipple on the side of the air cleaner housing is where the vent lines attach.

You also want to ensure that on the passenger side on the air filter can, the "duckbill" dust unloader has been replaced with a solid rubber cover.

Good catch, I forgot about the dust unloader.

 

[sandcobra164]

Augi,
Thanks for clearing up my misinformation. I had always been told that the valve by your right knee labeled Vent on the top and Deep Ford on the bottom was to disconnect the fan. I took a look at a few partially disassembled HMMWV's to get the real story behind it after reading your post. That valve has 3 lines coming into it. The top one comes from the vent tubing on the passenger side of the frame rail, the middle one connects to the airbox before the filter and the bottom one goes to the CDR valve. In the vent position, it allows airflow between the frame vent tubes and the airbox and blocks the CDR valve hose. In Deep Ford, it blocks the frame vent tubes and connects the hose from the CDR to the airbox. I also noticed you're spot on concerning the fuel tank vent and the little filter located right behind the surge tank. Thanks for your knowledge, now I know just a little more than I did.

 

[steelsoldiers]

Great discussion here folks. I have been considering how to modify my fording kit since the installation of the Cummins changed a few things. The 6BT doesn't use a CDR so that part of the design won't work. It uses a "slobber tube" or "road draft tube" to expel crank gasses. I thought about adapting the M939A2 fording valve since the 8.3CTA Cummins is very similar to the 5.9L. That valve applies positive air pressure to the engine, axles, trans and t-case. I am planning on having on-board air anyways so that could work.

I guess for now I will just hook everything back up to the air filter housing and leave it in the vent position. I am planning on taking a few inches off of my fording exhaust stack so it will clear parking garages, etc... It will still look cool and remain functional.

 

[actionpaintball]

I bought my complete deep water fording kit for a few hundred dollars... They are still around and take a few hours to do a complete and clean install. If you can't decide bewteen a winch and DWF kit; I would reccomend getting one with a nice working winch. The DWF kit is much easier and cheaper to install.

 

[Augi]

The other thing I forgot to mention was the power steering reservoir cap. The DWF part is center drilled and has a hose barb coming out the top. It is then tee'd into the rest of the drivetrain vent system.

Augi

 

[Skycop]

Thank you all very much for the information. I will keep you posted on what we end up with.