If you own an M35 you need this!

[Rattlehead]

I bought a double splined axle and a Selectro hub from Arthur Bloom a couple of years ago, and it is great. I have it installed in the left rear-most axle. It makes a noticeable difference in turning radius and generally handles much better when driving around town, because you dont have the tandems trying to push you in a straight line during a turn. This also saves wear and tear on your front tires. Just wish the Oversion hubs were out when I bought it! Anyone want to trade one for a Selectro? ha ha.

 

[jimk]

Readyman,
Perhaps you could maintain u-joint phasing by welding up the area between one spline(s) .If you removed 2 splines in the collar (180* apart) it would re-engage only when correct.Getting it to re-engage on the fly may be problematic.Maybe bevel the ends.

Phase vibrations should be minimal with a shaft that is near straight line.Try your idea and let us know what you find.

Still, Lock out hubs sound like an easy solution.

I took my inter-axle drive shaft out for a 600 mile road trip.Trailer weight of about 10T for 300.No problems.Used frt axle only for wet grass/ soft lawn.

Made a 60 mile trip with 13.5T trailer (10.5T Stalwart) as 6x2. Needed front axle on pavement once,more for peace of mind,climing one big hill. Deuce would not pull second(high) on the hill. 1/2 mile is a long way at 5MPH. 6x4 again on the lawns. Deuce not built for this load (or legal GVCW). Still no problems.

JimK

FV624
M35A2
M706

The Three Stooges

 

[hot rod deuce]

HEY how do you like the stalwart? I see it is an MK2 I am going to the UK to pick up some goods, let me know if you need anything.


Ready man did have what you are talking about but he had it milled out....

 

[oifvet]

*(I posted this on a similar thread. Maybe more applicable here)
After several phone conversations with the folks at Chuck's Trucks (Selectro), and Ouverson Engineering (the other one), I have chosen the Ouversons. For one, Chuck's Trucks wouldn't sell me just one hub and one axle, even though I told them it was for the rear forward dual. So that stuck me with 2x the cost and a hub and axle I didn't need. Actually, we didn't even discuss the axle, so I don't even know if they have a double-splined axle for a rear axle lock-out application. Anyway, that made the decision that much easier. Chuck's denied any water issues. They told me to clean and inspect regularly, which is true with anything. I cannot fault them there. The guy I talked to at Ouverson sold me on theirs when he described the quality assurance and engineering that goes into not only the casting, machining, and tolerances, but the water-proofing using three O-ring seals. I was impressed. An easy choice, though I can be overly choosy when it comes to purchases. Actually, I get that way with just about anything I buy. I do extend much thanks to everyone at Steel Soldiers for all the help in making these choices!

 

[m-35tom]

the obvious problem with an interconnect shaft disconnect is that it depowers the rear rear which is the one with the most traction. i wish hubs were available for the air locker axles, they have a larger, finer spline.........

 

[jwaller]

just thought I'd post on here as it looks like I'm prob the one with the most miles and have had this setup on my truck for the longest.

I've had this setup on my deuce for almost a year now and have put about 10k miles on it so far. And the results are Fantastic. No problems whatsoever. Actually the front tandem axle runs about 30degress cooler than the rear after a 50 mile highway cruise via a hand held temp gun. I have removed wheels on both axles and inspected wheel bearings and they are perfect.

so far I'm as happy as a clam. Still works flawlessly and with the flip of the hub knob it's back to stock deuce. Great thing is that is has saved my new 11x20's from premature wear and tear.

 

[dabtl]

Judging from Ouverson's pricing on the lock out hubs and axles on the website, this should be in the $600 range to do. I would be very interested, even at that price.

 

[TacticalTruck]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

As explained, no problems wih the spiders, both carriers will be spinning the same speed so the only spidergear movement will come from different tire curcumferences.

I think we're talking about one carrier's spider gears, the one with the disconnect. How can tire circumference make a difference when the carrier is no longer connected to the tire? The carrier is going to act as if the connected wheel is breaking traction and spinning faster than the disconnected side thus spinning up the spider gears. Through resistence in the spider gears and lack of resistence in the disconnected axle shaft, the disconnected axle shaft may start rotating as you get up to speed and there by slowing the spider gear rotation down. None of this may matter if the spider gears can hold up to the abuse but we won't know until someone has a falure or Bjorn figures out a way to measure spider gear speed.
Jeff

 

[TacticalTruck]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

I also can't grasp how one axle can have more traction than the other under this suspension system. Both axles are on a see-saw to one point on the frame. How could that put more pressure on one axle over another? Unless applying torque to only one axle creates a moment on the whole system there by applying more down force on the rear rear over the front rear.
Jeff

 

[Recovry4x4]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

Both carriers will still be turning at the same speed as the inter axle drive shaft will still be there. The axle that is still in place will be spinning as well so it will be turning the spiders. If you stopped the carrier from truning and still had the remaining axle turning, you would be spinning the life out of the spider gears. Since the carrier is still being rotated at the same speed, very litttle spider gear action will occur. Theroetically in a straight line with tires of the exact same circumference there would be no spider gear movement at all. Need to remember that we are talking tandem axles and both are linked together. I suck at math but look at it this way. Both rear carriers are spining at X speed. All the rear tires are spinning at Y RPM which makes the 3 axles spin at that RPM. Since the RPM of the carriers is constant as are the 3 axles, there will be virtually no movement of the spider gears of the axle with the unlocked hub.I wish I could explain it as easy as I can figure it.

 

[TacticalTruck]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

I agree that both carriers will be turning at the same speed but what we are concerned with is the differtial speed in the one axle assy with the disconnected axle shaft. Do you agree that one axle shaft will be turning with the tires and one will not?

Jeff

 

[TacticalTruck]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

It seems to me the whole point of the excercise is to relieve wind up between the axles created when the carriers want to spin at different speeds either from differences in tire diameter or differences in distance traveled in turning. To relieve the wind up you disconect one axle shaft in one axle. Half of that axle is now open and no longer turning and the other half is turning with the carrier which is turning at the same rate as the other carrier. It now has a great amount of differential speed thereby spinning the spider gears.
Jeff

 

[Recovry4x4]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

Yes one shaft will be turning with the tires and one not. But if the one turining is going the same speed as the carrier the spider gears won't spin. Let me try it this way. Lets say the aft rear axle has both shafts in place. The carrier is turning at Y RPM than so will the spiders right? So if the aft rear axle carrier and spiders are turning at the same RPM, so will the fore axle carrier right? They are connected rigidly. Since one axle is still in place and assuming the tires are the same size, then the one axle is going to spin at the same Y RPM. Also maybe it will help to differentiate between axle gears and spider gears. The axle gears spin at the same RPM as the carrier unless differetiation is needed. Since the axle gear is connected to the axle which is connected to the tire, they will be spinning at the same speed as the rest of the rear components. If the axle gear of the remaining axle is turning at the same speed as the carrier no spider action will occur.

 

[Recovry4x4]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

Half of that axle is now open and no longer turning and the other half is turning with the carrier which is turning at the same rate as the other carrier. It now has a great amount of differential speed thereby spinning the spider gears.

If the axle gear and the carrier are spinning at the same RPM, how can the spiders move?

 

[Stretch44875]

This has been covered before. Took me a while to grasp the concept the first time, but kenny is right, the spider gears won't turn in a straight line.

I can try to explain, but I suck at it. All four tires on both axles are spinning the same rate in a straight line. The carrier is connected to the driveshaft, and turns no matter if the axle shafts are pulled.

With one axle pulled, the tire is driven by road speed, which happens to be the same speed as the carrier is driven by the driveshaft. So the spider gears are moving with the carrier, and with the connected tire, since it is driven by the road. The disconnected tire is also moving at the same speed.

I realize this may be murky, ask I and will try to explain what I am thinking.

Dennis

 

[TacticalTruck]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

If the axle gear and the carrier are spinning at the same RPM, how can the spiders move?

Don't spider gears turn inside the carrier when one axle shaft is rotating at a different speed than the other axle shaft? Isn't that their job?

 

[m-35tom]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

there will be no spinning of spider gears. the carrier will be turning at the speed needed to go that mph and the one connected axle will turn at the speed needed to go the same mph. the axle and the carrier will be turning the same speed. the diff side gear on the connected axle will drive the spiders at the same speed as the carrier turns so no spider movement.

next issue, watch a big truck when it pulls off from a stop. the rear frame will rise. this is because the tractive force of the tires causes an torque reaction in the axle housing which is transmitted to the frame through the suspension and pushes the tires onto the road. depending on the suspension geometry one axle will have more push than the other.

 

[TacticalTruck]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

there will be no spinning of spider gears. the carrier will be turning at the speed needed to go that mph and the one connected axle will turn at the speed needed to go the same mph. the axle and the carrier will be turning the same speed. the diff side gear on the connected axle will drive the spiders at the same speed as the carrier turns so no spider movement.

next issue, watch a big truck when it pulls off from a stop. the rear frame will rise. this is because the tractive force of the tires causes an torque reaction in the axle housing which is transmitted to the frame through the suspension and pushes the tires onto the road. depending on the suspension geometry one axle will have more push than the other.

I agree if the axle is removed completely but i think the mass of the axle shaft disconnected at the wheel but still attached to the carrier will apply force to the spiders and make them turn.....maybe.

on the second paragraph, i agree the torque reaction may create an imbalance in power transmitted to the ground but also understand most big trucks have separate suspensions for each axle.

great discussion guys but Laura's yelling at me. We had the first rain here in forever, i gotta go blade the driveway.
Jeff

 

[m-35tom]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: from 6x6 to 6x2

the axle with the unlocked hub is just driven by the diff side gear at the carrier speed.

in reality the deuce has seperate suspension for each rear axle in the view of the torque links, one set from the rear and one set from the front. it is only the spring pack that put equal chassis weight on the axles. the axle torque acts through the torque links independly of the springs which adds more weight to the rear most axle on accelleration.

 

[oifvet]

Since I'm poised to drop the big $$ on this project, I'm following this like a M-149 hanging on a deuce by the pintle.
I'm tracking, but I'm starting to sway side to side like a cheap single-axle trailer from Tractor Supply Co. With that going on, got to let up on the throttle a bit.
I'm good with the understanding of everything turning the same speed with straight line driving. But what percentage of the total time are the wheels really all running a true straight line? With the crown in the road, no road EVER being truly straight or level, no tire ever truly being the exact same circumference as the next, an so on.
(I think my brain is bleeding).