IL - M1009 Will Not Start

[Warthog]

I'll try and isolate the mounting and see if that changes anything...if not I''ll go back and get the NAPA# ST85 or Advance Auto #S603.

If I can fix this eletrical issue next will be the fuel/air leakage. The shop put in a cheap inline filter bypassing the Stanadyne system. When I went to hook it back up they lost the lower screw in valve so I tapped it and added a brass 1/4 turn valve. I noticed it is still leaking somewhere so I assume its also letting air in the system. Need to address this before attempting to crack open injector lines.

More the likely it is the fuel pressure sensor under the filter. They are a known issue for leaks.

 

[cucvrus]

Just eliminate that pressure switch with a self tapping screw and some sealant if you can't find any. I find them on Ebay for less then $20. I have 1 truck that has the screw in it. It was out of desperation on a snowy night or I would have fixed it right. Been that way a couple years.But whatever works.

 

[48cj2a]

All glowplug relays are not the same. They may look alike but can function differently.
The way the CUCVs are wired the Glowplug relay has to be an isolated ground unit.

All glowplug relays are not the same. They may look alike but can function differently.
The way the CUCVs are wired the Glowplug relay has to be an isolated ground unit.

The BWD GPR7 does not have an isolated ground and the "S" marked terminal is grounded to the mounting flange. Tonight, I'll attempt to isolate the GPR7 first to see if that works. The one I'm replacing is exactly the same with the S and I terminals and looks brand new, but not sure if the previous CARX shop might have replaced this attempting the repair.

Upon further research this morning there are a few others that may be suitable substitutes but the ECH GPR109 has been the cheapest listed at $35.27 and has a 10% discount if you order/reserve online at your local store:

ECH GPR109 (watchout for recent GPRs with I double checked the fuses again and even ohm checked them to be sure. I did notice some wire taps in the fuse block and after yesterday's review of Warthogs fuse box information that I created a downloadable pdf, I need to see where this stuff is all going. There is an aftermarket radio installed, an odd looking dome lamp, a tap into the circuit 12 Voltmeter 24v source and there is also an on/off switch mounted next to the voltmeter but the owner does not know what it is for.

ECH GPR110
Dorman 904-194
BWD GPR11
Motorcraft DY861
BWD GPR12 (comes with a pigtail on the two small terminals)
Motorcraft DY860 (comes with a pigtail on the two small terminals)
MasterPro 2DR1092
International OEM 1831646c1
Ford OEM F81Z-12B533-AC

I ended up going with the S-603 solenoid from Oreillys due to the GPR7 and GRP109 both having the "S" and "I" terminals.

 

[doghead]

Be aware, with the wrong one installed, your glow plugs would have been powered the whole time your key was on.

You probably need new GPs.

 

[48cj2a]

They were all 2.8ohms during the #19 troubleshooting steps. Is there any other test to confirm good or fried?

 

[cucvrus]

I always just take them out and look at them. I test them with some oil and a wire. if it smokes instantly it's good. if not scrap. Try testing it a few times. I can usually tell just by looking at them if they are good.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Taking the GP's out just to test them seems tedious and unnecessary. I use a test light hooked up to battery +, take all the GP wires off, touch test light to spade. If it lights, its good. No light, replace. Very quick procedure.

 

[cucvrus]

Taking the GP's out just to test them seems tedious and unnecessary. I use a test light hooked up to battery +, take all the GP wires off, touch test light to spade. If it lights, its good. No light, replace. Very quick procedure.

Imagine that. I have been doing it all wrong all these years. NOT. it still gives you a heads up and a bird eye view of the glow plugs and the glow plug tips. Better catch one early that is swelling then wait till you have to pry and curse in the middle of the worst snow storm in history. I may do it the hard way but I always say do or do not. There is no try. When I cut corners it costs me money. That is why I pull them and look at them. A 10 minute job and I have the confidence and peace of mind. Not to say that the next day one will swell or burn out. That goes with the vehicle always has. This is just my opinion do as you wish. I run them every day. not just in parades and to drive on Sundays. Everyday.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Hey, no garage queen here. I run mine every day for the past 11 years. But I use AC 60's, they don't swell. I recall a previous post of yours where you stated you use the old original design plugs (AC13,11 or 9's?) They are outdated and prone to failure, there's your issue.

 

[cucvrus]

I have no issues. My vehicles are all running on the 13 G plugs. I am out dated myself and I am still running. And believe me a lot faster and longer then the newer models. Any glow plug is prone to failure. Any thing. Leak proof seals will. Nothing is infallible if it is man made it will fail. Peace man do as you want I have the same vehicles for over 20 years and only get rid of them when they don't pass inspection anymore and I want to get rid of them. So I sell them to someone else that wants to do the work to them. That failure scenario is possible on any combination that you come up with. Any. I am never going to be convinced that a vehicle that started and ran for the past 30 + years is going to do something different because I decided to put a different glow plug in it. It either starts or it don't start. That my spin on it. You are entitled to your own opinion I just am not on board with it. That's fine. I returned many of the CUCV vehicles to stock for many people that just followed threads and things they read on the internet. I just think. Why? But I fold what they give me to fix it. That is nice. I just wish that I did not have to junk so many CUCV's that were hacked up so badly that they were not worth anything but parts.

 

[48cj2a]

Doghead or Warthog - it was getting dark and raining when I got home last night so I did not attempt the GPR chassis ground isolation, but got me to thinking again (dangerous).

I was curious if the Doghead Starter Relay (Napa part# 7-01860-1) mod has an isolated ground or not and if not if I could reuse this relay for this purpose since I already have it on hand and could use the "S" marked terminal as the ground?

 

[48cj2a]

Doghead or Warthog - it was getting dark and raining when I got home last night so I did not attempt the GPR chassis ground isolation, but got me to thinking again (dangerous).

Isolated the ground tonight by mounting the GPR on a piece of peg board but it made no difference on the orange glow plug terminal. But the 12v on the blue terminal is no longer there now with the battery disconnect open.

I'll pick up the GPR109 from Napa now and see if this corrects the issue or changes the symptoms.

 

[48cj2a]

Ordered the GPR109 online for pickup in the store...Mrs stopped and picked it up and sorry to report that this one in the original Napa box also has the "S" and "I" terminals on it so I'm now convinced as I earlier stated that when supplies are exhausted this is now the replacement part.

So what are my alternatives if this is wrong?

 

[doghead]

Test it with your meter.

 

[48cj2a]

GPR109:
"S" & "I" shorted together
neither shorted to mount
large lugs open to all terminals

GPR7:
"S" & "I" shorted together
neither shorted to mount
large lugs open to all terminals

GPR7: mounted to fiber peg board (not chassis mounted to isolate the grd)

key off...
Red Pwr - 13.5v
Org GP - 0v
Red - 0v
LtBlu - 0v

key on...
Red pwr - 12.73v
Org GP - 0v
Red - 12.34v
LtBlu - 12.38v

Reluctant to try GPR109 if I need to return it.

 

[tim292stro]

Looks like your relay is showing the correct voltages for not glowing the plugs (GP-card idle). If you short the blue control terminal to ground you should hear a click, and your orange load terminal should show the same voltage as your red load terminal.

Once you've verified that and your fuses, you can take a look at the glow plug controller card under the dash.

 

[48cj2a]

Even though I'm showing 12v on the Ltblue and its showing continuity with the other red terminal is it safe to ground that terminal for testing?

 

[tim292stro]

The GP controller "pulls" the blue wire low (to ground) to activate the glow plug relay. It shows continuity because the relay coil is a "wire" - specifically magnet wire. one end of the coil wire is the red control wire, the other end of the coil wire is the blue control wire.

The 12.35V you see on the red control wire is sourced from the ignition switch circuit on the GM standard 12V wiring.

The GP load terminals are electrically isolated from the case and the control wires and circuits - there should be no connections between the GP load and the control other than what the relay mechanically does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Okc3UrgtqY

 

[48cj2a]

Update:

Bench tested the GPR7 with the battery...pwr leads on the "S" and "I" terminals immediate clunk. Continuity between the load and GP terminals.

Reinstalled the GPR7 mounted on the piece of peg board, isolating the mount from the truck chassis.

Key on...no GPR clunk.

Grd to the LtBlue terminal - immediate clunk but GPR is buzzing

I did do a quick check and GP terminal was getting the correct voltage but the GPR is buzzing.

Ran the GPR109 back to Napa tonight because it had the "S" and "I" terminals and didn't want to chance trying it since it had the same characteristics as the GPR7 on the continuity test and possible not be able to return it if used.


Picked up an BWD S-603 at Oreilly's and will try that tomorrow night after work. Can this me mounted directly on the firewall piece or does it need to be isolated?


If anyone gets a NAPA GPR109 check the relay before leaving the store to see if it has the "S" and "I" markings as I do believe this is now the part being packaged after old stock is exhausted.

 

[tim292stro]

With the GP relay disconnected and the ring terminals for that relay insulated (wrap a latex/nitrile glove around it under the hood), then under the dash:

• With the key off, if you pull the GP card under the dash and stick one of the multi-meter leads in the contact for the light blue wire, then touch the other lead to anything substantially metal - you should measure 0volts.
• With the key off, if you pull the GP card under the dash and stick one of the multi-meter leads in the contact for the light blue wire, then touch the other lead to anything substantially metal - you should measure infinite Ohms or "Open Circuit".
• With the key on, if you pull the GP card under the dash and stick one of the multi-meter leads in the contact for the light blue wire, then touch the other lead to anything substantially metal - you should measure 0volts.

If any of the above checks does not equal the expected outcome then there is something wrong with the blue wire circuit/wire/contact (GP relay trigger).


With the GP relay removed from the circuit, under the hood:

• Connect one test lead to the GP relay's red control wire (smaller red terminal), the other lead to something substantially metal (engine, frame, wiper motor base) - with the key off you should measure 0volts.
• Connect one test lead to the GP relay's red control wire (smaller red terminal), the other lead to something substantially metal (engine, frame, wiper motor base) - with the key on you should measure about 12volts.

If either of those above check does not match the expected outcome there is something wrong with the GP relay supply (the thin red wire circuit.


If both of those are working as expected, you should be clear to install the new GP relay you pick up to the factory wiring.

In general it is safe to ground the blue wire to turn on the glow plugs, when unmodified factory wiring is in place (another reason we advocate here for not going cuckoo with changes from OEM). The GP card has an electronic switch (called a transistor) then when active connects the blue wire to the GP card's ground wire. Doing many switches in parallel from the blue wire to ground would have the same effect - whoever is connecting the circuit to ground is in control.

This is why pre-wiring a glow-plug switch as a backup is safe to do with a functioning GP card.