Increasing the air intake in a deuce

[WOLF DOG]

Did you also walk up hill, to school, both ways?

In the snow with no shoes

 

[SCSG-G4]

So by your math the trucks are physically incapable of making more than 2.27 psi of boost without destroying the filter? How is it that C and D turbo equipped truck make far more than this on a stock filter? Where is the incoming air coming from for the turbo to compress?

At maximum rated RPM, lower RPM would allow for more boost simply because the cylinders are not taking a gulp of air as often. I'll let someone else do the math to see where the 6 psi of boost the GI turbos peaks out.

 

[rustystud]

In the snow with no shoes

That's so funny ! My father used to tell us how he and his brothers and sisters had to walk 10 miles through the Bad Lands past the Indian Reservation (Sioux I believe) to reach a one room school house. Of course that was in the 20's . I believe the town is still there. Glendo, South Dakota . Of course only twenty or so people still live there now.

 

[Floridianson]

I never said it would make reliable HP. Just if he wanted a "little more" power then go with a new Turbo.
Need to read what was posted, not make assumptions.

Thats funny most people that say they bypassed there FDC and adjusted there fuel are happy with the way the run now and feel the differance. You ever bypass your FDC or do you still say you like it being there. Nothing wrong with a little fuel in your oil pan and keeping the military fuel set, right. A little "more power" will happen when you bypass and adjust the fuel. Yes less restrictive air, no muffler and bypass FDC is all you will get with such a low HP motor and the way the intake system is set up while trying to keep EGT's down. 300 hp right your EGT's with the stock set up would jump fast and be undriveable other than the drag strip. There were questions that were not asked or answered by the OP to even think about waisting your money on a different turbo.
Member Razer Has stock set up but changed to a LDS IP no turbo change bypassed FDC and runs at 2850 rpm and 900* EGT's while pulling a 30 foot trailer at 63 MPH level ground and already put 30k on the milage.
Ok real question why would you put a bigger turbo no real good modifications plus on that can carry it's boost up to 3600RPM and only run the Deuce at 2600 rpm (some people won't do that ) and spools slower?

 

[INFChief]

At maximum rated RPM, lower RPM would allow for more boost simply because the cylinders are not taking a gulp of air as often. I'll let someone else do the math to see where the 6 psi of boost the GI turbos peaks out.

As a power-adder, a turbo charges a cylinder with air. Boost is relative because a cylinder does not ‘grow’ as RPM’s increase. You press the throttle telling the fuel system to deliver more fuel to compensate for the load you are applying. The turbo, or supercharger, responds by increasingly charging more air - up to a certain point (max boost) - to proportionately mix with the fuel you told the system to deliver. A waste gate is designed to prevent over-charging and consequently destroying an engine by dumping excess “boost”.

Ideally we’re talking about volumetric efficiency and simple ways to realize power gains on a grossly underrated Diesel engine.

A bloke could completely remove the air cleaner and see minimal gains only because restrictors were removed. A prudent person would agree that any gains would not be worth the diminished engine life. So we look for the most sensible ways to improve performance by looking for ways to add fuel / air to best maximize existing cubic inch displacement. Bolt on’s like a ‘bigger’ turbo or a turbo that’s spools up faster or a tweaked or new injector pump and or injectors are, by far, the most practical.

Unless one is building an absolute BEAST 1978 deuce & 1/2 practicality limits us. And anyone who is building a $20,000 to $60,000 engine most likely won’t be stuffing it in to a M35 series type truck.

 

[Floridianson]

I never said it would make reliable HP. Just if he wanted a "little more" power then go with a new Turbo.
Need to read what was posted, not make assumptions.

Don't get your panties in a wad and please DO NOT tell me what I assumed and yea I should have said driveability or waiting for the turbo to spool up. This is and will be discussion and learn sight. Heck you even learned that the compression ratio is 22:1 not 24:1 on our Deuce this week thanks too me. As for ASSumption's I made none but asked questions to help get him a "little more power" and posted the correct answer. As for more holes in the air filter I do not know. He did not say he wanted a race truck!

As a side note or for your education using quotation marks around just a word when on the computer means you are being sarcastic or so called. It's not a so called "plunger" it is a plunger.

 

[WOLF DOG]

That's so funny ! My father used to tell us how he and his brothers and sisters had to walk 10 miles through the Bad Lands past the Indian Reservation (Sioux I believe) to reach a one room school house. Of course that was in the 20's . I believe the town is still there. Glendo, South Dakota . Of course only twenty or so people still live there now.

I actually did go to a three room school house for 6 years, from 1961 to 1967. First through sixth grades, two grades per room.

 

[INFChief]

I actually did go to a three room school house for 6 years, from 1961 to 1967. First through sixth grades, two grades per room.

I spent a considerable amount of time in the principals office - does that count as a one-room-schoolhouse? Lol

 

[FloridaAKM]

I spent a considerable amount of time in the principals office - does that count as a one-room-schoolhouse? Lol

My school was bigger than a 3 room, but I did spend a larger than normal time in the Principals office as she was my great Aunt. Unfortunately for me, it was not always a friendly visit for me.

 

[Mullaney]

My school was bigger than a 3 room, but I did spend a larger than normal time in the Principals office as she was my great Aunt. Unfortunately for me, it was not always a friendly visit for me.

.
Yeah, and back in our day - if you got caught doing something you shouldn't have - you might get the board of education treatment at school and another one when you got home!

 

[INFChief]

.
Yeah, and back in our day - if you got caught doing something you shouldn't have - you might get the board of education treatment at school and another one when you got home!

You got that right!

 

[rustystud]

Don't get your panties in a wad and please DO NOT tell me what I assumed and yea I should have said driveability or waiting for the turbo to spool up. This is and will be discussion and learn sight. Heck you even learned that the compression ratio is 22:1 not 24:1 on our Deuce this week thanks too me. As for ASSumption's I made none but asked questions to help get him a "little more power" and posted the correct answer. As for more holes in the air filter I do not know. He did not say he wanted a race truck!

As a side note or for your education using quotation marks around just a word when on the computer means you are being sarcastic or so called. It's not a so called "plunger" it is a plunger.

What are you ranting about ?
The guy just wanted a little more HP, which a slightly larger and faster spooling turbo will provide. As far as telling me how much compression the deuce had, I cannot remember all the details about a particular engine, as I worked on ALL engines. Considering I said 24 off the top of my head and the actual number was 22 is not bad. How many engine facts can you mention without consulting a manual ? That is why there is the factory service manual ! To look up diddly little facts like that. Unlike you I actually worked as a mechanic for over 40 years, so there is no way I can possibly remember all the details about every engine I worked on. That is not to say I don't know how to work on and fix any engine. I can, and have. Can you say the same ? What is the head torque of a Deutz 20 HP engine ? Or here's an easy one. What's the torque of the main rod bolts on a 250 Cummins ? Had to look up the answers didn't you.
Really, get over yourself.
Next thing your going to be ranting on is my "ASE" Master Certifications .
Well I proved I had them. Up to date to 2000. What you never understood is once you have a "Master" certification you will always have it. It doesn't just "go away" ! Just like a lawyers or Doctors degree. Once you have it, you have it !
The only reason they have you "recertify" (which is just a small simple test by the way on just the recent new technolgies) is to say you can work on the newest car/truck with all the new technology on it.
I'm still certified as a Master Mechanic on all vehicles previous to my last certification date.
So any vehicle up to 2000 I can work on and the "ASE" will say I'm a Master Mechanic for those vehicles.
Very simple.
So since our Deuces where last made in 1989, I'm very confident in saying I'm a Master Mechanic who can work on all aspects of this truck.
Can you say the same thing Floridianson ? If not then stop this stupid petty little nit picking thing you have going on against me. Jealousy does not become you.

 

[fleetmech]

Good to see theres a few other Dodge/ Cummins guys here. One thing is for sure, the stock deuce intake wouldn't cut it on anything but the mildest of 5.9s. Without a doubt its smaller than the ones on a 160 horse first gen. I've looked at the mushroom cap and assorted pipes many times and wondered how it gets past 1k rpm without choking itself out... lol. I assume the rest of the engines volumetric efficiency must be so low as to render it largely moot.

FWIW I know intake flows have been discussed here before. I think its well agreed that the Napa/ civvy filter doesn't flow as much as the MIL spec one does (though it doesn't seem to bother my truck any)

I also recall a thread or two about some upgrade/ high performance filters that would or could be made to fit the stock housing. I seem to recall the results with those filters were not exceptional.

 

[Gypsyman]

Compared to the Cummins that we deal with I look at these as a heavy equipment/tractor engine that is very good at its intended purpose. It performs in brutal conditions when needed and makes rated power on what I would consider the nastiest of fuels. What more could you ask from a powerplant?

Other than giving it slightly more than it needs for airflow so that it doesn't impede power production as the filter clogs I don't see this as a platform that would lend itself to any type of high performance upgrade. I love these trucks and engines for what they are. A tractor with turn signals and license plates that I get the pleasure of driving on the street. I service mine and treat it just like I would any piece of equipment that I need to rely upon. With the utmost respect for longevity of parts always in mind.

The aftermarket gauze type filters that I have seen appear to collapse just like the AFE filters did on my compound turbo setup. After dealing directly with these companies I don't believe any of the aftermarket filters flow real world numbers anywhere near what they claim. If they do then the manufacturers need to beef up the designs internally so that they stop collapsing in on themselves.

In my opinion a completely different canister, either under the hood or fender mounted, is the way to go. I just haven't found one that I personally feel fits the application correctly and gives what I'm looking for in flow just yet.

Richard

 

[topo]

I liked when the older trucks I drove had shutters that the driver control with a direct drive fan it pulls all the time the shutters worked good to block what the fan was pulling and keep the engine temperature up to 190 or 200 and getting plenty of cool or cold air it helps make power .

I would like to add shutters to my M52A2 the thermostat is 180 but with the engine not working the temperature will fall to 160 .

 

[patracy]

Enough with the personal attacks with each other. Next one gets a point.

That said. The LDT only makes 134hp. A good rule of thumb is 2.2 CFM per HP. So the stock filter can support ~186hp.

 

[John S-B]

Enough with the personal attacks with each other. Next one gets a point.

That said. The LDT only makes 134hp. A good rule of thumb is 2.2 CFM per HP. So the stock filter can support ~186hp.

Does an air intake increase affect torque as well as HP??