Is it safer to wear seatbelts, or not?

charlesmann

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my dad survived a rollover in an r model mack hauling a load of lime in a dry bulk tanker, just after i was born. the cab was crushed on the driver's, down to the steering wheel, and a bit further, bc it bent the column down and had him pinched between the seat, column and the brake peddle. he managed to free himself, crawl out of the rear window and only suffered a broken neck, that he was unaware of. he drove to the hospital, went n to get checked out, dr said his neck was broke and he would never walk agin. i got out of bed, dressed himself, drove from east tx, to shreveport, la to the va hospital and they repaired his neck. he died 40 yrs late. edit: he was not wearing his seatbelt, which is how he ended up on the floorboard

my step brother just lost his son to a drunk driving accident, where his son was restrained by his belt, but drowned bc he was knocked unconscious and couldn't get out of his car.

a guy i went to school with was burned alive due to similar circumstances as mu step-brother's son.

i wear my belt bc i hate listening to the dang buzzer and iv gotten accustomed to wearing 1, its sec nature, unless I'm in a mv, or I'm driving over a long bridge, like the ms river bridge or ponchatrane
 

obijohn

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I'll say something that will likely make me unpopular, but here goes... if you don't wear your seatbelt while driving on the road you are either woefully ignorant or an idiot. Let's say you get in a wreck that flips the vehicle. Do you think you're going to be able to evaluate what's happening, resist inertia, make the correct decision, and position yourself so you aren't crushed and then hold that position while the vehicle rolls? You're fooling yourself. What about the more common scenario... let's say you're going 25 mph (or around 40 ft/sec) and some idiot pulls out in front of you and you t-bone him. Do you think you can hold yourself off of the steering wheel or prevent yourself from flying into the windshield? Again, you're fooling yourself. I was in a substantially identical wreck in the mid-1980s and foolishly decided about a minute before it happened that because I was driving a short distance I didn't need my seatbelt. I spent a week in the hospital, bruised my chest, left a patch of hair and scalp in the windshield, was VERY lucky I didn't lose my front teeth on the steering wheel or break my neck, injured my arm (I had enough sense to put my thumbs on the outside of the wheel along with my fingers and tried to push off the wheel with bent elbows), and hit a protruding piece of metal under the dash with my right knee ending up chipping the femur from inside the knee joint. Couldn't walk for a couple of months.

Wear your seatbelts... please. Do it for yourself, your family, the people who depend on you. You don't want to go through what I went through, not knowing if I'd ever walk right again, and getting goosebumps realizing how lucky I was to still have my teeth. I was an idiot. Learn from my mistake.
 

Robo McDuff

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To summarize: seatbelts, certainly the modern three-point ones which extra tighten on impact, do save from injuries and death in 99% of the cases. However, there are freak situations where the seat belt may actually hinder your escape and maybe even result in your death while not wearing one would have saved you.

Looking for the safest option. By not wearing them you have a one in 100 chance that this decision will save your live. In all the 99 other options, if you are lucky your family will be wiping your behind for the rest of your live because you cannot do it yourself anymore. More likely, you'll be dead.

And in that few % were not wearing one might save you; quite a lot of those situations it really does not matter one way or the other, the impact is just too big.

Again, this month, three young kids from our area stupidly lost their live on the road we use often. Driving like crazy (like 80 mph in a 30 mph turn), loosing control in a hilltop corner, and smashing the car into two trees at once. Car was totally smashed, these kids inside also. Did not matter if they had belts or not, there were no windows left to be thrown out through.

About the jeep movie, nice one. Did you notice that the driver stayed in the jeep behind the wheel virtually till it was upside down? He was not thrown out, but was extremely lucky and crawled out from under.
 

charlesmann

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I can not move the plane or take off unless I explain seatbelt restraints ,what could happen and how to get out. It is not legal to NOT explain..
yep, i can attest to seatbelt on several occasions where i wouldn't have gotten injured. just last sat, we were ferrying from 1 location to another. i was walking back to check the maint panel prior to landing and we hit enough turbulence to lift me off my feet and then send me to the cabin floor, scraping my side, from hip to armpit on our bambi bucket coffin.
same went for last yr ferrying over the mountains in oregon and hit turbulence when was getting a drink out of the cooler for a pilot. i went weightless, cam down and smacked my face on the cooler, bloodying my face. another incident last yr, we got hit with what we think was a microburst and it rolled the acft enough, that if the cabin door hadn't been closed, i would have fallen out form 500' agl.
i even saw a soldier and heard of it many times, falling out the cargo hook/rescue hatch while hooking up a sling load. in the military though, we had harnesses and had to tie off to the floor tie down rings to prevent falling to the ground.
all sorts of things can happen unexpected on the ground or in the air.
 

frank8003

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yep, i can attest to seatbelt on several occasions where i wouldn't have gotten injured. just last sat, we were ferrying from 1 location to another. i was walking back to check the maint panel prior to landing and we hit enough turbulence to lift me off my feet and then send me to the cabin floor, scraping my side, from hip to armpit on our bambi bucket coffin.
same went for last yr ferrying over the mountains in oregon and hit turbulence when was getting a drink out of the cooler for a pilot. i went weightless, cam down and smacked my face on the cooler, bloodying my face. another incident last yr, we got hit with what we think was a microburst and it rolled the acft enough, that if the cabin door hadn't been closed, i would have fallen out form 500' agl.
i even saw a soldier and heard of it many times, falling out the cargo hook/rescue hatch while hooking up a sling load. in the military though, we had harnesses and had to tie off to the floor tie down rings to prevent falling to the ground.
all sorts of things can happen unexpected on the ground or in the air.
Always wear supplied PPE
 

frank8003

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There was a brief time when the automobile wouldn't even start unless seatbelts were joined.....

I had to teach people to NOT wear gloves when grinding/grinding wheel.
If one make a mistake then gloves don't rip away, machine just sucks you in.
Can easily get sucked into lathes and any rotating things also.

There is many different ways to research and wear PPE.
It is your body and Your five senses, Do what You want.
Except You can not fly without compliance to regulations.

One time in land of crystal clarity I wrote this to the corporate head of safety


risk is identifying known hazards
and chance is the probability that the hazard may be realized


My problem has always been something harming me that I didn't even think about or measure.

Wedding cake comes to mind.
 
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charlesmann

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Except You can not fly without compliance to regulations.
not true. in this particular topic of restraint devises, if safety restraints prevent a crew member from doing their assigned duties, they don't have to wear the restraint device, which is the exception to the rule/reg. its in part 91, which is why i said thank goodness for part 91. in addition to other exceptions, or broad leeway in interpretation to the regs. which is also what the fsdo is for, to further clarify/interpret the regs. and 3 different people at a fsdo may interpret the regs a little different than each other, and 1 fsdo can't differ from slightly another.
 

Robo McDuff

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risk is identifying known hazards
and chance is the probability that the hazard may be realized
Try explaining that to adolescent males in a group trying to proof that they are cool.

Problem is, with too much peer pressure (and/or too much alcohol) they ignore known hazards and doing their best to help ensure the hazard will take place.

Safety googles when working with angle grinders comes to mind, already brought a few apprentice blacksmiths to the first aid.
 

frank8003

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Try explaining that to adolescent males in a group trying to proof that they are cool.

Problem is, with too much peer pressure (and/or too much alcohol) they ignore known hazards and doing their best to help ensure the hazard will take place.

Safety googles when working with angle grinders comes to mind, already brought a few apprentice blacksmiths to the first aid.
Try teaching to never push on a wrench, always pull.
See where that gets you
 

charlesmann

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Try teaching to never push on a wrench, always pull.
See where that gets you
of cut away from your body. i was told many yrs ago, cut towards your buddy, not your body. unless your fingers are in front of the blade, which mine end up a good bit of time, and my hand takes a beating from edged objects
 

Mullaney

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Try explaining that to adolescent males in a group trying to proof that they are cool.

Problem is, with too much peer pressure (and/or too much alcohol) they ignore known hazards and doing their best to help ensure the hazard will take place.

Safety googles when working with angle grinders comes to mind, already brought a few apprentice blacksmiths to the first aid.
I think that may be where the saying "Hey Y'all, Watch This" came from. It is amazing how "the new guy" in a shop just has never been in the situation before - and so stupid stuff can (and will) happen. It is pretty important for those with experience speak up!

We all need to apply as much peer pressure we can to keep others around us safe...

.
 

HDN

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I just accept that I like driving death traps. I feel safer in a wreck with my deuce than if I were driving my dad's WW2 jeep, but I know it's game over if any of the old trucks I'm driving roll over.

I like wearing seat belts to keep my butt from moving around in the seat when I'm working the controls, plus it's the law in NY state and it keeps me from getting a ticket in case I get pulled over. That being said, I work very hard to avoid ever having the seat belt do its safety-related part of the job by doing these things:

  • Never exceed 45 MPH in anything bigger than a HMMWV
  • Keep at least four seconds of stopping distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you, and watch the brake lights of the vehicles in front of the vehicle in front of you (the bigger the truck you're driving, the more seconds you should count)
  • Don't try to avoid animal collisions by using only the steering wheel (I try to avoid using the steering wheel at all in those situations)
  • Don't try to avoid someone who cuts you off by using only the steering wheel. If they get hit, good! They deserve it for their dumb maneuver and hope that first reponders see it that way too.
  • Have good tires on the steering axle(s) (that is, no dry rot or anything that'll make it more likely for those tires to blow and cause an out-of-control situation)

I think it's also worth mentioning that the MVPA judges at conventions won't score against safety equipment retrofitted into vehicles that didn't originally have it.
 

John S-B

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I just accept that I like driving death traps. I feel safer in a wreck with my deuce than if I were driving my dad's WW2 jeep, but I know it's game over if any of the old trucks I'm driving roll over.

I like wearing seat belts to keep my butt from moving around in the seat when I'm working the controls, plus it's the law in NY state and it keeps me from getting a ticket in case I get pulled over. That being said, I work very hard to avoid ever having the seat belt do its safety-related part of the job by doing these things:

  • Never exceed 45 MPH in anything bigger than a HMMWV
  • Keep at least four seconds of stopping distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you, and watch the brake lights of the vehicles in front of the vehicle in front of you (the bigger the truck you're driving, the more seconds you should count)
  • Don't try to avoid animal collisions by using only the steering wheel (I try to avoid using the steering wheel at all in those situations)
  • Don't try to avoid someone who cuts you off by using only the steering wheel. If they get hit, good! They deserve it for their dumb maneuver and hope that first reponders see it that way too.
  • Have good tires on the steering axle(s) (that is, no dry rot or anything that'll make it more likely for those tires to blow and cause an out-of-control situation)

I think it's also worth mentioning that the MVPA judges at conventions won't score against safety equipment retrofitted into vehicles that didn't originally have it.
As for rule #1, that depends on the vehicle, the road, and the conditions. Many vehicles bigger than a HMMWV are DESIGNED to go faster than 45 mph, and in some places, it's dangerous to go that slow, ie, the interstate.
 

HDN

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As for rule #1, that depends on the vehicle, the road, and the conditions. Many vehicles bigger than a HMMWV are DESIGNED to go faster than 45 mph, and in some places, it's dangerous to go that slow, ie, the interstate.
Totally true. IIRC the HEMTTs can do 70 MPH all day long, and I'd probably take a HMMWV up to 55 if I had one despite how scary some folks here say it is. I'm just used to driving older, slower stuff. That being said, I usually don't have a reason to take any of my trucks on the interstate highways where the slower speeds are nothing but a burden for regular traffic.
 
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