Issues with SF-97

[StainlessSteel]

If the contract requires that you auction off a minimum of the inventory you are provided then the government should also provide the necessary forms to complete the sale. I think it's awful the position that they have put GovPlanet in. Clearly not GP's fault.


1985 HMMWV M998

 

[FloridaAKM]

I applied for my 3rd EUC today, auction was over yesterday, EUC was accepted also today & we shall see how long this takes. 8 to 12 weeks is the average timeframe. I'm guessing 6 weeks!

 

[DrOfData]

So my M998 is going to be picked up tomorrow & delivered either Sat. or Sunday. Now, if I only felt more comfortable with coordinating between GovPlanet & my transporter company (Montway). It's really more on Montway's, but still. The anxiety is worse than when I bought my 1st house in the early 80's!

 

[Rmtaunton]

At same time .......


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[DCIV]

I applied for my 3rd EUC today, auction was over yesterday, EUC was accepted also today & we shall see how long this takes. 8 to 12 weeks is the average timeframe. I'm guessing 6 weeks!

I am at 8 weeks, hope you only have to wait 6!

So my M998 is going to be picked up tomorrow & delivered either Sat. or Sunday. Now, if I only felt more comfortable with coordinating between GovPlanet & my transporter company (Montway). It's really more on Montway's, but still. The anxiety is worse than when I bought my 1st house in the early 80's!

So for someone who hopefully has to set that up Tuesday, how did you set it up, what did you have to give them, how did you pay them, any restriction on where they can leave it?

 

[gottaluvit]

I applied for my 3rd EUC today, auction was over yesterday, EUC was accepted also today & we shall see how long this takes. 8 to 12 weeks is the average timeframe. I'm guessing 6 weeks!

I'm guessing three weeks.

 

[DrOfData]

I booked the pickup through Montway. I sent them my release form & sent the pickup confirmation to GovPlanet. YMMV

 

[cucvmule]

900743 I wonder if Iron Planet could just print up the necessary documents for the supplier of the forms? With that kind of authorization the sales of equipment would have the paperwork at time of sale.

I am sure that the Deep State has a firm grip on the documents.

 

[suzukovich]

I agree with you 100%, unfortunately the government contract is not structured that way. We are required to auction off a minimum percentage of items that are delivered to us via the DLA. We do not have the authority or ability to reduce that number.

Well I just left my DMV today will not license my Humvee without SF97. Bill of sale will not fly either with email from DLA and statements on my invoice. I plan to call Tallassee Monday trying to get this resolved but will tell you that as far as the DMV rep I was dealing with said he was turning copies of my paperwork and giving it to the Attorney Generals Office with the recommendation that GovPlanet be prosecuted for violating Florida Law on selling vehicles without proper documents. I can also tell you that this guy and others have an axe to grind and are just looking for a way to shut GovPlanet down. Since you collected Florida and Hillsborough county taxes they will have jurisdiction.

Personally I paid over 11000 dollars for a vehicle I can not get plates for with the potential of not seeing a SF97 until at least January. That in itself will cause me legal issues with my HOA. So I don't know what your position at GovPlanet is but I will tell you this needs to be fixed now. Or I will be demanding financial compensation. I not going to lose my house because of you ineptitude. Yes it's been a long week for me and I am pretty pissed.

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[Al Capone]

When you buy these vehicles , and finally released do they give you a bill
of sale at least then ?

 

[suzukovich]

What I did find out is paid invoice is not legal document of ownership. Bill of sale is and that also was needed with SF97 to get title and plates.. With out bill of sale you can not legaly prove ownership.

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[suzukovich]

When you buy these vehicles , and finally released do they give you a bill
of sale at least then ?

When you pay for the vehicle you are given a choice. Bill of sale or SF97. I needed to have both.

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[Al Capone]

So they don't want to give you both ? That's crazy

 

[suzukovich]

Yep, pay fee for Bill of sale or SF97 no option for both. Sad part is that when they get the paper to print the SF97s. The dealers will get them first. I really sure if they pulled this crap with third other auction site they would be out of business. Let alone a half a dozen state attorney generals going after them and form the conversation I had today it looks like Florida Attorney General is about to.

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[DCIV]

Anyone else hoping tomorrow is the day? If anyone gets approved post up!

 

[StainlessSteel]

Well I just left my DMV today will not license my Humvee without SF97. Bill of sale will not fly either with email from DLA and statements on my invoice. I plan to call Tallassee Monday trying to get this resolved but will tell you that as far as the DMV rep I was dealing with said he was turning copies of my paperwork and giving it to the Attorney Generals Office with the recommendation that GovPlanet be prosecuted for violating Florida Law on selling vehicles without proper documents. I can also tell you that this guy and others have an axe to grind and are just looking for a way to shut GovPlanet down. Since you collected Florida and Hillsborough county taxes they will have jurisdiction.

Personally I paid over 11000 dollars for a vehicle I can not get plates for with the potential of not seeing a SF97 until at least January. That in itself will cause me legal issues with my HOA. So I don't know what your position at GovPlanet is but I will tell you this needs to be fixed now. Or I will be demanding financial compensation. I not going to lose my house because of you ineptitude. Yes it's been a long week for me and I am pretty pissed.

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Where are you getting the January timeframe to get an SF-97? Is that from GovPlanet? Freaking out a little, because I've been waiting since April. I am going to have issues with my HOA/state as well if it really will be 2018 before a SF-97 is seen.


1985 HMMWV M998

 

[Chief_919]

Well I just left my DMV today will not license my Humvee without SF97. Bill of sale will not fly either with email from DLA and statements on my invoice. I plan to call Tallassee Monday trying to get this resolved but will tell you that as far as the DMV rep I was dealing with said he was turning copies of my paperwork and giving it to the Attorney Generals Office with the recommendation that GovPlanet be prosecuted for violating Florida Law on selling vehicles without proper documents. I can also tell you that this guy and others have an axe to grind and are just looking for a way to shut GovPlanet down. Since you collected Florida and Hillsborough county taxes they will have jurisdiction.

Personally I paid over 11000 dollars for a vehicle I can not get plates for with the potential of not seeing a SF97 until at least January. That in itself will cause me legal issues with my HOA. So I don't know what your position at GovPlanet is but I will tell you this needs to be fixed now. Or I will be demanding financial compensation. I not going to lose my house because of you ineptitude. Yes it's been a long week for me and I am pretty pissed.

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This problem will bring some pretty big problems for people in many states.

Lets look at the potential problems this is causing in NC. You can find the total list of all applicable laws here: https://connect.ncdot.gov/business/dmv/dmv documents/nc title manual.pdf

and here: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0020

First, it is of questionable legality to transfer ownership of a vehicle without a valid title, CoO or SF-97 to give to the person at the time of sale. NC law requires that it be provided at time of sale:

§ 20-72. Transfer by owner
......
Any person transferring title or interest in a motor vehicle shall deliver the certificate oftitle duly assigned in accordance with the foregoing provision to the transferee at the time ofdelivering the vehicle, except that where a security interest is obtained in the motor vehiclefrom the transferee in payment of the purchase price or otherwise, the transferor shall deliverthe certificate of title to the lienholder and the lienholder shall forward the certificate of titletogether with the transferee's application for new title and necessary fees to the Division within20 days. Any person who delivers or accepts a certificate of title assigned in blank shall beguilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

So it looks like the SOP even when thing are running "smooth" is likely not legal in NC

But the buyers are being pushed into violating the law because of the paperwork shortage:

§ 20-73. New owner must get new certificate of title.(a) Time Limit. - A person to whom a vehicle is transferred, whether by purchase or otherwise, must apply to the Division for a new certificate of title. An application for a certificate of title must be submitted within 28 days after the vehicle is transferred. A person who must follow the procedure in G.S. 20-76 to get a certificate of title and who applies for a title within the required 20-day time limit is considered to have complied with this section even when the Division issues a certificate of title to the person after the time limit has elapsed.A person may apply directly for a certificate of title or may allow another person, such as the person from whom the vehicle is transferred or a person who has a lien on the vehicle, to apply for a certificate of title on that person's behalf. A person to whom a vehicle is transferred is responsible for getting a certificate of title within the time limit regardless of whether the person allowed another to apply for a certificate of title on the person's behalf.(b) Exceptions. - This section does not apply to any of the following1) A dealer or an insurance company to whom a vehicle is transferred when the transfer meets the requirements of G.S. 20-75.(2) A State agency that assists the United States Department of Defense with purchasing, transferring, or titling a vehicle to another State agency, a unit of local government, a volunteer fire department, or a volunteer rescue squad.(c) Penalties. - A person to whom a vehicle is transferred who fails to apply for a certificate of title within the required time is subject to a civil penalty of twenty dollars ($20.00) and is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. A person who undertakes to apply for a certificate of title on behalf of another person and who fails to apply for a title within the required time is subject to a civil penalty of twenty dollars ($20.00). When a person to whom a vehicle is transferred fails to obtain a title within the required time because a person who undertook to apply for the certificate of title did not do so within the required time, the Division may impose a civil penalty only on the person who undertook to apply for the title. Civil penalties collected under this subsection shall be credited to the Highway Fund. (1937, c. 407, s. 37; 1939, c. 275; 1947, c. 219, s. 6; 1961, c. 360, s. 9; 1975, c. 716, s. 5; 1991, c. 689, s. 332; 1993, c. 539, s. 339; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2005-276, s. 44.1(j); 2009-81, s. 1; 2009-550, s. 2(b); 2015-241, s. 29.30(i).)

It is literally a crime you can be convicted of to not get a title within 28 days.

This mess is actually putting buyers in a position of committing a crime, a relatively minor one but still a crime that goes on a criminal record, because they are not being provided the documents legally required to be provided them. And the state doesn't care one bit that the feds are not giving you paperwork or that they require you to sell items at a certain speed, so by offering for sale and delivering vehicles in NC without any idea when you will be able to provide the proper paperwork you are screwing customers.

And you can't just say the sale date was later:

§ 20-74. Penalty for making false statement about transfer of vehicle.A dealer or another person who, in an application required by this Division, knowinglymakes a false statement about the date a vehicle was sold or acquired shall be guilty of a Class3 misdemeanor. (1937, c. 407, s. 38; 1939, c. 275; 1961, c. 360, s. 10; 1975, c. 716, s. 5; 1979,c. 801, s. 8; 1981, c. 690, s. 21; 1991, c. 689, s. 333; 1993, c. 539, s. 340; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24,s. 14(c).)

Because that is a crime. In fact if you are dating SF-97's at date of signature that is likely not legal for sales in NC.... and if your telling buyers in NC to use this date as the date of sale you are probably telling them to commit a class 3 misdemeanor.

Its a very convoluted mess- by state law in NC until you have the title, CoO or SF-97 transferred to you you are not the legal owner of a motor vehicle. So essentially by selling vehicles, taking money and transferring possession without providing the paperwork legally required by the state to be provided for any vehicle sold in the state they are making a huge legal mess. if its GP's stance that ownership is transferred on delivery they are failing to comply with NC law and not providing the legally required documents. If they follow what NC law says then even after your truck is paid for and taken home your not the legal owner and can't do anything with it...

Of course if this mess makes the NC DMV inspectors start really looking hard at GP they may start asking why they are not a licensed auto dealer.

 

[StainlessSteel]

This problem will bring some pretty big problems for people in many states.

Lets look at the potential problems this is causing in NC. You can find the total list of all applicable laws here: https://connect.ncdot.gov/business/dmv/dmv documents/nc title manual.pdf

and here: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0020

First, it is of questionable legality to transfer ownership of a vehicle without a valid title, CoO or SF-97 to give to the person at the time of sale. NC law requires that it be provided at time of sale:


So it looks like the SOP even when thing are running "smooth" is likely not legal in NC

But the buyers are being pushed into violating the law because of the paperwork shortage:


It is literally a crime you can be convicted of to not get a title within 28 days.

This mess is actually putting buyers in a position of committing a crime, a relatively minor one but still a crime that goes on a criminal record, because they are not being provided the documents legally required to be provided them. And the state doesn't care one bit that the feds are not giving you paperwork or that they require you to sell items at a certain speed, so by offering for sale and delivering vehicles in NC without any idea when you will be able to provide the proper paperwork you are screwing customers.

And you can't just say the sale date was later:



Because that is a crime. In fact if you are dating SF-97's at date of signature that is likely not legal for sales in NC.... and if your telling buyers in NC to use this date as the date of sale you are probably telling them to commit a class 3 misdemeanor.

Its a very convoluted mess- by state law in NC until you have the title, CoO or SF-97 transferred to you you are not the legal owner of a motor vehicle. So essentially by selling vehicles, taking money and transferring possession without providing the paperwork legally required by the state to be provided for any vehicle sold in the state they are making a huge legal mess. if its GP's stance that ownership is transferred on delivery they are failing to comply with NC law and not providing the legally required documents. If they follow what NC law says then even after your truck is paid for and taken home your not the legal owner and can't do anything with it...

Of course if this mess makes the NC DMV inspectors start really looking hard at GP they may start asking why they are not a licensed auto dealer.

I am in NC, and this is exactly the DISASTER I am talking about. I am worried because I have a state senator connected to the street where I live. This is a powder keg waiting to blow.


1985 HMMWV M998

 

[Chief_919]

The majority of the DMVs will utilize the date on the SF97 and/or the reassignment letter to start their clock. There have been several instances where customers have requested an SF97 months, sometimes years after the sale and have not had an issue with the 45 day time frame most DMVs utilize to determine "Late" titling. I am not going to pull the trigger on even more paperwork, which would slow the process down even more getting these out as quick as I can when only a few people may need one. The letter will have to be personalized for each item to include the make model and serial number/VIN...Most DMVs would laugh at a simple form letter.

I said it above but it bears repeating in its own post since the GP rep is giving this out as how to operate- if you are dating SF-97's other than the date of actual sale and representing that as the sale date that is a crime in NC, a class III misdemeanor, and using an SF-97 with a date later than the sale and claiming its the sale date on a title application is the same crime.

§ 20-74. Penalty for making false statement about transfer of vehicle. A dealer or another person who, in an application required by this Division, knowingly makes a false statement about the date a vehicle was sold or acquired shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. (1937, c. 407, s. 38; 1939, c. 275; 1961, c. 360, s. 10; 1975, c. 716, s. 5; 1979,c. 801, s. 8; 1981, c. 690, s. 21; 1991, c. 689, s. 333; 1993, c. 539, s. 340; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24,s. 14(c).)

Its technically punishable by up to 20 days in jail and a $200 fine- per offense.

I wouldn't be advising people to use that date as the sale date because you in some cases, depending on what state they are in, you are literally advising them to commit a crime by saying what you did above. I imagine many other states are similar.

Yes, you probably can lie to the DMV and tell them that is the sale date and get away with it- but its a crime to do so. And you shouldn't be putting your customers in the position of having to commit a crime to title a vehicle they get from you. But since its also a crime to not get a vehicle titled within 28 days of purchase you are pretty much not giving them any option other than to pick what law to violate.....

 

[DCIV]

I was out of the office last week and trying to dig out of the hole that has left me in. If you PM'd me and I haven't responded, I promise I will attempt to answer all of them by end of day today.

Here is this week's EUC Update:

7/5 and later: 16
7/11 Group : 97
7/18 Group: 52
7/25 Group: 91

TSC cleared a total of 115 this week, so if they keep on the same pace, 7/11 should be knocked out next week and a portion of 7/18 should make it through as well.

As far as the SF97 update, we are still in a holding pattern. DLA is beating up GSA in regards to all of their requests, not just the ones that are coming to GP. This is a federal wide issue with the GSA vendor. I do have my team positioned to surge as soon as the forms come in, and I will continue to apologize for the holdup, but this one is truly out of our hands and scope. Congrats to everyone who gets approved today.

Still didn't get any news, curious about this weeks numbers.