It followed me home. Honest...

[DUUANE]

It doesnt look like Teddy is having a fun ride tho...he can sing the high harmonies to " on the road again" when its time.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Your M207 would like to identify as an M211 lol? I think the reason we say the M207 CDN is more rare than the M211 CDN is only because we haven't seen many M207's remaining. The 207 were cab and chassis / dual, so likely more versatile in the after market auction houses of Crown Assets. We know the 207 carried shelters similar to the American M220. They could have been beat to death or just good keepers we're just seeing leak out now.

Interestingly enough, It does appear that production lines produced multiple models at the same time. By 1954, M211 CDN production numbers were just slightly higher than M207 at 109.3 trucks per month and 3,170 M211 units being produced by 11-6-54.

You do have another mystery we should or maybe shouldn't talk about. If this is a secret location for an engine kill switch we won't say anything but it's in an odd spot. Once you get around to electrical you'll find out what this is hiding down here. It's a weird spot for a heater switch too so something's up with that.

 

[DUUANE]

Heres a clear pic of the drivers windshield frame.

 

[DUUANE]

Your M207 would like to identify as an M211 lol? I think the reason we say the M207 CDN is more rare than the M211 CDN is only because we haven't seen many M207's remaining. The 207 were cab and chassis / dual, so likely more versatile in the after market auction houses of Crown Assets. We know the 207 carried shelters similar to the American M220. They could have been beat to death or just good keepers we're just seeing leak out now.

Interestingly enough, It does appear that production lines produced multiple models at the same time. By 1954, M211 CDN production numbers were just slightly higher than M207 at 109.3 trucks per month and 3,170 M211 units being produced by 11-6-54.

You do have another mystery we should or maybe shouldn't talk about. If this is a secret location for an engine kill switch we won't say anything but it's in an odd spot. Once you get around to electrical you'll find out what this is hiding down here. It's a weird spot for a heater switch too so something's up with that.

View attachment 937474

It must be top secret..i cant see it in my pics..now i have to go look

 

[m1010plowboy]

The frame number and the first four digits are most certainly 1207 and you're sitting on some history....slide bar hood and all. That bell says communication shack, Kratz, Light A-A anti-aircraft truck, or maybe the dentist. Most pics compliments from DM and the boys at CMV.



We can just see the button on the back wall in this truck which was M207 with blackout curtain mods, likely an A-A truck and not a Gin Palace. Apparently Service Members have been known to call these trucks the Gin Palace.



Fortunately the M207 Pole trucks don't appear to have a bell. These units must have worked the most and carried the heaviest loads. The bell was likely part of the 'Shop Van' installation and the two we've seen were from the 303 Workshop in Quebec.



From left to right that's CDN M207, M211 and the sassy M135. Can't blame folks for thinking the M207 is an M220 or M211 with the box off. The secret is in that frame number.

 

[DUUANE]

Ok switch found. It is in a strange place... It looks similar to the other switches that were added at some point, light duty with small wires. Either a coil disconnect or heater motor is my guess at this point. Ill dig more when its less drippy.

 

[DUUANE]

The frame number and the first four digits are most certainly 1207 and you're sitting on some history....slide bar hood and all. That bell says communication shack, Kratz, Light A-A anti-aircraft truck, or maybe the dentist. Most pics compliments from DM and the boys at CMV.

View attachment 937476View attachment 937480View attachment 937481View attachment 937477View attachment 937478

We can just see the button on the back wall in this truck which was M207 with blackout curtain mods, likely an A-A truck and not a Gin Palace. Apparently Service Members have been known to call these trucks the Gin Palace.

View attachment 937483

Fortunately the M207 Pole trucks don't appear to have a bell. These units must have worked the most and carried the heaviest loads. The bell was likely part of the 'Shop Van' installation and the two we've seen were from the 303 Workshop in Quebec.

View attachment 937482

From left to right that's CDN M207, M211 and the sassy M135. Can't blame folks for thinking the M207 is an M220 or M211 with the box off. The secret is in that frame number.

View attachment 937479

Thats awesome thanks for the education!
The only complete M207 van ive seen in the wild was on 32nd ave in Surrey about 10 years ago.
It's too bad the van body is gone. It'd be cool to know if it was Dr. Pain's fang snapper road show.
The engine seems pretty stuck, as does the compressor. That said i havnt had wrenches on them yet. No milkshake on the dipstick and the level isnt off the scale.
Its supposed to stop raining tomorrow so maybe i can pull a couple of plugs and get at it a bit.

 

[DUUANE]

The frame number and the first four digits are most certainly 1207 and you're sitting on some history....slide bar hood and all. That bell says communication shack, Kratz, Light A-A anti-aircraft truck, or maybe the dentist. Most pics compliments from DM and the boys at CMV.

View attachment 937476View attachment 937480View attachment 937481View attachment 937477View attachment 937478

We can just see the button on the back wall in this truck which was M207 with blackout curtain mods, likely an A-A truck and not a Gin Palace. Apparently Service Members have been known to call these trucks the Gin Palace.

View attachment 937483

Fortunately the M207 Pole trucks don't appear to have a bell. These units must have worked the most and carried the heaviest loads. The bell was likely part of the 'Shop Van' installation and the two we've seen were from the 303 Workshop in Quebec.

View attachment 937482

From left to right that's CDN M207, M211 and the sassy M135. Can't blame folks for thinking the M207 is an M220 or M211 with the box off. The secret is in that frame number.

View attachment 937479

My truck has an angle iron rectangular frame welded to the bumper in the same location as the 207dent pic

 

[DUUANE]

Ok so in looking for wheel cylinders i came across these. The 15306 is the 1 3/8" bore from the parts list. The 15307 is a 1 1/2" bore unit from the big book of raybestos.
Externally it apprears identical. The only difference is the pushrod length looks like the 15307 shipped with ones that are about 1/4" longer and no copper washers( thanks raybestos/china).
My question is,
How much effect is there going from 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 on braking performance/sensitivity and driveabillity?
I have a system mod in mine for my trucks so ill be able to compensate for the extra volume/pedal travel.
My thinking is that a person could run them at 1.5". Then if they experience issues it would be relatively easy to sleeve them back to 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 without boring.

What are your thoughts?

 

[m1010plowboy]

So far we're finding the CDN trucks had upgrades from factory and 1 3/8" wheel cylinder was standard. I say 'so far' because we never say never and might find 1 1/4" in a CDN truck one day. It appears, most likely, possibly, many American G749 threads report 1 1/4" wheel cylinders so it could be, in general, its a CDN thing.



The master cylinder kits and repair kits for the wheel cylinders were available not long ago so there's hope.



There are engine parts and take-out boxes on the prairies if that 302 is being stubborn.

 

[rustystud]

Ok so in looking for wheel cylinders i came across these. The 15306 is the 1 3/8" bore from the parts list. The 15307 is a 1 1/2" bore unit from the big book of raybestos.
Externally it apprears identical. The only difference is the pushrod length looks like the 15307 shipped with ones that are about 1/4" longer and no copper washers( thanks raybestos/china).
My question is,
How much effect is there going from 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 on braking performance/sensitivity and driveabillity?
I have a system mod in mine for my trucks so ill be able to compensate for the extra volume/pedal travel.
My thinking is that a person could run them at 1.5". Then if they experience issues it would be relatively easy to sleeve them back to 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 without boring.

What are your thoughts?

Going to a larger internal bore size will give you more braking power. It will also use more fluid and will require a larger master cylinder. Besides that, I believe it is a good modification. On the later M35 deuces many have converted to a larger wheel cylinder and have no problems. I planned to do this to my Deuce when I do my next brake job.

 

[USMC 00-08]

My question is,
How much effect is there going from 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 on braking performance/sensitivity and driveabillity?

I have driven an M135 with the 1 1/4 bore cylinders and an M211 with the 1 3/8 Canadian upgrade. Both worked very well with stock master cylinder and I honestly couldn't tell a lot of difference. I drove the M211 that had the 1 3/8 wheel cylinders from Big Timber, MT to Bozeman and back, as well as in a parade and there were no issues at all.

Both of these trucks also had the airpak rebuilt with the 5 ton kit and "power piston" as shown in the airpak rebuild sticky. I'm not sure if that affected anything to where I couldn't tell a difference between the two kinds of wheel cylinders.

So far we're finding the CDN trucks had upgrades from factory and 1 3/8" wheel cylinder was standard. I say 'so far' because we never say never and might find 1 1/4" in a CDN truck one day. It appears, most likely, possibly, many American G749 threads report 1 1/4" wheel cylinders so it could be, in general, its a CDN thing.

This is also my understanding and the reason we put the 15306 part number in the parts list.

 

[rustystud]

I have driven an M135 with the 1 1/4 bore cylinders and an M211 with the 1 3/8 Canadian upgrade. Both worked very well with stock master cylinder and I honestly couldn't tell a lot of difference. I drove the M211 that had the 1 3/8 wheel cylinders from Big Timber, MT to Bozeman and back, as well as in a parade and there were no issues at all.

Both of these trucks also had the airpak rebuilt with the 5 ton kit and "power piston" as shown in the airpak rebuild sticky. I'm not sure if that affected anything to where I couldn't tell a difference between the two kinds of wheel cylinders.

View attachment 937496View attachment 937497View attachment 937498



This is also my understanding and the reason we put the 15306 part number in the parts list.

I thought you said you where going to use a 1-1/2" wheel cylinder. On six wheels that is quite a bit more fluid.

 

[DUUANE]

I thought you said you where going to use a 1-1/2" wheel cylinder. On six wheels that is quite a bit more fluid.

Yes the 15307 is a 1 1/2" bore. I know they will require more volume. My question was about the change in dynamic braking effect. Ive read that the 1 3/8 were harder to modulate than the 1 1/4. But i have no first hand experience so i figured id ask the experts.
I want to split the system. Planning on mounting a full air foot valve, and using it to control 1 air brake service chamber for the front axle pushing its own master, and 2 piggy back chambers for the middle and rear axles with their own masters. (Emergency use, not parking on their own). Itll be a lot of work but should be well worth it.

 

[USMC 00-08]

Planning on mounting a full air foot valve, and using it to control 1 air brake service chamber for the front axle pushing its own master, and 2 piggy back chambers for the middle and rear axles with their own masters. (Emergency use, not parking on their own). Itll be a lot of work but should be well worth it.

We want lots of pictures and a "how to" on this!!

 

[rustystud]

Yes the 15307 is a 1 1/2" bore. I know they will require more volume. My question was about the change in dynamic braking effect. Ive read that the 1 3/8 were harder to modulate than the 1 1/4. But i have no first hand experience so i figured id ask the experts.
I want to split the system. Planning on mounting a full air foot valve, and using it to control 1 air brake service chamber for the front axle pushing its own master, and 2 piggy back chambers for the middle and rear axles with their own masters. (Emergency use, not parking on their own). Itll be a lot of work but should be well worth it.

You know you could use the brake master cylinders used in the M105 trailers.

The only problem I see with your idea is the lag time you will have from first applying the foot valve until the brakes are actually applied.
You will also experience different apply times between the three brake master cylinders.
Big rigs (Semi-Trucks) which use air brakes get by this lag time by using small hoses from the foot valve to relay valves which control air tanks placed along the truck. The small hoses allow air to quickly reach the relay valves which in turn use air stored in the air tanks to apply the brakes.

 

[DUUANE]

You know you could use the brake master cylinders used in the M105 trailers.
View attachment 937583View attachment 937584
The only problem I see with your idea is the lag time you will have from first applying the foot valve until the brakes are actually applied.
You will also experience different apply times between the three brake master cylinders.
Big rigs (Semi-Trucks) which use air brakes get by this lag time by using small hoses from the foot valve to relay valves which control air tanks placed along the truck. The small hoses allow air to quickly reach the relay valves which in turn use air stored in the air tanks to apply the brakes.

You bet, A relay valve is part of the puzzle.
There will be more air volume required so an extra or upsized dry air tank.
This may require a different pulley for the compressor to reduce air up time to comply with regs.
It will also make hauling a conventional s cam air brake trailer a lot easier.
With a single relay valve and the 3 actuators plumbed in parallel, they can only build pressure together so ballance shouldnt be too much of an issue. They will have the same size service diaphram. Mounting the relay valve as close to the actuators as possible will reduce any lag.
I had an old international V190 with s-cams. It had a foot valve that mounted under the floor. Unfortunately i couldnt get a number off it but it would easily facillitate keeping the stock pedal.
Ill have to see what kind of pedal ratio a modern foot valve operates at and compare to our trucks. That might be the deal breaker for an under the floor pedal.
Either way, i figure it like this.
If i lose all the air or have a valving malfunction the spring brakes will drag the rear axles.
To lose the hydraulics i'd have to tear all 3 axles out of the truck. Ill have more to worry about than lack of braking.
I believe our trucks max brake line pressure is 1950psi or thereabouts. Ill be setting up a test stand to gauge application pessures to set up with the right service chambers to achieve that.
Ill be looking for a rugged master cylinder design, 4 bolt mounting flange. Remote reservoir if possible to keep it up out of the McGoo.
There will be some fireside quiet time with the big book of raybestos...
When i have actual work on this to post up ill start a dedicated thread.

Im currently on the ferry..got called back to work today and monday theres a storm blowing in as we speak so theres a possibillity ill not be able to get back to the family for christmas.
Cross your fingers.

 

[DUUANE]

We want lots of pictures and a "how to" on this!!

Yes Sir!

 

[DUUANE]

You know you could use the brake master cylinders used in the M105 trailers.
View attachment 937583View attachment 937584
The only problem I see with your idea is the lag time you will have from first applying the foot valve until the brakes are actually applied.
You will also experience different apply times between the three brake master cylinders.
Big rigs (Semi-Trucks) which use air brakes get by this lag time by using small hoses from the foot valve to relay valves which control air tanks placed along the truck. The small hoses allow air to quickly reach the relay valves which in turn use air stored in the air tanks to apply the brakes.

Ill look into the M105 units. Thanks thats a great tip. I was thinking of updating to modern S-cam stuff for cost and availabillity. I can buy service chambers in just about any size for under $20 day or night.
I have no experience with the M105's. How far are they down the obsolete list? What do our vendors say about stock?

*****edit***

Underthought that..itll have to be commercial parts due to sevice chamber matching and spring brakes being mandatory for safety/redundancy.

As you were...

 

[DUUANE]

I found this hiding in the interwebs. I didnt see it in the early deuce TM's so if it isn't already there maybe we could add it.