Just because they don't leak and they stop does not mean you are good to go!!!

[scootertrs]

Guys... this is not a soapbox... I am truly, truly concerned

I was bellyaching about the truck not going faster than 44mph... then found that the fuel was real nasty and muddy... replaced all filters and washed out tank... took care of a "non-functioning" tank vent (somebody disconnected the vent at the engine breather and crimped it... ) I guess they were running with fuel cap loose... now... I was up to 51 mph (confirmed)... while doing a photoshoot at my business... brakes locked up... what the heck... I guess they have been dragging for a while and my airpack is bad... well, time to do the entire brake system... when I disassembled the wheel cylinders, I was very surprised... how the truck ran and stopped... was nothing short of a miracle... the rusty and nasty mud that had built up in each and everyone of my brake system elements... looked like chunky peanut butter pudding... and they still worked... Wow!!! Know something else? my shoes look like they are new... obviously a brake job was done shortly before I got her.,..

In other words, just because they work (and they did) and just because they don't leak (they did not) does not mean all is well... my cylinders were so bad that if I honed them out to put kits in them, I would have to use oversize kits... (I might be able to see through the walls and see the pistons operating if I shone a light through it ... metal was so thin) the hoses were all cracked and just waiting to expire... when? I don't know, but when you have a single cylinder master with just one common line, you have to be doubly sure that it is definitely good to go... that little 16,000 pound deuce going 54 mph will definitely become a scary ride if it decides to not stop. And we don't need any more "well meaning" politicians thinking that these vehicles are only meant for the military and unsafe in private ownership. If one of us T-bones a school bus because of brake failure (besides the horrible aftermath of having hurt people unnecessarily) I can guarantee that ownership of our toys/work tools/investments will be that much more difficult.

These trucks are built to withstand the abuse of minimal service in unfriendly territory... that is not our case here... they deserve proper care and I for one am truly embarrassed about the condition of my braking system (a braking system without a backup). She desrves better.

 

[cattlerepairman]

These trucks are built to withstand the abuse of minimal service in unfriendly territory... that is not our case here... they deserve proper care and I for one am truly embarrassed about the condition of my braking system (a braking system without a backup). She desrves better.

Amen to that.
Oftentimes, people use the "rugged military construction" as an explanation that careful-to-anal PM is unnecessary; things will still work without the required maintenance.

The military wants "rugged" in the sense of "will survive the mission, even if abused and not maintained". The military does not care whether you have to throw away the thing after this single mission, because it is now worn beyond economical repair.

 

[Jakob]

Amen to that.
Oftentimes, people use the "rugged military construction" as an explanation that careful-to-anal PM is unnecessary; things will still work without the required maintenance.

The military wants "rugged" in the sense of "will survive the mission, even if abused and not maintained". The military does not care whether you have to throw away the thing after this single mission, because it is now worn beyond economical repair.

The only reason these vehicles got the rugged reputation is from the overly redundant PMs military trucks receive.

 

[M813rc]

Brakes and tires- both must be in good shape or we shouldn't go on the road. We should never risk anyone's life on these items, and with the parts/tires readily available, there is no excuse for doing so.

Apart from the moral obligation (which should be enough), as mentioned by Scooter there are also the risks to our hobby if folks go driving suspect trucks about and getting in collisions. We know the answer will be to try to legislate all the vehicles off the road.

(Okay Rory, step away from the soap box, c'mon lad, slowly now....)

Cheers

 

[scootertrs]

Brakes and tires- both must be in good shape or we shouldn't go on the road. We should never risk anyone's life on these items, and with the parts/tires readily available, there is no excuse for doing so.

Apart from the moral obligation (which should be enough), as mentioned by Scooter there are also the risks to our hobby if folks go driving suspect trucks about and getting in collisions. We know the answer will be to try to legislate all the vehicles off the road.

(Okay Rory, step away from the soap box, c'mon lad, slowly now....)

Cheers

And my main point was that... truck was stopping, not leaking, and not obviously dragging or pulling... most of our typical brake tests are covered by this... on top of that, she had new linings... how was I to know that there was pudding in my lines and cylinders... upon your acquisition getting home, I would not only pull the hubs to inspect the brakes and at least bleed some brake fluid out... preferably inspect the cylinder... see what it looks like... if it does not look clear and purple or other color of virgin dot 5... redtag it and do the job

You will be glad you did!!!

 

[gimpyrobb]

Glad we will have a stainless kit available for them soon!

 

[scootertrs]

got my fingers crossed... know what? almost 30 years ago I had master/slave/brake issues with a db5 aston and parts were unavailble and/or obscenely expensive/// it was not cheap then, but this same guy was able to sleeve the cylinders in stainless.. lets see what he comes up with now.

 

[emr]

like said so many times, when getting a mil truck, pull the wheels and LOOK at all the parts. grease all the bearings, and go from there. good post, with all these trucks on the road in civy hands it is a very very good thing posts like this keep coming up, the most important bolts to get a wrench on first are the jack shaft, then everything else. every year.

 

[pittdog]

Sorry Man .. that thing need to go back to AZ for a over haul .... no icons to ad ........

 

[scootertrs]

Sorry Man .. that thing need to go back to AZ for a over haul .... no icons to ad ........

??? don't get it

 

[Angus1]

This a good heads up, but some people buy these trucks and treat them like cars. Most people don't maintain those either.

 

[scootertrs]

This a good heads up, but some people buy these trucks and treat them like cars. Most people don't maintain those either.

but some people buy these trucks and treat them like cars

Yup... but they are not. And when you drive something that can do so much damage if anything hiccups, you have a responsibility that goes along with that ownership... (personally, I look at is as sort of a privilege)

And as far as car lack of maintenance goes... I don't have any patience for that either...

 

[jollyroger]

I know this subject has come up a lot on SS. I am probably going to say something that you all may not like but I want to say it anyway because I think it is important and I hope you all don't take it the wrong way. Maintenance is extremely important with ANY vehicle, aircraft, ship, vessle, machinery etc. However, stuff breaks on anything mechanical. Otherwise planes would never crash except for pilot error and ships would never sink except for pilot error. Proper operation of a MV comes first with common sense from the operator. Things can break without warning and things can be missed even with proper maintenance. I personally don't think that all MV's would be stripped from private hands or made impossible for the GP to get due to an accident. Even one that was through complete negligence from the owner. The Government makes way too much money from selling to the GP to stop because some guy is lax with the maintenance of his truck and he hits a school bus full of kids. In reality that accident is that operators resposibility alone and we as a community of MV owners should not take on that resposibility.

I enjoy the ownership of my surplus MV's as much as all of you do and I don't want to lose the privelege either. I also don't want to have the loss of this privelege become a self fulfilling prophecy because we are talking about it that way every time we talk about the single circuit brake systems or the lack of maintenace thereof. Maintaining a ton of stopping distance and using gears to slow down is as important a tool in the operation of these trucks as the maintenance of the brakes. Now I'm hearing tires being thrown into the same category as the brakes. Then we are going to have to include the tie rod ends and the steering gearboxes and the steering shafts and the spring pivot bolts and the axle to spring retaining bolts etc. Not to mention all of us should get certified to work on these trucks or take them to a "certified" mechanic. What I am saying is this discussion becomes a slippery slope.

Don't get me wrong. I think maintenance is extremely important and I am all about the DIY. I don't like to take my trucks to anyone else to have them fixed because I want to know how the job was done and that it was done to my standards. I also think there are some people out there that have no business owning a MV. Quite frankly those same people I think are unfit for a drivers license in the first place. But it's not for me to say who has the privelege and who does not. What I don't want us to do is to get caught in the trap of being responsible as a community for that individual. How many accidents with MV's have happened for whatever reason since the Government started surplussing their vehicles to the GP? None of those accidents to date have spawned the removal of all MV's from the GP's hands. If I screw up and I miss something on my maintenance and I have an accident I don't want anyone here or in the MV community to take my resposibility for me.

I totally understand the lecturing about maintenance but maybe we should think about how we talk about this topic as a community before the wrong people see into our minds and make our nightmares a reality.

 

[pa.rich]

Good comments. Exactly why mine are only used on my own land.. They wont go on the road until they are safe for everyone around me. Brakes and tires most important.

 

[scootertrs]

>>>I totally understand the lecturing about maintenance but maybe we should think about how we talk about this topic as a community before the wrong people see into our minds and make our nightmares a reality.

I know of no other way to bring my point accross... If I were a betting man, I would bet that there are many, many mv's in similar conditions... I repeat... just because it stops and does not leak does not necessarily mean it is OK... mine did both and it was in very very bad shape... I had no idea my system was as rough as it was and I consider myself a cautions owner operator. I promise to be more careful next time. Luckily for me, All worked out well.

 

[Varyag]

I pm'd mine the day i got it and got her up to what I thought was good. I have had my truck apart for rebuilding for the past 3 months and while i was working with the front axel I took a closer look at the lines going from the axel to the wheels. They were a little cracked on top of the rubber so I ordered some more. When I was replacing them I found that the little spring that keeps them from rubbing had popped off and the lines were rubbing through on the joint. I bet one more hard stop would have been it for them.

I double checked everything else and they are fine... but man, you can never look hard enough I guess.

 

[scootertrs]

My point exactly... we only have one system, no backup... if it fails... it is up to downshifting, e-brake, power down, or prayer ... etc. If we develop a small leak in a cylinder... it may be gradual (hopefully) and not catastrophic, but if we get what you described... a burst line... you are done... period.

I wonder if by the system not being redundant and having no backup, at X hours of operation or simply by age a complete (and I mean complete) rebuild of the brake system would be mandated or be in order.

I am almost done with the deuce, but can guarantee that the 818 is not leaving my yard until I go through everything. Notice the operative term... "I"

Good luck

 

[gringeltaube]

I may add that even in the condition described above it is very unlikely that a wheel cylinder or MC suffers a sudden "catastrophic" failure without any "warning signs"... most probably it will start leaking long before that.
BUT watch for rotten flexhoses and corroded brake tubing waiting to burst! Only in the best case it begins with a small leak...!
So if undetected/neglected, that normally goes from normal full brake power to NO-brakes-at-all, instantly, radically and with no warnings!! The very next time one steps on the pedal: (... ohh what a feeling....) NOTHING!, "simply" due to loss of all fluid in the MC reservoir!

A few ways to greatly improve IMHO the safety factor here (and peace of mind as well): first, perform a "pressure test" from time to time (like every hydraulic circuit should undergo...!): for example while standing still (normal running conditions) step on the brake pedal for a minute, with about twice the force needed to normally lock all wheels, then take a flashlight and check the brake lines.
Second, install a remote reservoir. This was done easily and many times here, see for example http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/42401-remote-brake-fluid-reservoir.html
Third, add some kind of low level indicator to that remote reservoir. Probably also been done already (although not personally, yet.) It should not be to difficult to adapt such from existing parts in the civilian junkyard world...


G.

 

[scootertrs]

I like the test idea. While performing the test on my 818 I also noticed that the lines were covered in dirt and mud. I know that such conditions lead to rotting steel lines. I have added cleaning the brake lines and then protecting them from rust. I have a feeling that when these lines leak, they probably get eaten up from the outside in by corrosion.

I also have a remote brake reservoir coming my way. Thanks

 

[gringeltaube]

.................... I have a feeling that when these lines leak, they probably get eaten up from the outside in by corrosion.
.................................

Yes, that's normally the case!
Problem is, how to detect a corroded tubing section BEFORE it starts leaking.

G.