Lift kit for M1009

[nathus]

I off-roaded quite a bit with 33" tires and the stock 10 bolts. The rear differential can explode if you're able to spin one tire and allow it to bang into the locked position but it's hard enough to get a wheel to spin in the first place

But would you suggest to put 35s on the 10 bolt ?
Or did you change your axles because you wanted to run 35s without trouble ?

 

[The FLU farm]

How were you able to run 35s without lifting it ?
With my 33s I can't realy complain about the speed even on freeways. I did'nt buy that car to drive fast anyway, I have other toys for high speed

But I can run at 75mph without having the impression to kill the engine.
All the K5's I saw during my vacation in the US were lifted...
i'd like to have a nice look but want to keep a really strong and reliable truck.

I ran 35s with minor fender cutting, which most people wouldn't even notice unless they stuck their head in the wheel well. At one point it had something like 36x16.50s on it, but that required some more cutting. Still not exactly obvious. As I've mentioned in the past, a lift doesn't make the fender openings any bigger, so a functional suspension (without lowered bump stops) will require some cutting.

I also have much faster vehicles, and like driving fast, but being a low rpm person I didn't like to see the tach show over 2,000 rpm. Maybe 2,200 for short periods. Still, I wanted to keep up with freeway traffic, which around L.A. means 75-80 mph. Unless it's at a standstill.

All the K-5s you saw were lifted? And I thought you were just here, not in the late Eighties, early Nineties. Back then, for some reason, many thought that it was a good idea to run 44s. Those lifted ones could be had for very cheap a few years later, once the owners realized what they had created.

Since you're after "the look", yet want really strong and reliable, start shopping for axles, eliminating the slip yoke, etc.. It won't be cheap, but that's what you'll have to do.
Oh, according to Gale Banks, you'll reduce the life span of your engine by about 3% if adding a turbo. A properly engineered setup, that is.

If I were you, I'd take a picture of an M1009 (or photo shop a K-5) that looks like you'd want yours to look. Then tape the photo to the dash and pretend that that's how yours looks. It'd be a heck of a lot cheaper and easier. Plus, you could easily "change the look" of it, every day if you wanted to, without all the drawbacks of having to do it for real.
Easy for me to say, but that's because I've been there, done that, and I'm no longer willing to live with the consequences of having a lifted vehicle when the lift serves no purpose.

 

[Ilikemtb999]

But would you suggest to put 35s on the 10 bolt ?
Or did you change your axles because you wanted to run 35s without trouble ?

I got a great deal on axles and couldn't run a 15" tire anymore so figured I might as well step it up to 35's. I use mine on trails up into the mountains so I was always nervous of my rear axle but never actually had any issues.


It doesnt really sound like anybody is going to convince you otherwise from what you want to do, so just do it and fix whatever breaks or you have issues with.

 

[nathus]

I got a great deal on axles and couldn't run a 15" tire anymore so figured I might as well step it up to 35's. I use mine on trails up into the mountains so I was always nervous of my rear axle but never actually had any issues.


It doesnt really sound like anybody is going to convince you otherwise from what you want to do, so just do it and fix whatever breaks or you have issues with.

Hi,

Thanks for your answer.
Well, the reason why I spend so much time to read reviews and ask people advise ; is exactly because I don't want to break tings and fix them later... I tought that was the purpose of a forum, to enjoy people experiences...
I'm sorry if you guys have the feeling that I am the kind of idiot who ask advise but don't listen to...
Because that's not at all what I am.

So far, only 2 of you have answered. I'd like to have a lot of advices to take a rational and objective decision.
(Altough I have ridden many difffrent things here before.)

On my main questions nobody so far could give me a very clear answer. Which makes it even more complicate to sort the information.

Is the GM 10 bolt strong enough for run 35s and this for a long time ?
How can we inspect and prevent driveshaft issues ? Will it for sure break with a 4" lift kit ?
How can we fix it when it breaks ?
What about the brake lines ? will it work or not ? ...

I understood that a lot of people have different setups and all of you don't use your truck the same way or for the same reasons.
But these truck were build in the same factory, originally they are all the same and there are douzands of them in the US.
I hoped that on some question I could have a "yes or no" answer.
Instead of reading that I should take a picture of another truck or that I won't listen anyway so why asking...


For all who don't really like to answer or to give their meaning or for the one's who are borred about my questions ; feel free to skip this post.

 

[joshuak]

My opinion on your questions.

Is the GM 10 bolt strong enough for run 35s and this for a long time ? Maybe, but why risk it. If I'm building a rig to last a long time I don't want to make my axles the weak link.
How can we inspect and prevent driveshaft issues ? By installing your lift and your driveshaft, then checking your driveline angles (diff pinion, shaft and transfer case) making sure you don't need to switch to a CV joint shat and also checking for spline engagement. Will it for sure break with a 4" lift kit ? I'd be more worried it would fall out or vibrate.
How can we fix it when it breaks ? Buy the one you need according to your angles and distances.
What about the brake lines ? will it work or not ? ... Stock lines were not close for my 3" lift on my M1010.

Good place to learn about driveshaft angles s at the following site. http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.asp

I took the liberty of quoting the article bellow, because it also is a good response to:

On my main questions nobody so far could give me a very clear answer. Which makes it even more complicate to sort the information.

"So what do you do? ,Who do you believe?, Larger joints? Possibly a C.V. ? Quite frankly, only YOU can answer these questions."



Again only my , probably not worth that much. Good luck.

 

[nathus]

My opinion on your questions.

Good place to learn about driveshaft angles s at the following site. http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.asp

I took the liberty of quoting the article bellow, because it also is a good response to:



"So what do you do? ,Who do you believe?, Larger joints? Possibly a C.V. ? Quite frankly, only YOU can answer these questions."



Again only my , probably not worth that much. Good luck.

Hi,

Thank you for your help !
I would be nice to have a feedback of someone who has the same car and who did the same transformations.
I agree with you, why making the axle weak ; but the question who matters is : "is the axle weak or not that much" ?
Thank you for the article, it's very ineteresting, a little hard for me to understand everything because English is not my language.
They talk about 3° angles, but is this like this on all the trucks ? It's a quiet small angle, not easy at all to measure that...

What is "spline engagement" ?

Buy a new driveshaft, ok but where and which one ? It will hard to find here, for sure.
Are they all the same between the k5 and M1009, M1008, ... ?
I heard some people took the ones from a pick up and cut it. I guess you have to weld it together after that ; is than still strong enough ?
I didn't get the part on the brake lines, yours were too short ?

regards
Nathan

 

[Ilikemtb999]

I've said in previous posts that you can use 2wd front brake lines to get cheap extended lines. You just need to remove a bracket from them that is bent around the hose.



35" tires weigh a considerable amount. My bfg ko2's with steel rims come in at about 100lbs each. You're asking if axles on a vehicle that came with 31" tires to move a decent amount more of rotating weight, not to mention slowing down that extra weight. There are far to many variables at play to say yes or no if the axles will survive. I personally wouldn't run more than a 33" tire strictly because of the 3.08 gears.

I had a completely new driveshaft made. Last thing I wanted was a 32+ year old drive shaft coming apart on me and catapulting my vehicle or coming thru the floor and hurting someone.


You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either do it right and spend a lot of money to fix any potential weak links or go cheap and deal with the consequences if something doesn't last.

 

[The FLU farm]

They talk about 3° angles, but is this like this on all the trucks ? It's a quiet small angle, not easy at all to measure that...

Nathan, that would be easy to measure if you invest in a tape measure (which would also help answer your brake hose question).
Park on a flat surface, measure the distance from that surface to center of the front U-joint, then the same for the rear U-joint. Lastly, measure between the U-joints. Now you can calculate the angle of the drive shaft.
And by the way, 3 degrees is not a small angle when it comes to drive shafts, but about right.

For the rest of your questions, unfortunately the the most common answer would be "It depends on..."
If you Google "spline engagement" you'll probably find lots of reading. It may also explain why you couldn't use a drive shaft out of an M1008, although it wouldn't be only because of the splines bottoming out.

 

[nathus]

And I tought that all of this was easy.
Buy some springs, some blocks and there we go!

 

[The FLU farm]

And I tought that all of this was easy. Buy some springs, some blocks and there we go!

Yeah, it could be that easy...if you get the right stuff and/or think it through first. But I'm starting to wonder if you even have a torque wrench (mostly for the new U-bolts), let alone a mill to take the taper out of the lift blocks.

 

[nathus]

didn't get the last sentence...
but, YES i have a torque wrench.

I'm used to rebuild and ride drit bikes... I know a little more about mechanichals than what I exposed here...

Knowledge is like butter, less you have and more you try to spread it.

 

[The FLU farm]

I know a little more about mechanichals than what I exposed here...

Glad to hear that. Surely you can then easily perform what might be the 2-millionth K-5 lift without any further assistance from me.

 

[nathus]

Glad to hear that. Surely you can then easily perform what might be the 2-millionth K-5 lift without any further assistance from me.

No offense sir, it just seems that all my questions bother you.
If that's right, just skip this post... If not, try to be nice with me

But I am really grateful for your help.

 

[Ilikemtb999]

So what all did you get for a lift? Just front springs and rear blocks? Did it come with new u bolts?


I would just get some 2wd blazer/c10 front rubber brake lines. The rear is most likely fine since it's centered over the axle and if not you can bend the mount down.

Install the front springs and the rear blocks (don't torque the rear u bolts, just snug) and then use an angle finder for your driveshaft/yoke angles and make sure they're within a degree of each other. The pinion yoke to driveshaft angle should be 1-2* positive in comparison to account for axle wrap on acceleration and should never be negative. Adjust accordingly by getting the blocks milled to the angle you need. It might just work though as is.

Also once the suspension is installed you can measure your slip yoke to see how much it's pulled out of the transfer case with the added height. In reality the slip yoke only moves a small amount in and out......unless you're doing jumps.


Once you've done all that, you will know if you need to get a new driveshaft made or not and you can decide on if you want to upsize your tires or not. Just keep in mind you're mainly going to hurt acceleration going to a larger tire and put more strain on the drivetrain with stock gearing


I also do not think it's worthwhile to spend the money to re gear the rear axle as you'd be better off going to a 14 bolt full float axle for the same price. You can regear the front to the new rear axle and buy 8 lug hubs and rotors for the front 10 bolt.

 

[nathus]

So what all did you get for a lift? Just front springs and rear blocks? Did it come with new u bolts?


I would just get some 2wd blazer/c10 front rubber brake lines. The rear is most likely fine since it's centered over the axle and if not you can bend the mount down.

Install the front springs and the rear blocks (don't torque the rear u bolts, just snug) and then use an angle finder for your driveshaft/yoke angles and make sure they're within a degree of each other. The pinion yoke to driveshaft angle should be 1-2* positive in comparison to account for axle wrap on acceleration and should never be negative. Adjust accordingly by getting the blocks milled to the angle you need. It might just work though as is.

Also once the suspension is installed you can measure your slip yoke to see how much it's pulled out of the transfer case with the added height. In reality the slip yoke only moves a small amount in and out......unless you're doing jumps.


Once you've done all that, you will know if you need to get a new driveshaft made or not and you can decide on if you want to upsize your tires or not. Just keep in mind you're mainly going to hurt acceleration going to a larger tire and put more strain on the drivetrain with stock gearing


I also do not think it's worthwhile to spend the money to re gear the rear axle as you'd be better off going to a 14 bolt full float axle for the same price. You can regear the front to the new rear axle and buy 8 lug hubs and rotors for the front 10 bolt.

THANKS A LOT

I'll proceed like you said !

I have a pro comp 4" lift kit : with blocks for the rear and leafs for the front.
Steering arm correction and new U bolt.
Shocks also but without boots, would you suggest to but some ?

I didn't understood 100% what you mean with the blocks (not sure about the translation, sorry).
You mean that I will be able to adjust a little the position of the blocks to adjust the angle ?
I guess the C10 brake lines has to be from the same year to fit ? 1984 ?

I will drive only on the road so I shouldn't do big jumps.

I read a lot about "gear" "gearing" but again I'm not sure to understand that totally.
Is it because bigger tires reduces the acceleration that a lot of people "modify" something in the differential ?

Thanks again for your help !

 

[The FLU farm]

No offense sir, it just seems that all my questions bother you.

Indeed, some of them do. For example, just when I think that you at least have grasped the very basics, you throw something like using a drive shaft for an M1008 into the mix.
Also, Ilikemtb999 has answered - very patiently, I might add - several of your questions, yet you seem to ignore the answers and repeat the questions. Less patiently I have suggested getting a tape measure and using it, but that doesn't seem to stick, either.

I used to frequent another vehicle forum where someone either started a new thread, or posted in an existing one, with the sole purpose of stirring up crap. He got booted numerous times, but kept coming back under new names. I hope I'm wrong, but you have made me remember him.

 

[nathus]

Indeed, some of them do. For example, just when I think that you at least have grasped the very basics, you throw something like using a drive shaft for an M1008 into the mix.
Also, Ilikemtb999 has answered - very patiently, I might add - several of your questions, yet you seem to ignore the answers and repeat the questions. Less patiently I have suggested getting a tape measure and using it, but that doesn't seem to stick, either.

I used to frequent another vehicle forum where someone either started a new thread, or posted in an existing one, with the sole purpose of stirring up crap. He got booted numerous times, but kept coming back under new names. I hope I'm wrong, but you have made me remember him.

Again, English is not my native language, that's why I have to repeat some things or ask them again with different words to be sure I got the information !
Like I told you I thank you for the useful information you gave me but it's always interesting to have more than 1 advice.
And finally, no I don't use different websites to ask continuously the same things.I might have better things to do...
About bothering you, again and again, I'll repeat it for the last time : it's not an obligation to answer on this threat !
For the ones who want to help and who helped already, I'm very thankful for your patience ! I hope that I can help other people with a lot of patience later as well...

Finally, I'll try to put this lift kit in the coming days, so I guess this story will come to an end.

 

[The FLU farm]

I'm glad you appreciate the information. As you may recall, English is not my native language, either, so when I built my Jeep (in Europe, as mentioned earlier) I had to figure out the language, how to buy parts I couldn't make, and many, many other things.
And please keep in mind that what I did may possibly have been done before by someone, somewhere, but while in part that was highly unlikely I had no easy way of knowing.
I couldn't simply use Google and find all the answers, especially to questions that had never been asked since I was pioneering things. That was because the internet hadn't been invented yet.
You aren't exactly in ground breaking territory when lifting a K-5, which is why my patience has worn beyond thin.

Lastly, as far as the guy on the other forum goes, his posts didn't exactly match the supposed time zone, either. Yet another reason I'm skeptical here.

 

[Ilikemtb999]

THANKS A LOT

I'll proceed like you said !

I have a pro comp 4" lift kit : with blocks for the rear and leafs for the front.
Steering arm correction and new U bolt.
Shocks also but without boots, would you suggest to but some ?

I didn't understood 100% what you mean with the blocks (not sure about the translation, sorry).
You mean that I will be able to adjust a little the position of the blocks to adjust the angle ?
I guess the C10 brake lines has to be from the same year to fit ? 1984 ?

I will drive only on the road so I shouldn't do big jumps.

I read a lot about "gear" "gearing" but again I'm not sure to understand that totally.
Is it because bigger tires reduces the acceleration that a lot of people "modify" something in the differential ?

Thanks again for your help !

Shocks:
I have boots on my shocks, I don't think it's a negative to keep debris off of the shafts.


Blocks/driveshaft:
Typically people use shims to correct driveshaft angles but with blocks it's not the greatest option. A better option is to machine the angle you need into the actual block itself. Measuring the angles once everything is together is the only way you'll know if this is necessary or not. Same goes for lengthening the driveshaft or not. You won't know until it's together and you measure.

As the diameter of the tire gets larger, it changes the final drive ratio. Stock is 3.08 gears and 31" tires. Going to a 35" tire is like changing your final drive ratio to 2.73. To make it the same as stock you'd have to go to a 3.42 gear (about the closest). 3.73 or 4.11 gears would be better.

 

[nathus]

Shocks:
I have boots on my shocks, I don't think it's a negative to keep debris off of the shafts.


Blocks/driveshaft:
Typically people use shims to correct driveshaft angles but with blocks it's not the greatest option. A better option is to machine the angle you need into the actual block itself. Measuring the angles once everything is together is the only way you'll know if this is necessary or not. Same goes for lengthening the driveshaft or not. You won't know until it's together and you measure.

As the diameter of the tire gets larger, it changes the final drive ratio. Stock is 3.08 gears and 31" tires. Going to a 35" tire is like changing your final drive ratio to 2.73. To make it the same as stock you'd have to go to a 3.42 gear (about the closest). 3.73 or 4.11 gears would be better.

Great explanation again !
Thanks you.

About the boots, I agree with you. I saw some people who were complaining about mud and water that was stuck in it. But I guess it's les bad than stones who can scratch the chrome shaft.

I saw some videos on youtube about the "shimming" thing. It looks efficient, I hope still I won't have to do it because I really don't know with what I can cut these blocks. It has to be quiet sharp, there is not a lot to cut and it looks like very heavy steel
Is it usually front AND rear driveshaft who needs to be adjusted or only the rear ?

For the tires I'll just continue a little with the ones I have right now and see how it fits with the lift kit. I think that they gonna look small, but I'll see.
I also informed on the prices for axles, a 10 bolt is not too expensive like 150 USD. But it looks like the dana 60 and 14 bolt are very expensive here +- 1500 USD.
The guy who sells them told me also that they are with 8 "studs" so I would have to change the rimes also, is this correct ?
He thinks it won't be a problem to put some 35s on the gm 10 bolt because it's a diesel engin and it's less agressive than a gas one... Had ridden that also before.

First things first, the tires are not a big deal if I have to keep them. I'm more concerned about to place the lift kit correctly and save the driveshaft.

Thanks a lot again for your advices.

Nathan