Lift kit for M1009

[Ilikemtb999]

Hi again,

Thanks you for time !
You suggested me the C10 front brakeline, right ?
But what about the rear ?

I read very ofter "axle xrap" but I can't translate it very clearly and google neither. Can you explain this with other words ?

Regards
Nathan

the application would be for a 2wd version of a k5 (but a c10 would work as well).

 

[nathus]

Woow I got you, this looks awefull ! Thanks for the picture, I also looked some videos about it. it's very clear now.
What are the conséquences ? Breaking the diff I guess ?
Is this something you can feel while driving or not really ?
Typically a conséquence of the lift blocks or does it do the same with a suspension lift or shackle flip ?

Making the driveshaft longer won't change anything for that problem, does it ?
I'm pretty enoyed now, because I think I found somebody who can make my driveshaft longer, BUT my first problem is that I don't know how much longer I have to go
and if I replace the blocks later by new leafs I guess the driveshaft will have to be redone ? Am I wrong ?

Thanks again for the tip for the brakelines, I'm gonna order some and let you know if it worked. What can I do for the rear ?
Is there a reason why they made them longer on the 2wd version ?
I'm using silicon brakefluid, is this a problem ?

Sorry for all these questions again...
But at least, somewhere, who knows when, somebody else will be happy to find all your knowledge
Regards
Nathan

 

[Ilikemtb999]

It’s the lift blocks that exacerbate the axle wrap affect. You can certainly feel it from a stop if you get on the throttle. You can break leafs, u joints, etc.


i would ask how the driveshaft place wants tou to measure. They know how to take into account how far the slip yoke moves.

2wd trucks have control arms and the rubber hoses run down the arms to the knuckle. Im sure you could go to an auto parts store and ask to go thru their lines to find something longer for the rear.

Dot 5 silicone brake fluid is what it should of had from the factory.

 

[nathus]

It’s the lift blocks that exacerbate the axle wrap affect. You can certainly feel it from a stop if you get on the throttle. You can break leafs, u joints, etc.


i would ask how the driveshaft place wants tou to measure. They know how to take into account how far the slip yoke moves.

2wd trucks have control arms and the rubber hoses run down the arms to the knuckle. Im sure you could go to an auto parts store and ask to go thru their lines to find something longer for the rear.

Dot 5 silicone brake fluid is what it should of had from the factory.

Unfortunatly,
They work only on plans. I can't go there with the car and show them.
They expect that I give them all specifications and they realise what I want...
The thing is, I don't have any idea about to measure this and how to give them the good length...
I was thinking , One way to get along with this would be to find somebody with a standard truck an ask him how long the slip yoke is entered in the T-case. Compare this to mine, and make mine longer in function of the measure.
Am I right ?

But like I told you before, I'm afraid to make longer and to struggle with the same problem if I decide later to replace the blocks by leafs.

Thanks for the explanation for the brakelines. I'll order some of the 2wd (same year than mine?) on rockauto and make them ship to Belgium. Crossfinger that everything fits perfectly. Because I can't send them back because of the heavy taxes...
For the back, I can't ask here there are no shops who sell parts for that kind of cars unfortunatly

 

[Ilikemtb999]

When I have driveshafts made, my shop just wants a measurement from the yoke to the end of the tailshaft. They do the rest. Is this not a driveshaft shop that you’re dealing with?


http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/app/webroot/img/File/how_to_measure_diagrams/b.html

 

[nathus]

When I have driveshafts made, my shop just wants a measurement from the yoke to the end of the tailshaft. They do the rest. Is this not a driveshaft shop that you’re dealing with?


http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/app/webroot/img/File/how_to_measure_diagrams/b.html

OMG everything would be so much easier if I was dealing with a compagnyvlike that one...
In my case they don't have any idea about our yokes or t case. They are mostly building driveshafts for agricultural machinery. They can help because they have to equipment to cut, to weld and to balance but they can't help me with the measures...

 

[Bighorn]

OMG everything would be so much easier if I was dealing with a compagnyvlike that one...
In my case they don't have any idea about our yokes or t case. They are mostly building driveshafts for agricultural machinery. They can help because they have to equipment to cut, to weld and to balance but they can't help me with the measures...

Nathus, Denny's Driveshafts can build a driveshaft for you and ship it anywhere in the world.
I highly recommend you use them or another online service such as; http://www.sixstates.com/products/categoriessuppliers.jsp?category=DL
who are actual automotive driveshaft builders.
No offense to the company you have selected but if they don't know what an NP208 slip yoke is, or a GM 10 bolt axle with a 3R u-joint, or how to use a seal to center measurement to lengthen a shaft, they are worthless to you.
Anyone with a lathe can cut the end yokes out of a driveshaft but..
It takes special fixtures to hold an NP208 yoke and 3R u-joint to place it in a press to press the end yokes into a longer piece of tubing, straighten, weld the end yokes to that tubing, and in the machine to spin it up and balance it.
I have a hard time believing an agricultural company in Belgium, that is incapable of lengthening a driveshaft based on a simple seal to center measurement, also possesses these GM specific fixtures.
Do yourself a favor and use an online service familiar with American vehicles.

Measurements;
Truck on level ground.
Measure from the seal on the output of the transfer case, straight back, to the center of the cup on the rear differential yoke.
You have an NP 208 Transfer case and a GM 10 Bolt 8.5 rear differential with a 3R pinion yoke.

That is all the information you need to have a quality driveshaft made by a REAL company.
As for changing out the lift blocks later; it won't matter if you keep the same amount of lift.

 

[nathus]

Nathus, Denny's Driveshafts can build a driveshaft for you and ship it anywhere in the world.
I highly recommend you use them or another online service such as; http://www.sixstates.com/products/categoriessuppliers.jsp?category=DL
who are actual automotive driveshaft builders.
No offense to the company you have selected but if they don't know what an NP208 slip yoke is, or a GM 10 bolt axle with a 3R u-joint, or how to use a seal to center measurement to lengthen a shaft, they are worthless to you.
Anyone with a lathe can cut the end yokes out of a driveshaft but..
It takes special fixtures to hold an NP208 yoke and 3R u-joint to place it in a press to press the end yokes into a longer piece of tubing, straighten, weld the end yokes to that tubing, and in the machine to spin it up and balance it.
I have a hard time believing an agricultural company in Belgium, that is incapable of lengthening a driveshaft based on a simple seal to center measurement, also possesses these GM specific fixtures.
Do yourself a favor and use an online service familiar with American vehicles.

Measurements;
Truck on level ground.
Measure from the seal on the output of the transfer case, straight back, to the center of the cup on the rear differential yoke.
You have an NP 208 Transfer case and a GM 10 Bolt 8.5 rear differential with a 3R pinion yoke.

That is all the information you need to have a quality driveshaft made by a REAL company.
As for changing out the lift blocks later; it won't matter if you keep the same amount of lift.

Hi Bighorn,

Thanks again for your intervention !
I don't doubt that I will be able to find somebody in the US who can make that job perfectly and send it here.
But as always, it's all about money. I can't spend like 500 USD for the shaft, an extra 250 USD for transport it to here and on top of this an additional 300 USD for import tax in Belgium.
Unfortunatly, I don't have any other choice than dealing with what I'll find here.
But you are right it would be much much easier with a compagny who has knowledge for cars, even better if they have knowledge for american cars.
I understand your idea : "if you want something well done, pay the price for it and don't bother us with your questions" But sometimes it's possible to do things right (while asking a lot and bother a lot of people) but you'll save money and learn things.

The compagny that I was talking about, is quiet pro actually. They build driveshafts for a lot of machines but also for the main limosine builder here in Belgium.
if you want to have a look http://www.nadinmotor.be
The thing is, there are a little too pro for my request. They are used to work on plans comming from an engeneer and develop what the guy asks.
I'm a little confused about the explanation on the way they should make a shaft longer.
If I make this easy and translate it in my words, a driveshaft is made with : a slip yoke + u joint - long tube - U-joint + end yoke. Am I right so far ?
I thought that the only way to make a longer shaft was to cut "the long tube" in the middle, than weld a small piece of tube to it and reassemble the rest. Is this right or not ?
When that's done, balance it...
If that's the job to do, I have no doubt that they are totaly capable to do it. The only question who matters for them is :"how much longer do we have to make it..."

What about to find a standard m1009, and measure how long the slip yoke is in the t-case and try to report this to my situation ?

Again thanks for your help !

 

[Bighorn]

No, they don't add a piece of tubing to the middle.
Are you joking?
The welds holding the end yokes to the tubing are machined out.
The end yokes are pressed into a new piece of tubing the proper length, straightened, welded, and spin balanced.
I highly doubt six states or Dennys would cost that much.
They send shafts all over the planet.
I think you are making it more of a hassle than it really is.

 

[nathus]

No, they don't add a piece of tubing to the middle.
Are you joking?
The welds holding the end yokes to the tubing are machined out.
The end yokes are pressed into a new piece of tubing the proper length, straightened, welded, and spin balanced.
I highly doubt six states or Dennys would cost that much.
They send shafts all over the planet.
I think you are making it more of a hassle than it really is.

Eeeuh,
No, I was just thinking and trying to imagine but I've never seen it...
That means that the middle part "the long tube" is replaced by a longer one ? I though there was a way to keep it and make the existing one longer.
But Ok, I think understood the method.

I asked a quote to the shops you were talking about. We will see what they answer.

Is it true to say that if you make the long tube longer you enlarge a little the angles again ?

 

[nathus]

Eeeuh,
No, I was just thinking and trying to imagine but I've never seen it...
That means that the middle part "the long tube" is replaced by a longer one ? I though there was a way to keep it and make the existing one longer.
But Ok, I think understood the method.

I asked a quote to the shops you were talking about. We will see what they answer.

Is it true to say that if you make the long tube longer you enlarge a little the angles again ?

What about lower my t-case ?
Appears not expensive and easy to do ; will it solve all my probelms ?

Otherwise if somebody know how I can calculate the new needed length of that **** driveshaft ...

 

[nathus]

What about lower my t-case ?
Appears not expensive and easy to do ; will it solve all my probelms ?

Otherwise if somebody know how I can calculate the new needed length of that **** driveshaft ...

Anybody ?

why is it so hard to find someone who have or had the same car with same height and read what he did ...

 

[nathus]

Hi everybody,

I have maybe found a way to determine my new driveshaft lenght.
I found a guy who owns the same truck (same year and also military version) but without lift kit and on his orinal tires.
I've measured how much the slip yoke is out the t-case one his truck and on mine and compared the values. It looks like mine is 1,7 cm further out. (0,67 inch)
My idea is to lengthen the driveshaft the way that my slip yoke is going to go 1,7cm more forward in the t case. With that I'm close again to a standard version. And this I can calulate it.
I'm just concerned about the angles, I think but I'm not sure, that this will make the angles a little bigger than they are already. true ?

I noticed also that the standard version has an angle of +- 14 degrees on the driveline ; on mine it's now more or less 19 degrees.

The only thing I don't know is in how far the vibrations are due to the angles or due to the driveshaft who became a little short.

I've have read a lot of people talikng about lowering the t case , but what are the advantages and disadvantage about that method compared to the driveshaft lenghten option ?
Please explain what and why you would choose one instaed of the other one ?

 

[Hollywuds]

Ruff country with crossover steering. Rides and drives great. 37.5 hmmwv tires

 

[richingalveston]

just for the info:

lowering the t-case by lowering the cross member makes your front driveshaft angle worse.

If possible (not sure on 208t-case) the 205 t-case can be clocked down. This means the front angle stays the same because the t-case is just rotated a little bit where it mounts to the tranny and allows the rear output to be lowered. This is the best means of lowering your rear output of t-case.

re-tubing the drive shaft - most of the times they replace the entire tube section with a new longer tube and not piece in a small section.
and yes as you described it is that simple to re-work a drive shaft. It can almost be done at home if you had a way to balance it.

With 4 inches of lift you are reaching the limits of your U-joints. It can be done with standard parts but be aware that you have to fine tune the angles which may include some washers to drop the case a small bit and also some shims on your axle mounts to rotate your pinion angles.

The best fix is to replace the slip yoke with a fixed yoke and put the slip in the shaft so that you can utilize a double cardon joint and not a u-joint. (Make the rear drive shaft just like the front drive shaft. The front has the cv joint at the t-case and slips in the shaft.)

you need to put your truck in the air and let your axles hang to test the max drop of your u-joints. With the tires hanging and the t-case in neutral, spin the tires and watch the u-joints. you will find out if your u-joints bind. If they do, you may need to clearance the joint just a little bit. a bound up u-joint on moving truck can throw the driveshaft right out of the truck and cause a lot of damage. to clearance them you grind out the stops on the u-joint so it has a little more movement. This does will shorten the life of the u-joint and if to much is cleared they don't last long

http://www.4xshaft.com/
The above link is to the tom woods drive shaft website. This is the premier 4x4 drive shaft shop in the US.
They have a lot of info here that might help.

I understand your limitations with your location so you may be able to use this website to show your local shop some good info. If you can get another front shaft from a blazer and the kit to make it a fixed yoke then you can have a local shop complete the work.

hope this helps.

 

[Horsepowerparts]

Hi.
We use often the Superlift Kit K417.
Swaybar Relocation Bracket
And a drop Pitman arm.
You must drop the transfer case. It is easy.
With this 4" Kit you can drive 35`s.

But you must now it is NOT comfortable.
It is only for the look or to become more ground clearance.
But 35´s are not for hard offroad.

I love the stock suspension on a M1009 with 33 BF All Terrain.
But sometimes we built a M1009 with Lift Kit

regards
Steve

 

[Rustyshackelford]

Never drop the transfer case.

 

[Horsepowerparts]

Ok.
Drop is not the correct word.
It must be lower.
It is better for the rear drive shaft

 

[nathus]

just for the info:

lowering the t-case by lowering the cross member makes your front driveshaft angle worse.

If possible (not sure on 208t-case) the 205 t-case can be clocked down. This means the front angle stays the same because the t-case is just rotated a little bit where it mounts to the tranny and allows the rear output to be lowered. This is the best means of lowering your rear output of t-case.

re-tubing the drive shaft - most of the times they replace the entire tube section with a new longer tube and not piece in a small section.
and yes as you described it is that simple to re-work a drive shaft. It can almost be done at home if you had a way to balance it.

With 4 inches of lift you are reaching the limits of your U-joints. It can be done with standard parts but be aware that you have to fine tune the angles which may include some washers to drop the case a small bit and also some shims on your axle mounts to rotate your pinion angles.

The best fix is to replace the slip yoke with a fixed yoke and put the slip in the shaft so that you can utilize a double cardon joint and not a u-joint. (Make the rear drive shaft just like the front drive shaft. The front has the cv joint at the t-case and slips in the shaft.)

you need to put your truck in the air and let your axles hang to test the max drop of your u-joints. With the tires hanging and the t-case in neutral, spin the tires and watch the u-joints. you will find out if your u-joints bind. If they do, you may need to clearance the joint just a little bit. a bound up u-joint on moving truck can throw the driveshaft right out of the truck and cause a lot of damage. to clearance them you grind out the stops on the u-joint so it has a little more movement. This does will shorten the life of the u-joint and if to much is cleared they don't last long

http://www.4xshaft.com/
The above link is to the tom woods drive shaft website. This is the premier 4x4 drive shaft shop in the US.
They have a lot of info here that might help.

I understand your limitations with your location so you may be able to use this website to show your local shop some good info. If you can get another front shaft from a blazer and the kit to make it a fixed yoke then you can have a local shop complete the work.

hope this helps.

Hi,

Thank you for the information !
I'm glad to see that you guys still read my stuff

Since the last post I did some research and tests.
I lowered the t-case about 1 inch and could see that it reduces the angles at the rear shaft. It also brought the slip yoke a little more forwards ; not so far from his original position.
I made a test drive with truck and it looks like the vibarations are pretty much gone. I had the feeling that the truck had a little harder to shift but maybe it's in my head...

But, i'm not so happy with this solution. I have seen to much people who doesn't advise to lower the t -case because of the stress it creates on the engine mounts and now it scares me a little.
I'm still thinking about making my drive shaft a little longer, maybe I could combine this by lowering the t-case only 0.5 inch.. ?

The cv shaft is probably the best way to go, but here in belgium it's way to expensive and hard to find.
To make my shaft longer they ask ma already 350 $ and you're right they replace the middle tube.
I'm going back to the states in december and I will inform about the price for making me a cv shaft over there trough the website you gave me. But I guess it will be much more

Since I could drive a little with the truck, I noticed an other problem which is maybe more enoying than the first one.
My steering is too "soft" there is too much "play" in it since I installed the lift kit. Btw the kit was deliverd with a raised steering arm.
How Can I correct this ? Some people are talking about the tie-rods but they are all fine.

Is a dual steering stabilzer a good idea ?

Already thanks for your help.
Nathan

 

[nathus]

I didn't drive a lot with the truck since I did the lift kit because of all the previous problems and issues told before.
But yet, I didn't feel a huge difference in comfort.
Altough a lot of people complain about pro comp...

My biggest problems are : "vibrations and drive shaft lenght " and "play in the steering"

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think I have a sway bar, is it possible ?