M1007 - CUCV Suburban Clone Build Thread

[richingalveston]

How much lower does the GEP pan hang than the stock th400. I am wondering if it works with the ORD cross member. I plan to put that motor in my 1009 some day and I already have the cross member. you can't slide you hand between the pan and cross member, it crosses at the motor mounts and not in front like the stock.
From the pics supplied the front clearance is not an issue, The ord cross member goes under the pan

truck looks good

 

[cucvrus]

OK. What is a GEP pan and what advantage does that have over a stock CUCV pan? I have both HMMWV pans and CUCV pans and have been putting CUCV pans on CUCV engines and HMMWV pans on HMMWV engines that I install in LKQ vehicles. Just wondered if I was missing some advantage. Also the nuts and bolts on the engine mount clam shell did require some trimming. I welded a set together and that ended the need to trim. The energy Suspension motor mounts are worth the effort. I had a pair of after markets fail in one weekend at Rausch Creek.

 

[Lizard Dog]

The rear end of that truck looks incredible

 

[Barrman]

Rich, I can get my index and middle finger together between the stock cross member and the pan. You want to know how much lower the engine pan is than the transmission? The bottom of the pan is just a hair more than an inch lower than the TH400 flexplate.

The GEP pan is shaped just like a HMMWV pan on the 6.2's. But it has a bigger rear main seal area which means no other 6.? oil pan will fit the engine. It either fits the truck or a hammer is going to make it fit kind of thing.

I like the way the Energy Suspension mount inserts feel when I shake the engine. Solid, yet just a touch of movement. The holding of the two parts together I don't think was my problem. Sure, they might have stuck up a hair more than stock. We had a lot of trouble getting the stock engine out of this truck with no transmission attached. It might be the firewall factory insulation. That extra 1/4-1/2 inch at the rear of the heads being gone really effects things.

Thank you Mark. What has Joe been saying?

 

[mkcoen]

Thank you Mark. What has Joe been saying?

Might not have been Joe. Could have just been the voices in my head. They've been arguing a lot lately.

 

[Barrman]

The art class next to mine which had a camera moved to another building and I have been reduced to even less camera access for my class.

Not all that much to show in pictures anyway. We insulated the rear inner fender wells, the rear cargo floor and the spare tire pit. I steam cleaned the rear carpet from the donor 1989 K10 Suburban and it is now installed in the Cowdog.

I had gotten to where I was spending an hour or so each night pulling stuff off the K10 and then at least once a week driving the parts to my class in the Bomber. I got tired of that and we really need the donor and receiver trucks sitting next to each other for the rear a/c mount making and line running. Plus all the under dash HVAC stuff to get transferred over. So, I loaded the K10 up on the trailer last night and pulled it in with the Bomber this morning.

The Bomber is helping its own demise basically. Once the Cowdog is done and working, the Bomber isn't going to be needed or wanted anymore.

 

[Warthog]

Tim it has been a year and you don't have this done yet? What a slacker....

 

[Barrman]

Welcome back to the internet Joe.

Lots of progress going on but no pictures. I redid the headliners, they are installed. Overhead console wiring was a major pain by itself. Add in the lighted mirror on the passenger side and the compass/thermometer mirror wiring and it becomes a mess. All done and installed now.

Rear a/c installed, working and plumbed. Getting the a/c cover mounts cut off the donor truck and installed in the correct location on the Cowdog was a week all by itself.

The entire interior is insulated and functionally installed from the front seat rear mounts back.

4 gear steering column swapped in so the 4l80e will have 1st. CUCV locks everywhere so I can stay a single key family.

Q head installed on the sanden compressor so all stock Chevy ac lines can be used. They are installed as of last Friday. I hope to put a vacuum to it this week to check for leaks.

A pillar boost, egts and engine oil temp gauges wired and installed.

I just came in from redoing the dash pad. I have a picture of that which will be below.

I happened on a 4x4 4l80e last Monday. It is a 94 which only fits a 94 truck so the price was right. Really cheap. We installed that Friday.

All of the engine accessory parts are on and connected. Except for the alternator. I haven't run the exciter wire yet. I keep doing key on test of stuff inside and don't want to hurt it.

This week should see the front bucket seat bases raised to the same height as M1009 seat bases. I really like the way I sit in a M1009 and the suburban seats have me 2 inches in front and 1 inch at the rear lower.

Instead of trying to splice into the already over taxed stock fuse panel. I am going to make another set. 6 circuit for hot and 6 more for switched. I plan to mount it to the front outside of the center console. That is why the front insulation and carpet aren't in yet.

Also found a set of H2 rims with good 315/75 BFG tires on them. They fit great. I haven't brought myself to paint the non chrome aluminum flat black yet though.

The NP241 should go on soon. I want the 4l80e shift linkage working right before I take away all my work room first. Still need to do all the brakes, check out the axles, afford a transmission computer and get drive shafts that fit.

I also might have to replace the wiper motor. The factory service manual says if the delay wipers don't work the motor is bad. 7 different delay modules and no delay wipers so the manual could be correct.

Thanks for checking in Joe.

Here re are the before and after on the dash pad. Short strand fiberglass filler, some 80 grit sanding, regular bondo, 320 sanding and some SEM paint. Maybe 4 hours and $40.

 

[86m1028]

Great progress !!

Please explain the 4l80e 94 year model only?

 

[Barrman]

I didn't know this either until last weekend.

1991-1993 4L80E units have a wiring harness unique to them and not compatible with anything newer or any of the aftermarket controller units. Besides changing the internal wiring harness, these years have to have the solenoids inside changed over. Figure $200-$300 while doing a rebuild to get that done.

1994 has the modern solenoids and wiring harness already installed. It is also the last year of the mechanical rod shift linkage.

1995+ has the cable shift linkage and bosses on the side of the transmission to hold the GM reverse light/neutral safety switch housing. They moved it from the column in 1995 when they added airbags.

Basically, anyone with a 1993 or older truck looking for a replacement needs to find a 1993 or older to allow it to plug in and work. Anyone with a 1995 and newer truck needs a 1995 and newer to hook up the shifters and wiring. That leaves 1994 as a unicorn model. It will only bolt without modifications into a stock 1994 or be used for clean slate swaps like I am doing. I know the shifter switching from linkage to cable can be gotten around. However, there are no mounts in the side of the 1994 to take the neutral safety switch and from what I found, the shaft itself is different and needs to be replaced if used on a 1995 or newer.

I have a 2wd 1992 4L80E that came with all the parts from Warthog. I have traded in the last few months for a proper aluminum 4x4 4L80E transfer case mount and output shaft. Then I started calling transmission shops. Since I was needing a new internal wiring harness and solenoids replaced, plus a rebuild. Several told me they couldn't convert to 4x4 and they got hung up on as being idiots. The few remaining said $2,000 plus anything they find wrong inside. I did find a retired guy referred to me by several people who said it shouldn't be more than $1,200 and about a week to do the work.

That is why I thought it was a scam when I found a craigslist add for a 4x4 1994 at only $400 last weekend. I texted the guy and he kept writing back that it was a good unit just pulled from a 6.5 TD truck with a cracked block. He also kept asking what year truck I had. 1987 had him confused. He finally gave me his address which was 135 miles away. The Blue Bomber and I took a road trip last Monday to find a guy with a single bay metal building in his back yard. His wife has a regular job, he takes a single vehicle apart putting everything online for sale and watches the kids. He scraps what is left to start on another one. He knew exactly what he had and why it wouldn't bring normal prices. I did get to look at the cracked #8 cylinder wall, dump transmission fluid which was the proper color with the proper feel and smell from the cooler, lines and converter. Being a diesel converter which came with the 4L80E was nice as well.

He didn't have the flywheel cover though. He said it wasn't on the truck when he got it. Anyone have one of the aluminum 4L80E flywheel covers gathering dust they want to get rid of cheap?

I really thought about even mentioning the 1994 4L80E difference last night. Yes, I have what I need for this project but I still have a few M1009's that might want one someday and I don't want the prices to go high on them too. However, with several hundred thousand made in 1994, I doubt this internet site will corner the market on them enough to drive the price up. Enjoy the knowledge.

 

[Barrman]

Forgot to mention the 1998 cooling line change. The 4L80E until 1997 had the cooler lines in the same basic spot as the TH400. They were back a little bit more compared to flywheel, but close enough that metal lines could be bent a bit to screw right in. 1998 had the return line moved back to basically the middle of the transmission case. There is also a special long tube adaptor that has to be used on that rear line or the transmission will die very quick. These models are called "rear Oilers." Depending on which internet source used. Either the normal oilers or the rear oilers are stronger. I did notice that most drag race transmission shops make a point to emphasize they sell the side oil line cases. I don't know which is better.

I figure I have something that will get me rolling at a very good price. If it doesn't work right I will go ahead and get the 2wd version built up as funds allow as an on the shelf replacement ready to go in.

 

[86m1028]

I didn't know this either until last weekend.
1991-1993 4L80E units have a wiring harness unique to them and not compatible with anything newer or any of the aftermarket controller units. Besides changing the internal wiring harness, these years have to have the solenoids inside changed over. Figure $200-$300 while doing a rebuild to get that done.
1994 has the modern solenoids and wiring harness already installed. It is also the last year of the mechanical rod shift linkage.
1995+ has the cable shift linkage and bosses on the side of the transmission to hold the GM reverse light/neutral safety switch housing. They moved it from the column in 1995 when they added airbags.
Basically, anyone with a 1993 or older truck looking for a replacement needs to find a 1993 or older to allow it to plug in and work. Anyone with a 1995 and newer truck needs a 1995 and newer to hook up the shifters and wiring. That leaves 1994 as a unicorn model. It will only bolt without modifications into a stock 1994 or be used for clean slate swaps like I am doing. I know the shifter switching from linkage to cable can be gotten around. However, there are no mounts in the side of the 1994 to take the neutral safety switch and from what I found, the shaft itself is different and needs to be replaced if used on a 1995 or newer.
I have a 2wd 1992 4L80E that came with all the parts from Warthog. I have traded in the last few months for a proper aluminum 4x4 4L80E transfer case mount and output shaft. Then I started calling transmission shops. Since I was needing a new internal wiring harness and solenoids replaced, plus a rebuild. Several told me they couldn't convert to 4x4 and they got hung up on as being idiots. The few remaining said $2,000 plus anything they find wrong inside. I did find a retired guy referred to me by several people who said it shouldn't be more than $1,200 and about a week to do the work.
That is why I thought it was a scam when I found a craigslist add for a 4x4 1994 at only $400 last weekend. I texted the guy and he kept writing back that it was a good unit just pulled from a 6.5 TD truck with a cracked block. He also kept asking what year truck I had. 1987 had him confused. He finally gave me his address which was 135 miles away. The Blue Bomber and I took a road trip last Monday to find a guy with a single bay metal building in his back yard. His wife has a regular job, he takes a single vehicle apart putting everything online for sale and watches the kids. He scraps what is left to start on another one. He knew exactly what he had and why it wouldn't bring normal prices. I did get to look at the cracked #8 cylinder wall, dump transmission fluid which was the proper color with the proper feel and smell from the cooler, lines and converter. Being a diesel converter which came with the 4L80E was nice as well.
He didn't have the flywheel cover though. He said it wasn't on the truck when he got it. Anyone have one of the aluminum 4L80E flywheel covers gathering dust they want to get rid of cheap?
I really thought about even mentioning the 1994 4L80E difference last night. Yes, I have what I need for this project but I still have a few M1009's that might want one someday and I don't want the prices to go high on them too. However, with several hundred thousand made in 1994, I doubt this internet site will corner the market on them enough to drive the price up. Enjoy the knowledge.

Thanks for the refresher, I did already know about most of what you posted.
Had forgotten about the 94 (last of rod linkage).
I have 8-10 of the 4l80's ranging in years from 91-01, even have a couple of the 91 only 4l80/205's.
Truck in my sig, got a complete 97 350/4l80 swap, used a 2wd 4l80, figure 8 205 adapter to 205.

Please keep posting pics of updates to your burb. Love to build one but have too many other projects.

Again great work !

Edit: I'll look to see if I have any loose dust covers.

 

[richingalveston]

'There is also a special long tube adaptor that has to be used on that rear line or the transmission will die very quick'.

do you have more info on this. I have the rear oiler version and I just extended my existing lines to the tranny.

I am in the process of many changes which include a trans cooler and new flex lines. I need to know if this is a part I need to add.

Thanks
Rich

 

[86m1028]

'There is also a special long tube adaptor that has to be used on that rear line or the transmission will die very quick'.
do you have more info on this. I have the rear oiler version and I just extended my existing lines to the tranny.
I am in the process of many changes which include a trans cooler and new flex lines. I need to know if this is a part I need to add.
Thanks
Rich

Rich
Are you talking about the rear output bushing area ?
There is a small plug that is different between 2wd & 4wd trans.
Its for fluid access to the output bushing.
The 2wd version has a hole for fluid to pass thru, 4wd one hole is plugged.

If not please explain.

 

[richingalveston]

no, I know about the hole in the output area, I do not have mine plugged. I did a two wheel to 4 wheel conversion so I still have the hole. My tranny connects to an ORD magnum planetary drive which has a good front seal so I have had no issues so far. IF I was connecting to the t-case directly, it might be an issue.

no I was asking about the "special long tube adaptor" because I know nothing about it.

I assume it is part of the cooling line system.

 

[86m1028]

no, I know about the hole in the output area, I do not have mine plugged. I did a two wheel to 4 wheel conversion so I still have the hole. My tranny connects to an ORD magnum planetary drive which has a good front seal so I have had no issues so far. IF I was connecting to the t-case directly, it might be an issue.
no I was asking about the "special long tube adaptor" because I know nothing about it.I assume it is part of the cooling line system.

Rich
Thanks, I went back & read what he was talking about.
Ive never heard of the "long tube adapter"
Looks like I've got more research to do.
Thanks for posting.

 

[Barrman]

Rich,
The adaptor the line screws to has to have some tubing inside the transmission. Here is a thread from another forum with pictures and everything:

http://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...ilure-beware-rear-cooler-line-fitting-492487/


Sorry if I didn't describe it very well above.

 

[richingalveston]

Ok, I believe I have that but I will check to make sure when I get back to my line work.

I know there are two different ones, the longer one is about 1 1/2 inches longer than the shorter one and it sticks into the tranny so you really cannot tell the difference from the outside.
So apparently the longer one goes in the rear and short one in front.

What I am looking for are the correct fittings to connect AN fittings to instead of the snap in fitting. For some reason I don't like how the line just snaps in with nothing to retain it.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Barrman]

I need to do the AN fitting thing too. It seems the transmission case is straight threads, not NPT tapered. So if you replace the fittings on the case, be aware.

I was going to do the stock TH400 metal lines to the front then add a cooler to the return from the radiator. Then I got to looking at my 30 year old radiator and my selection of other 30 year old radiators. The thought of "get a new radiator" keeps popping in to my head. If I go that route, then I can get one with the transmission cooler tank on the passenger side of the truck. (I already have an oil cooler mounted in front of the condenser.) Or, just get a radiator for a manual and just run a transmission cooler in the front. The only thing I can find anywhere for keeping the fluid going through the radiator is for extreme cold operation. We don't have that here.

I removed the metal lines this morning when I had to drop the transmission back out to put the oil fill tube in. I am stuck with AN only now.

 

[86m1028]

I need to do the AN fitting thing too. It seems the transmission case is straight threads, not NPT tapered. So if you replace the fittings on the case, be aware.

I was going to do the stock TH400 metal lines to the front then add a cooler to the return from the radiator. Then I got to looking at my 30 year old radiator and my selection of other 30 year old radiators. The thought of "get a new radiator" keeps popping in to my head. If I go that route, then I can get one with the transmission cooler tank on the passenger side of the truck. (I already have an oil cooler mounted in front of the condenser.) Or, just get a radiator for a manual and just run a transmission cooler in the front. The only thing I can find anywhere for keeping the fluid going through the radiator is for extreme cold operation. We don't have that here.
I removed the metal lines this morning when I had to drop the transmission back out to put the oil fill tube in. I am stuck with AN only now.

Barrman
Have you considered going with larger lines ?
I know the earlier lines were 5/16 then 3/8 & I believe the current lines are 1/2in now.