M1008 Starter problems

[royalflush55]

Wilson also has the isolated ground reman Delco alternators.

 

[Commander5993]

Wilson also has the isolated ground reman Delco alternators.

I didn't know anyone made the isolated ground reman's. If I end up having to buy an alternator, I'd rather have one of theirs than the cheap aftermarket one's and then have to modify it. I think that is what these are.

 

[Commander5993]

Found on another thread the Wilson Alternator part number is # 90-01-4277

FPC has them for $162 +$47 core charge. https://www.filterspro.com/WILSON-90-01-4277_p_1813699.html

I emailed them about how to get my core charge back on my starter. There wasn't any shipping label or any core return information in the box my starter came in. I'm have the feeling I may just be stuck with paying the core charge.

 

[Mullaney]

Well, got the truck started today. Fired right up, no noise from the starter. Tried a few times today, and could hear the starter kickout as soon as I let off the key. So I guess there is no need for any shims. The "low coolant" light is also no longer flickering, and the coolant temperature light does not glow at startup or light up when engine is warm. So apparently both of those issues were bad sensors.

I let the truck run and come up to temp, could feel the upper coolant hose get warm and a little bit of steam was coming off the coolant sitting in the funnel, so the thermostat is opening and coolant circulating. I didn't see any more air bubbling up into the funnel, I can't remember what they are called but back a few years ago I bought one of those funnels that have adapters that connect where the radiator cap goes so you can burp the system while the engine is running and it lets more coolant in to replace it. I refilled the coolant yesterday, and just let it sit overnight with the funnel filled with coolant, seems like all the air is out but I'm still going to let it sit tonight in case any more air comes out as the engine goes back to cold.

BUT Now... the alternator #2 light is flickering. Its done this for sometime, but only at start up. I figured the belt was "cold" as it would quit after a couple minutes. But in the last couple months, I had noticed a slight squealing noise at times, figured it might be a bearing. Now that squealing is much worse and the light continues to flicker even after engine is fully warm. If I rev up the engine it will stop flickering and the squealing seems to go away, but both return at idle . I guess a bearing could eventually put enough drag on the alternator to pull the voltage down and trigger the light??

The thing is I'm not certain that the squealing is coming from one of the alternators. I tried listening from both sides of the truck, but I'm not sure. I don't have a mechanics stethoscope to pinpoint it. The alternator case by the upper radiator hose did feel slightly warmer than the other one, and I don't think the heat was coming from the hose as it was barely warm at the time.

I'll have to look up to see which is Alt #1 and Alt #2. Hate to replace an alternator and it not be the issue. I could rebuild it, but never done that before either but I'm sure there are threads about that here in the forums.

I also wonder if it could be something else running on the same belt that is going bad and slowing the belt enough to trigger the alt 2 light. I sure hope its not the water pump. Anyone have any input?

Thanks All

.
The poor mans stethoscope is an old broom handle.

Round end to your ear and press it against the thing you want to hear.
It isn't perfect - but it is a cheap add-on for every toolbox.

.

 

[Commander5993]

.
The poor mans stethoscope is an old broom handle.

Round end to your ear and press it against the thing you want to hear.
It isn't perfect - but it is a cheap add-on for every toolbox.

.

I like it! will try today

 

[WWRD99]

I like it! will try today

I use a long screwdriver or a prybar and cup the end with my hand to make a speaker that finds all kinds of noises especially when you hit a fan blade or belt...haven't lost any parts off me yet doing that but probably will someday. As far as the belt goes if the adjusting loop is maxed out, the belt is stretched out as far as it can go...I just did the belts in my blazer and used part number 15570 and 15485 for the alterenantors and 15450 for the power steering...these are dayco numbers so should cross to any other manufacturer if you don't have them by you. The alt 1 is super tight but it'll roll on and give tons of loop left in the adjusting. Could have a bad diode in the alternator too...but get the belt right first and see if that changes.

 

[ezgn]

Found on another thread the Wilson Alternator part number is # 90-01-4277

FPC has them for $162 +$47 core charge. https://www.filterspro.com/WILSON-90-01-4277_p_1813699.html

I emailed them about how to get my core charge back on my starter. There wasn't any shipping label or any core return information in the box my starter came in. I'm have the feeling I may just be stuck with paying the core charge.

Here is one to check out.https://www.blowermotorsplus.com/400_12416_Alternator_12V_100A_Delco_27SI_New_p/400-12416.htm

 

[Commander5993]

I use a long screwdriver or a prybar and cup the end with my hand to make a speaker that finds all kinds of noises especially when you hit a fan blade or belt...haven't lost any parts off me yet doing that but probably will someday. As far as the belt goes if the adjusting loop is maxed out, the belt is stretched out as far as it can go...I just did the belts in my blazer and used part number 15570 and 15485 for the alterenantors and 15450 for the power steering...these are dayco numbers so should cross to any other manufacturer if you don't have them by you. The alt 1 is super tight but it'll roll on and give tons of loop left in the adjusting. Could have a bad diode in the alternator too...but get the belt right first and see if that changes.

Thanks for the belt numbers. It could be a belt, its been a while since I replaced them and they are adjusted out toward the end of the range. I'll definitely check this out first.

This morning I tested the alternators, drives side tested fine. Passengers side #2 light was on, and when I tested it wasn't putting out anything... at first. I revved the engine and the light went out, and then it tested fine. I know this is somewhat normal, and I've seen the light do this before. But yesterday the light was fluttering on and off, even after reving engine. However, I decided to the truck to town today, only about 8 miles one way. And the alt #2 light was off the whole time, no blimping or etc. Only on when first starting engine, then off just as it should be. So it may be a belt or something else. I'm going to check the belts and I'll probably replace them as it wouldn't hurt anyway. I'm also going to check all the connections, I didn't see any corrosion anywhere, but I'm going to go through the wires and plugs just to be sure.

Using a long screwdriver/pry bar may work for finding that squeak too, just gotta keep it outta that fan! That could make for a very bad day, and I've had far too many of those already!

 

[Commander5993]

Here is one to check out.https://www.blowermotorsplus.com/400_12416_Alternator_12V_100A_Delco_27SI_New_p/400-12416.htm

Nice! From what I'm reading, those are Brand New Delco brand alternators? And they don't even have a core charge, but they do charge $41 for shipping. Still cheaper than FPC by the time you add in the core charge. If I do end up needing an alternator, I may order this place. Thanks for the Link

I checked with my local auto parts store today, they wanted $261 for a Wilson! An extra $100 for what I can order it online. They're still a good parts store, I did pick up an oil plug and stuff today. But I'll order an alternator online if I need it.

 

[nyoffroad]

.
The poor mans stethoscope is an old broom handle.

Round end to your ear and press it against the thing you want to hear.
It isn't perfect - but it is a cheap add-on for every toolbox.

.

Or a very long screwdriver, works great.
BTW I think the squeal is belt adjustment, just my .02

 

[royalflush55]

Here is one to check out.https://www.blowermotorsplus.com/400_12416_Alternator_12V_100A_Delco_27SI_New_p/400-12416.htm

Looks like knock off Delco. Be careful!!

 

[Commander5993]

ok, here is the update. I started the truck up this morning to pull it back into my garage and it didn't start on the first try. Second try it did start but cylinders were hitting hard and had a good amount of white smoke blowing out the tailpipes, especially on drivers side. I gave it some gas, and it started leveling out and the smoke went away. It was about 50F this morning, so I knew I now also had a glow plug issue in addition to the other stuff.

Got it into my garage, looked at the belts and such. They are not really worn as they probably have less than 10k on them, but I last replaced them about ten years ago. So I'm figuring maybe they are just getting stiff with age... I'm only 40, but with some of the injuries I've had I can relate
I did have a little bit of adjustment room on the passenger side alt, so I tightened it up a bit. Still had the squeaking noise, sprayed some CRC belt conditioning on there just to see if it made any difference. The squeaking seemed to lessen but then returned quickly. So I'm going to order all new belts that WWRD99 suggested and replace them as they need it anyway, whether or not that's my squeaking noise I'm still not sure.

Also the alternator light began blipping again, could be from belt slipping. But honestly I still think it is an alternator bearing... at least I hope its the alternator and not the water pump. I tried the "screwdriver trick" with my long pry bar... being careful to keep it away from the belt and fan... Listened to both alts, power steering pump, and water pump. Heard a lot of engine noise, but couldn't really discern the squeaking.

Since I couldn't do anything else on that front, while the engine was still warm I pulled the oil plug and filter and let it drain. And then moved on to the GP's. I tested the GP solenoid, had voltage where it should, had 12v at the plugs when ign was on and GP Light was on. So I pulled all the plugs and tested each one, found 3 bad plugs. I knew I had several old plugs that I had kept for the "just in case" since they tested good the last time I changed them. So I went to get those in a box I stored all my CUCV parts in and found them... plus I found a shiny new set of AC Delco 60G plugs Installed all the new plugs, starts good now, only a little smoke for a few seconds when it first starts which is normal. So GP issue was sorted.

When I was looking for my GPs in my CUCV parts box, I also found that I have what appears to be two full alternator rebuild kits Keep finding out about more and more things that I didn't even know I forgot about after my head injury At least in this case it was some good things.

In any case, when I get the new belts I'm going to pull the alternator off and rebuild it. Haven't done one before, but I did a bit of searching here on SS and from what I gather it seems to be straight forward. Pretty much pulling all the old parts and replace with new parts. I think I still have enough witts to do that.

Installed new oil filter and refilled oil, started good and runs fine except for the squeaking.

Next thing is figuring out why my fuel gauge has been getting farther and farther away from "accurate". I want to get that fixed as I forgot about the gauge issue on the first long-er trip I took with the truck back some months ago to pick up a wood stove, and came WAY too close to running out of fuel and didn't even realize it until I had already pulled off at a gas station because the engine "didn't sound right". I made a few posts about that on a related thread I found here: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threa...r-fuel-tank-sending-unit.209096/#post-2491656

So I started off with fixing my "deuce" air horn that I put on this truck back about 5 years ago, and planning to do an oil change and other maintenance check items... and ended up finding all these other things LoL. All in all, checking some things off the list at least. Want to get everything back to full working order.

 

[ezgn]

ok, here is the update. I started the truck up this morning to pull it back into my garage and it didn't start on the first try. Second try it did start but cylinders were hitting hard and had a good amount of white smoke blowing out the tailpipes, especially on drivers side. I gave it some gas, and it started leveling out and the smoke went away. It was about 50F this morning, so I knew I now also had a glow plug issue in addition to the other stuff.

Got it into my garage, looked at the belts and such. They are not really worn as they probably have less than 10k on them, but I last replaced them about ten years ago. So I'm figuring maybe they are just getting stiff with age... I'm only 40, but with some of the injuries I've had I can relate
I did have a little bit of adjustment room on the passenger side alt, so I tightened it up a bit. Still had the squeaking noise, sprayed some CRC belt conditioning on there just to see if it made any difference. The squeaking seemed to lessen but then returned quickly. So I'm going to order all new belts that WWRD99 suggested and replace them as they need it anyway, whether or not that's my squeaking noise I'm still not sure.

Also the alternator light began blipping again, could be from belt slipping. But honestly I still think it is an alternator bearing... at least I hope its the alternator and not the water pump. I tried the "screwdriver trick" with my long pry bar... being careful to keep it away from the belt and fan... Listened to both alts, power steering pump, and water pump. Heard a lot of engine noise, but couldn't really discern the squeaking.

Since I couldn't do anything else on that front, while the engine was still warm I pulled the oil plug and filter and let it drain. And then moved on to the GP's. I tested the GP solenoid, had voltage where it should, had 12v at the plugs when ign was on and GP Light was on. So I pulled all the plugs and tested each one, found 3 bad plugs. I knew I had several old plugs that I had kept for the "just in case" since they tested good the last time I changed them. So I went to get those in a box I stored all my CUCV parts in and found them... plus I found a shiny new set of AC Delco 60G plugs Installed all the new plugs, starts good now, only a little smoke for a few seconds when it first starts which is normal. So GP issue was sorted.

When I was looking for my GPs in my CUCV parts box, I also found that I have what appears to be two full alternator rebuild kits Keep finding out about more and more things that I didn't even know I forgot about after my head injury At least in this case it was some good things.

In any case, when I get the new belts I'm going to pull the alternator off and rebuild it. Haven't done one before, but I did a bit of searching here on SS and from what I gather it seems to be straight forward. Pretty much pulling all the old parts and replace with new parts. I think I still have enough witts to do that.

Installed new oil filter and refilled oil, started good and runs fine except for the squeaking.

Next thing is figuring out why my fuel gauge has been getting farther and farther away from "accurate". I want to get that fixed as I forgot about the gauge issue on the first long-er trip I took with the truck back some months ago to pick up a wood stove, and came WAY too close to running out of fuel and didn't even realize it until I had already pulled off at a gas station because the engine "didn't sound right". I made a few posts about that on a related thread I found here: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threa...r-fuel-tank-sending-unit.209096/#post-2491656

So I started off with fixing my "deuce" air horn that I put on this truck back about 5 years ago, and planning to do an oil change and other maintenance check items... and ended up finding all these other things LoL. All in all, checking some things off the list at least. Want to get everything back to full working order.

Send that knife in to Cold Steel for free sharpening.https://www.coldsteel.com/sharpening/

 

[87cr250r]

Get some stones form DMT. Knives always need sharpening. Once you get your knives dialed and your skills in practice in you can then start to hone your whet stone skills on the 6000 grit. You can go even further with the leather strop but I have never felt the need.

Sharp knives and chisels are amazing.

 

[Commander5993]

Send that knife in to Cold Steel for free sharpening.https://www.coldsteel.com/sharpening/

spotted my EDC knife. Been a good one, seen a lot of use over the past 12 years or so, I think thats how long its been since I bought it. I lost it for about a year once, and a month or so just recently... found it in the truck this last time. But it always turns back up. And yeah I need to sharpen it for sure. I did not know that Cold Steel had a free sharpening service. Learn all kinds of good info on here
I don't know why I didn't think to send it in to have the pocket clip screws fixed when they stripped out several years ago. I fixed it but they could have done a better job. They probably would have replaced the scales.

 

[Commander5993]

Get some stones form DMT. Knives always need sharpening. Once you get your knives dialed and your skills in practice in you can then start to hone your whet stone skills on the 6000 grit. You can go even further with the leather strop but I have never felt the need.

Sharp knives and chisels are amazing.

I have a 3 set of diamond stones from Smiths, they've been pretty good. I also have a black 8000 grit? stone, and a leather strop that I made with polishing compounds. I don't use the black stone or the strop on anything but one knife really. This Cold Steel sees too much daily use to stay sharp long as it is. I'm not great at sharpening, but can get most knives fairly decent. I need to take the time to sharpen my chisels, and my "newest" hand planer I am in the middle of restoring. I've seen someone who sharpens their hand planers so perfect, it literally looked like it shaved off a full unbroken 2" wide sheet of paper from a board. ridiculously sharp.

 

[ezgn]

spotted my EDC knife. Been a good one, seen a lot of use over the past 12 years or so, I think thats how long its been since I bought it. I lost it for about a year once, and a month or so just recently... found it in the truck this last time. But it always turns back up. And yeah I need to sharpen it for sure. I did not know that Cold Steel had a free sharpening service. Learn all kinds of good info on here
I don't know why I didn't think to send it in to have the pocket clip screws fixed when they stripped out several years ago. I fixed it but they could have done a better job. They probably would have replaced the scales.

Cold Steel is in northern Texas closer to the Oklahoma border, not that far from where you live.

 

[Commander5993]

hey all, while I'm waiting on belts and fuel sending etc which still won't be in until tuesday. I thought I'd go ahead and look at the passenger's side alternator.

when I started unbolting it, I was looking at the belt. it looks like it's running true, but the bottom alternator bracket sure seems like it tilted to me.

also the top bracket has a weld bead across the end, maybe it was made that way. just thought I would post a couple.photos and see what you guys think. posting from phone


(disregard wires. tried to pull plug by holding release, but wires came out instead. already have a replacement though)



It look "bent" to me, I expected the bolt to be bent when I got it out. but it's not.







weld bead supposed to be there at adjustment end of bracket?

 

[Commander5993]

took alt apart, every looks fairly clean. checked for play in front sealed bearing and resr needle bearing. they seem to roll smoothly and I can't feel any play just rolling them by hand. the rear needle bearing turns easier than the new one that I found in the alt rebuild kits I found the other day.






I did find that the front bearing hold down was different the the new one. old one is just flat stamped steel, new one is raised with what looks like a felt liner.




also the new kit had 3 bushings of different thicknesses. but in the alternator I only found one thin bushing on the outside of the front case between front bearing and a washer behind fan blades.

 

[Commander5993]

something about how this alternator was assembled just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe im wrong ,but it would seem like there should be a bushing on the front and rear shaft where they contact the bearing surfaces. rear had no bushing. and front had one but only on outside front housing.

Also by the time you get the fan and pully on the front shaft, there just doesn't seem to be enough room to have a bushing on the inside between shaft and bearing. at least with the bushings in the kit I have, which is listed on the hardware package as being for the 27si.

and the one bushing that was on the alternator (which my kit does not have one at that size and thickness) it has to have it on the front side of case between bearing and fan, or else the fan would be rubbing the front housing .



looked online and can't come up with a good diagram or even a rebuild video.

I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it.... Or if the top alt bracket was modified by cutting it and welding back together to "extend it" as that is what it looks like to me, a missing or wrong bushings maybe why they couldn't get the pulley out "far enough" to allow the belt to line up with engine pulleys.

but if there were missing bushings, I would also expect some damage inside the alternator which I don't see.

at this moment if I had the money I think I'd buy two Wilson Delco remans, replace the upper bracket and maybe the lower bracket and hardware too. and be done with it...