M1028 Bad U-Joint

[Corvette1974]

Hello.

About 2 years and 7500 miles ago, I had a new driveshaft built with greaseable U joints for my M1028. It eliminated my driveline vibration issue I had beforehand, as there was a dent in the driveshaft. All was good until probably 3 months ago when a driveline vibration returned. I wanted to eliminate this so I was going to try rotating the driveshaft. Upon removal of the rear U joint straps, I noticed that the caps that are strapped to the axle yoke are fine, but the caps that are part of the driveshaft (pressed in) were extremely crunchy, with obvious "grind" spots, not a smooth motion. The front U joint (TC side) is fine.

Clearly I need a new Ujoint and that should eliminate the vibration but I have a few concerns. What could have caused this failure? I always greased it at every oil change (3000 miles) with synthetic moly grease. It also lived a relatively easy life, no huge loads or major off roading. I was thinking that maybe grease just didn't get to those caps, because I greased it when it was off and on the next drive it seemed to lessen the vibration.

I called the place that built it to see if they would warrant it, but they said they wouldn't. Kind of a loss on that end.

I'm going to replace it, but are there any things I should be aware of in changing it? And should I go greaseable or sealed this time around?

Sorry for the huge amount of questions, I'm at a loss as to why this U joint went bad when there are cars with 200k on the original U joints with no greasing haha

Will

 

[doghead]

It may have been installed incorrectly(not centered or one ear bent slightly).

Do it your self and be sure there is no bind before installing.

You can fine tune the tension, with a hammer and a correctly placed blow.

 

[Blake]

For what it's worth, I don't think moly grease is optimum for needle bearing u joints.

 

[Corvette1974]

It may have been installed incorrectly(not centered or one ear bent slightly).

Do it your self and be sure there is no bind before installing.

You can fine tune the tension, with a hammer and a correctly placed blow.

I installed the driveshaft. It seemed fine when I installed it. The ears on the diff yoke aren't messed up, the U joint seats no problem. And doesn't it just "seat" like there no adjustment at least that I'm aware of. So I should make sure it slips in the yoke without any friction and then tap it in to make sure it's seated?

For what it's worth, I don't think moly grease is optimum for needle bearing u joints.

I know where you're coming from. I did research and the general consensus was that under 3% moly was fine for U joints. And I'm pretty sure the grease says it is ok for U joints. All of the others are fine.

Like I said the axle side of the joint is fine perfectly smooth, the driveshaft side is the notchy side. Can the issues you suggested cause that side to fail?

 

[Corvette1974]

Also is there a suggested part number for a greaseable/non greaseable (whatever you recommend)? I know the TM one is incorrect, and it is a 1350 Spicer. But a specific part number would be nice.

Will

 

[Corvette1974]

Oh I'm not sure if this makes a difference or if this is acceptable, but I felt my axle pinion and twisted it. It has a good inch and a half of play before it catches either way. Is that ok for a 14 bolt? I have no problems with the axle, no sounds or issues. You can definitely feel it taking up slack when shifting from drive to reverse. Did this kill the joint, and is my axle dying?

 

[scottladdy]

Also is there a suggested part number for a greaseable/non greaseable (whatever you recommend)? I know the TM one is incorrect, and it is a 1350 Spicer. But a specific part number would be nice.

Will

I personally go with non-greasable. Seals are generally better. A couple of options:

http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c134_1350_series...outside..._3_58_x_3_58_inches.html

I went with these and they are fine so far:

https://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-1805-5-1350x-dana-spicer-1350-non-greasable-u-joint-5-799x.aspx

 

[Corvette1974]

I personally go with non-greasable. Seals are generally better. A couple of options:

http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c134_1350_series...outside..._3_58_x_3_58_inches.html

I went with these and they are fine so far:

https://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-1805-5-1350x-dana-spicer-1350-non-greasable-u-joint-5-799x.aspx

I think I'm going to go with a non-greaseable this time around. I'll put one of those on order and give it a shot. Hopefully I get a long lifetime out of these new U joints.

Will

 

[scottladdy]

Oh I'm not sure if this makes a difference or if this is acceptable, but I felt my axle pinion and twisted it. It has a good inch and a half of play before it catches either way. Is that ok for a 14 bolt? I have no problems with the axle, no sounds or issues. You can definitely feel it taking up slack when shifting from drive to reverse. Did this kill the joint, and is my axle dying?

The Detroit Locker causes what would usually be considered excessive play due to it's design. If I remember correctly 1/4 turn of the drive shaft is within spec, but please do double check.

 

[Corvette1974]

The Detroit Locker causes what would usually be considered excessive play due to it's design. If I remember correctly 1/4 turn of the drive shaft is within spec, but please do double check.

It's definitely the locker. This thread describes the "issue" http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?50165-14-bolt-pinion-help I completely forgot about the Detroit.

My friend's old 14 bolt FF did the same thing. My truck has no issues rear axle wise so I think it's good to go.

 

[Corvette1974]

Is this the correct strap and bolt kit for our trucks? http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p746_strap__bolt_set_for_gm_1350_series_oem_pinion_yoke.html

I would like to replace it just to start fresh.

 

[scottladdy]

Is this the correct strap and bolt kit for our trucks? http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p746_strap__bolt_set_for_gm_1350_series_oem_pinion_yoke.html

I would like to replace it just to start fresh.

I have used that part. Appears to be the genuine GM part.

Check out this page for some interesting 14 bolt info. Perform a page search for "strap" and you will see some information on aftermarket straps and their issues:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/

 

[Corvette1974]

I have used that part. Appears to be the genuine GM part.

Check out this page for some interesting 14 bolt info. Perform a page search for "strap" and you will see some information on aftermarket straps and their issues:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/

Reading it now. Lots of good info. So the part that I posted *is* the correct impossible to find part talked about?

 

[doghead]

One real benefit of a greasable joint is, you can flush out contaminants(like water).

 

[Skinny]

First off unless your ujoint a had Spicer stamped in them they are probably poor quality. It has been absolute hit or miss with ujoint quality with off brand joints. Some last forever, some make it one or two oil changes. Possible cause number one.

Did you overtighten the home straps? Most everyone including professional techs do not realize they have very low torque spec and usually call for blue loctite. Over torquing distorts the ujoint caps.

Three, if your rig is lifted you may have some angle issues. Would invest in an angle gauge to check.

I listed these in order of probable cause...good luck!

 

[Corvette1974]

Reading it now. Lots of good info. So the part that I posted *is* the correct impossible to find part talked about?

One real benefit of a greasable joint is, you can flush out contaminants(like water).

This is the reason I went with it in the first place. I'm a fan of doing maintenance, but I can also see the merit in non-serviceable U joints. I think this time around I'll use a real Spicer non-serviceable joint. I don't plan on doing any serious off roading any time soon.

First off unless your ujoint a had Spicer stamped in them they are probably poor quality. It has been absolute hit or miss with ujoint quality with off brand joints. Some last forever, some make it one or two oil changes. Possible cause number one.

Did you overtighten the home straps? Most everyone including professional techs do not realize they have very low torque spec and usually call for blue loctite. Over torquing distorts the ujoint caps.

Three, if your rig is lifted you may have some angle issues. Would invest in an angle gauge to check.

I listed these in order of probable cause...good luck!

I don't think they were Spicer. I haven't pulled it yet but it does say Made in USA on it, however I have a box that the driveshaft builder gave me and it is a Neapco kit. I'll let you know when I pull it. Definitely going real Spicer this time around.

Truck is 100% stock, no lift or tire changes. The only times I've gone off roading was pretty minor and I greased the truck before and after each excursion. The truck is my families "putt around" vehicle and I'm restoring it so it probably wont be off roaded again in any serious manner.

When installing I used blue locktite, but not a torque wrench. I only used a small wrench that fit the bolt, it was like maybe 5 inches long. I couldn't get that much torque out of that. But again, it wasn't the strapped caps that failed it was the DS caps. Not sure if that means anything.

I'd going to get that new strap kit, do you know what the torque value is for the bolts?

 

[zout]

I'll go back to your original post - a moly grease ?
You need a high impact - non dispersal grease like a high tac grease that will not impact out.

Take a dab of your grease and stick it in the palm of your hand and clap your hands together - if that grease gets thrown out its the wrong grease aside from being a high temp grease.
A high tac grease will stay sticky in your palms and will not impact out.

All the other issues above aside from all of just this point - its also a grease you want for your kingpins - spring bushings etc. Those are not high heat area's but the cushion effects from this grease is what you want - it will not pound out. Stay on your grease interval the same as you have done. In my opinion you have been using the wrong application for that grease.

 

[scottladdy]

I'd going to get that new strap kit, do you know what the torque value is for the bolts?

-20 page 6-9. 25-30 lb. ft

 

[Corvette1974]

I'll go back to your original post - a moly grease ?
You need a high impact - non dispersal grease like a high tac grease that will not impact out.

Take a dab of your grease and stick it in the palm of your hand and clap your hands together - if that grease gets thrown out its the wrong grease aside from being a high temp grease.
A high tac grease will stay sticky in your palms and will not impact out.

All the other issues above aside from all of just this point - its also a grease you want for your kingpins - spring bushings etc. Those are not high heat area's but the cushion effects from this grease is what you want - it will not pound out. Stay on your grease interval the same as you have done. In my opinion you have been using the wrong application for that grease.

I hear what you're saying about the non dispersal / stickiness of the grease. It isn't very sticky compared to a traditional red grease. I did some research into the grease issue, but I'll give some red grease a try this time around. I'm still going to get a non serviceable unit, but for the rest of the system I'll switch it up.

-20 page 6-9. 25-30 lb. ft

10-4 thanks for the info.

 

[zout]

Your welcome - not bragging but I am a fleet manager for a major trucking co here in Ga - we cover the full US - when I took over the fleet they had a major issue with driveline failure and kingpins - I literally gave the 4 55 gallons drums of chit grease away and got in High Tack Grease - it comes in many names and colors as well - but we have had no failures of lube in over 8 years.

When you go to grease it will take LESS and also push out the old and hangs in there - grease never hurt anything and I never saw a failure from over greasing - I have seen failure from hitting areas with 120 pressurized grease on area's that do not take that pressure or volume @slack adjusters and S cam bushing - you will shove the seal out of the S cam into the brake drum housing - but that is not your situation.

You will NOT be disappointed.