M105 axle assembly to accommodate dish-out combat wheels

[drivebymashing]

The isuzu wheels dualed are 18 3/4 wide edge of tire to the other edge of the second tire. Hope this helps. That's a 215/85/16

 

[tobyS]

Yes DBM, that means half the distance is under 10" and thus they will be just under the legal limit of 8'6". I have not wrapped my head around what G said in the last post. Seems there are 2 styles of brake drums and one may interfere with these Isuzu 16" budd's while the other won't. Gentry plans on taking his drums off, but I hope he try's with them on first.

 

[drivebymashing]

Im going to take my drums off too. But ill try it first with drums on. I really want to keep the military look. But if i paint the wheels and put an offroad looking tire on it. It will be fine I think.

 

[gringeltaube]

............ Seems there are 2 styles of brake drums and one may interfere with these Isuzu 16" budd's while the other won't. .

Yes, in fact. It's actually the M105-A1 vs. M105-A2 brakes. (not what I first wrote in post #19, which I have just edited)

TM 9-2330-213-14&P / OCT-1990 shows the differences quite clearly...

 

[drivebymashing]

I'm pretty sure my trailed is an a1. 16 inch Isuzu wheel hits drum

 

[gringeltaube]

Then the TM is not correct...(?) Because according to the book, the A1 has the same hub & drum assembly as the M35. But what can be seen in your picture is the hub of the A2 model.

 

[drivebymashing]

There was no data plate. The trailer has the really old looking tail lights and big wheel landing leg. It had one sticker saying it was repaired in 71. I don't know much about it.

 

[drivebymashing]

True I remember reading the a2 had the drum that removable without removing hub. This one has that . So when was the first a2 introduced?

 

[gringeltaube]

True I remember reading the a2 had the drum that removable without removing hub. This one has that...

They all have that...

The point here is that the A2 hubs are "shorter" so to speak, and the A2 drums protrude further outwards, so your Isuzu wheel doesn't fit there... But the same 16" wheel may work on the early (A1 ??) - style hub & drum. That is, if the wheel backspace is 8" or less...

 

[drivebymashing]

Ok I understand. I'm removing the brakes anyways. Just test fitting.

 

[tobyS]

Then the TM is not correct...(?) Because according to the book, the A1 has the same hub & drum assembly as the M35. But what can be seen in your picture is the hub of the A2 model.

Back to dish out wheel use. Instead of machining off the flange, as I proposed, would the hub from the deuce fit our 105 axle? "Reversed" of course?

I go to the TM that G has posted and find the bearing numbers on each A1 and A2. Unfortunately they don't mean much to me. The A1 has 702, 704 and 706, both inner and outer the same while the A2 has 701,711, 713, 714, 715 again inner and outer the same. At this point I don't understand the bearing numbers, only observing they are different. Now to find deuce bearings.

 

[gringeltaube]

Back to dish out wheel use. Instead of machining off the flange, as I proposed, would the hub from the deuce fit our 105 axle? "Reversed" of course?

You mean on the A2 axle... Good question; exactly what I want to do. (I have plenty of Deuce parts laying around - plus a few NOS M149 axles; just the axles with naked spindles, no hubs, no brakes.) Bearings shouldn't be a problem, but I'm sure I'll need a custom sleeve in order to use the M35 oil seal. Definitely need to take some measurements and do some studying/drawing...

I go to the TM that G has posted and find the bearing numbers on each A1 and A2. Unfortunately they don't mean much to me. The A1 has 702, 704 and 706, both inner and outer the same while the A2 has 701,711, 713, 714, 715 again inner and outer the same. At this point I don't understand the bearing numbers, only observing they are different. Now to find deuce bearings.

Bearing numbers for the Deuce are 3994/3920 inner and 392/3920 outer. The M105A2 takes 39590/39520, both inner and outer.
Also check out this thread...

 

[tobyS]

Okay, using those numbers I see all three have 4.375" outer diameter but they vary for the inside diameter. The deuce inner is 2.625" and outer is 2.4375". The M105A2 is 2.625 inside diameter both inner and outer. Bearing widths are the same.

So, while not considering the width of the bearings on the axles and hubs, to use the deuce hub on the M105 axle, considering bearings OD and ID and width of the bearing only, the M35 bearings need pulled and the M105A2 axle bearings need installed in the deuce hub.

 

[gentrysgarage]

psst .......again i state look at the M135/211 hubs...they take the 39590 bearings

 

[tobyS]

If they take the 39590, they are 4.4375" OD, same as the M105A2 hub and the M35, they are likely to interchange, if you use the M105A2 bearings. Clearly the axles have different diameters...no problem.

Now the question for both the M35 and M135/211 hubs and the M105A2 hubs, is the spacing of the bearings. We need the inner race to inner part of the outer race dimensions on all of the hubs, shoulder to shoulder. That is not something a TM will give us. I hope you have some apart G.

If the M35 and 105A2 have the same bearing spacing, which I bet they do, then they should interchange if you use the bearings from the 105A2. That would also open up the use of the M105A2 hub on a deuce axle. Hmmmm.

Now the issue is drum spacing for proper brake shoe and drum alignment, for preserving working brakes. Where would a "flipped" deuce hub's drake drum mount in relation to the shoes and brake mechanism?

 

[rustystud]

If they take the 39590, they are 4.4375" OD, same as the M105A2 hub and the M35, they are likely to interchange, if you use the M105A2 bearings. Clearly the axles have different diameters...no problem.

Now the question for both the M35 and M135/211 hubs and the M105A2 hubs, is the spacing of the bearings. We need the inner race to inner part of the outer race dimensions on all of the hubs, shoulder to shoulder. That is not something a TM will give us. I hope you have some apart G.

If the M35 and 105A2 have the same bearing spacing, which I bet they do, then they should interchange if you use the bearings from the 105A2. That would also open up the use of the M105A2 hub on a deuce axle. Hmmmm.

Now the issue is drum spacing for proper brake shoe and drum alignment, for preserving working brakes. Where would a "flipped" deuce hub's drake drum mount in relation to the shoes and brake mechanism?

Wouldn't that also allow using the larger bearing for a M35 hub flip instead of the smaller weaker bearing there now ? Or would the hub housing need to be bored out ? Can it be bored out ?

 

[tobyS]

Wouldn't that also allow using the larger bearing for a M35 hub flip instead of the smaller weaker bearing there now ? Or would the hub housing need to be bored out ? Can it be bored out ?

What do you mean by "the larger bearing"? Od is the same, 4.4375" on all hubs, only the ID of the bearing is changed. They should interchange with no "boring out" at all. if you are using an M105A2 axle, you must use the bearings for the M105A2 hub. If for whatever reason you put an M105A2 hub on an M35, you need the M35 axles bearings.

But note this is without confirming bearing shoulder to shoulder dimension on the M105A2 and M35 hubs (I have neither apart to measure and confirm if they are the same....my above is based on bearing OD, ID and width from the part numbers).

 

[rustystud]

What do you mean by "the larger bearing"? Od is the same, 4.4375" on all hubs, only the ID of the bearing is changed. They should interchange with no "boring out" at all. if you are using an M105A2 axle, you must use the bearings for the M105A2 hub. If for whatever reason you put an M105A2 hub on an M35, you need the M35 axles bearings.

But note this is without confirming bearing shoulder to shoulder dimension on the M105A2 and M35 hubs (I have neither apart to measure and confirm if they are the same....my above is based on bearing OD, ID and width from the part numbers).

I was referring to the smaller bearing used on the deuce hub. When you "flip" the hubs all the weight is now carried by this smaller bearing. Since the hubs are the same as the M105 trailer why can't we use the larger M105 bearing there ?

 

[tobyS]

I was referring to the smaller bearing used on the deuce hub. When you "flip" the hubs all the weight is now carried by this smaller bearing. Since the hubs are the same as the M105 trailer why can't we use the larger M105 bearing there ?

That's what I intended to say...that the M105A2 axle will require the M105A2 axle bearings put into in the deuce hub. Note I still don't have shoulder to shoulder dimensions to confirm same placement in the hub. I don't see why they would not be....but this is government stuff.

Now all I have to do is find a pair of deuce hubs.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I bet I have hubs.