M1078/M1079 for overland camper?

[LostInTheWorld]

Hello all,

I’m new posting here, but I have browsed the forum much in the past. I have also been active on other military vehicle forums for years (G503).

This write-up might be a little long, but I’d love your input on the suitability of the M1078/M1079 for my use.

---Project Background:
I am a nature and wildlife photographer. My wife and I travel quite a bit in the US and sometimes internationally. We go on backcountry photography trips in our Wrangler/Autohome setup. We like our little jeep setup, but it is definitely camping, and it only works for a few days max. We are looking to significantly expand our trip capability with more internal volume. We are planning extended (months) trips in the western US, Alaska, and Canada in the coming years, and I am looking to “build” and new vehicle for that purpose. It would basically be something we would feel comfortable living in. We use our 4x4 to access out of the way locations (often in snow, sand, mud, and flooded roads), but we don’t intentionally seek technical situations. The vehicle would need to be highway capable, but we are in no rush, so cruising along a highway at 55-60 mph is fine with us.

---Project Budget:
I think we have “enough” money set aside for this, so I think we have some good options. I would prefer a used vehicle that I would work on instead of paying more for a new vehicle. Naturally, I’d like to minimize cost, but I do have enough to cover most reasonable options. The less I spend on the vehicle, the more I can spend on the camper.

---Build Capability:
I’m a certified welder (TIG and stick), I’m a machinist (I own a small machine shop), and I’m a mechanical design engineer. I have worked in the engineering field one way or another for the last 19 years. I have built several aircraft, and I have restored a military vehicle (See attached photo of my 1943 G503). Basically, I’m set up to handle most reasonable build projects.

---The Vehicle:
I was about to purchase a used Mitsubishi Fuso diesel 4x4 ($25,000-ish), and build a fairly large overland style camper back for it. We would like a camper with enough space to live comfortably at any backcountry location of a few weeks. In reality, there aren’t that many used diesel 4x4 Fusos available in the US, and it would take a good bit of drivetrain work/mods to get it off-road capable. I can basically purchase what I want new from Earthcruiser, but they are approaching $250,000 USD (that’s well outside of my budget!!). I think I can put together a whole lot of vehicle for a small fraction of that price.

We don’t need a lot of creature comforts in the cab. My wife is also a design engineer, so we both have enjoyed the practical simplicity of the military vehicle that we owned, so I started looking at M1078 and M1079. They are a good bit bigger than I originally planned, but I like many things about them over the little civilian Fuso. For one thing, they don’t need any drivetrain modification at all. The M1079 even has a reasonable camper enclosure starting point. I think it would work well for me to spend a year or two modifying one and making it into a great long duration backcountry “RV”. I’ve seen a ton of photos on the net of LMTV and Mog campers, but I have never heard from anyone that actually owned one.

I’d love to hear from anyone that owns a M1078 or M1079. Do you think that a M1078 or M1079 could be a good base for me to work from? I have a bunch of M1078/M1079 questions.….

1) What is typical highway fuel mileage (I’ll try not to cry when I read the answer)?
2) Where do I get new tires and how much do they cost?
3) What is the tire life estimate while driving on pavement?
4) Is the pneumatic system a pain when it gets old and leaky?
5) Is the tire inflation system reliable? Worth having? Can it be removed?
6) How is engine power at high elevation?
7) Are the pneumatic brakes reliable, hard to service, etc.?
8 What is a comfortable cruising speed (are they governed to 55-60 mph)?
9) I’ve read mixed reviews of the CAT 3116 engine, how many miles can you expect?
10) Anyone know the internal dimensions of the enclosure on the M1079?
11) Anyone have a yearly cost estimate for maintenance (say putting 10,000 miles/year on it)?
12) What are the TM I should be reading?
13) Is it just too big for this application?
14) Historically, what is their general reliability?
15) Are there any common mechanical problems with them?
16) How availability are general body parts (should I also get a parts truck)?
17) On the road, how is the availability of engine/transmission parts from CAT/Allison?
18 Are the mil surplus vehicles typically mechanically trashed, or are they in usable condition?
19) Why do the ones that I see at gov surplus auction have so few miles on them?
20) Would it be difficult to register a gov surplus LMTV in California where I live (registering my G503 GPW was easy)?
21) Anyone have a M1078/M1079 in California that I can come look at?
22) Are they highway legal in all states?
23) Are there any general legal issues with owning one?
24) Can I drive it through Canada to get to Alaska without border “export” problems?

I know it's a lot of questions, but I'd love some input.

Thanks a bunch for your time!
Michael,
Central California

 

[Duckworthe]

Michael,
Welcome to the site and I hope you find all the answers you are looking for. The members on this site are very helpful and knowledgeable. I would love to post pics of my rig but the site is hard to attach pics to. Feel free to email me at duckworthe@gmail.com and I will share what I have done with mine. I absolutely love mine on and off-road.
Eric

 

[1951M1078]

Something like this ?



I have the same idea. And for me, the answer is yes. Their is a lot to learn but the guy's here are great. Down load the TM's and start reading.

Maybe if you have National Guard unit you could go to the CO and ask for some input from some drivers. That is saying the unit is or was using them.

 

[bikeman]

1) What is typical highway fuel mileage (I’ll try not to cry when I read the answer)?
2) Where do I get new tires and how much do they cost?
3) What is the tire life estimate while driving on pavement?
4) Is the pneumatic system a pain when it gets old and leaky?
5) Is the tire inflation system reliable? Worth having? Can it be removed? There have been some discussion and methods on how to 'plug' the CTIS so it is not active, or if the CTIS is malfunctioning, able to override it.
6) How is engine power at high elevation?
7) Are the pneumatic brakes reliable, hard to service, etc.?
8 What is a comfortable cruising speed (are they governed to 55-60 mph)? Last one I delivered did just fine at 55 mph, but I ran closer to 50 for most of it that I recall.
9) I’ve read mixed reviews of the CAT 3116 engine, how many miles can you expect?
10) Anyone know the internal dimensions of the enclosure on the M1079?
11) Anyone have a yearly cost estimate for maintenance (say putting 10,000 miles/year on it)?
12) What are the TM I should be reading?
13) Is it just too big for this application?
14) Historically, what is their general reliability?
15) Are there any common mechanical problems with them?
16) How availability are general body parts (should I also get a parts truck)? - you can check the want ads here, there's not a lot of available parts for the same issues they have in service, door handles, window roll up levers (the things you grab and use to raise/lower the window). Body itself is pretty much sheet metal. Lights are standard 12v (not 24v)
17) On the road, how is the availability of engine/transmission parts from CAT/Allison? - Standard Cat/Allison dealer should have or be able to get parts.
18 Are the mil surplus vehicles typically mechanically trashed, or are they in usable condition? - 50/50, but usually are usable. Had some come out as creampuffs had some come out as satan reincarnate.
19) Why do the ones that I see at gov surplus auction have so few miles on them? - no indication of usage, speedo replaced and odometer not matched, unit deployed and did not bring with due to theater equipment - unit only used on base which is short driving.
20) Would it be difficult to register a gov surplus LMTV in California where I live (registering my G503 GPW was easy)? - Definitely search, I think CA has something with GVW and it ends up being registered as a camper
21) Anyone have a M1078/M1079 in California that I can come look at?
22) Are they highway legal in all states? - Yes, you have to be legal in your state, some states may require air brake endorsement
23) Are there any general legal issues with owning one? - CA may not like them. search for threads on it.
24) Can I drive it through Canada to get to Alaska without border “export” problems?

Also check out the WarPig thread that (I'm forgetting his name) did up about a LVAD Dump truck he got and rebuilt and registered.

 

[Duckworthe]

Post edited

I just finished registering mine here in California and picked up the plates today. Here was my process. Keping in mind that it may be different in other states.


1. Built the camper box. In my case I had to show that it was in-fact a camper. That meant it had to have a bed, cook top, bathroom. That also meant, not a removable cot, Not a Colman portable camp stove, and not a porta-potty. It all had to be permanent units. Now ive heard that some have gotten away with the 5 gal bucket and trashbag in the past. But not through my DMV and CHP! Also, it has to be permanently mounted to the camper by means of welding or bolting. Just cant be easily removed.


2. I went to a mobile DMV location and they gave me the forms to fill out. I had two options, first was special construction, second was just convert to RV. CHP chooses the route to take and they chose convert to RV since I didn't build the truck but rather just the camper.

3. Filled out the forms and provided the paperwork that came with the truck, (certificate to obtain title, bill of sale, and proof that tax was paid form).

4. DMV provided a two month temp movement permit and registration so I could drive the truck for the next steps.


5. If 1998 and newer then get smog check. Mine is 1997, no smog required. Yes, Cal smogs diesels. BS


6. Get brake and lamp check completed, must receive L-91 and B-91 forms certifying the systems are working correct. Few places are certified to do this and it was $190.00. What a racket, I know!



7. Take all paperwork to this point to Ca. Highway Patrol (CHP) for VIN verification. They verify it is in-fact a camper and safe to operate on the road. They document all the paperwork into the CHP computer system and then sign off on the paperwork (reg 124 form) to DMV.


8. Final trip to DMV to receive plates and final registration.


The registration ended up going from commercial truck (over $700 a year, to $159 a year) much better. the overall size is what DMV uses to charge for RV registration, not weight.


I hope this helps someone out and if you have any questions please let me know. I am happy to help you out.
Eric

 

[tennmogger]

Hi Michael,

I have used Unimog chassis' for campers for many years and still own a U-1300L with a camper on it. Guess what, it is being replaced by an LMTV with a camper. Main reasons are that the LMTV is the most drivable 'big truck' I have had the pleasure to use, and parts procurement has been the easiest so far. The LMTV chassis parts (less specialty cab parts) are more available than Unimog parts, and suspect more available than Fuso parts, too. The CAT engines and Allison transmissions are supported in most every town, and small chassis parts like air system, brake system, and electrical are right out of the 'big truck' parts catalog.

I suggest you think about the camper though. What is your priority, a convenient and universal camper, or a neat truck? Do you want to have to climb 5 ft up to get in and out of the camper? Are you agile enough that a high cab will work for you on a daily basis? It takes effort to get into and out of these trucks. If the camper is the priority and convenience as a daily driver is important, then a common commercial chassis might be your preference.

Road speed is a significant issue. You will read of unmodified FMTV trucks being driven at 55 to 60, but those are on the peg on engine rpm. That's not good for the long term reliability, or fuel mileage. A comfortable LMTV speed is 45 mph, or a little more. That is SLOW compared to any commercial truck. If you upgrade the LMTV differentials you can add about 15 mph top speed, so 45 jumps to maybe 60 as a cruising speed. Several people on here have done that and report great results. That's on my list, and my parts just came in.

If road speed is not an issue, an M1079 sounds like what you want!

Bob

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Hey Eric,
Thanks for the photos via e-mail. Your rig looks exactly like what I'm thinking of. I'll send you another e-mail. My wife and I might want to come down and take a look.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Yup 1951M1078, that's totally what I am talking about. Looking at photos I've noticed that there is a lot of space between the aft frame rails and the bed on the M1078. It seems like it would be best to have the camper mounted as low as reasonably possible on the frame. Would you mount it directly to the frame or float it higher up like the stock M1078 has it? I understand that on the Fuso, they have to float it to let the bed flex under load a little.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Hey bikeman,
Thank you very much for answering some of those question. I know it was a long list. I appreciate the first-hand experience. It's good to know that many of the parts are available.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[LostInTheWorld]

I just finished registering mine here in California and picked up the plates today. Here was my process. Keping in mind that it may be different in other states.

1. Built the camper box. In my case I had to show that it was in-fact a camper. That meant it had to have a bed, cook top, bathroom. That also meant, not a removable cot, Not a Colman portable camp stove, and not a porta-potty. It all had to be permanent units. Now ive heard that some have gotten away with the 5 gal bucket and trashbag in the past. But not through my DMV and CHP! Also, it has to be permanently mounted to the camper by means of welding or bolting. Just cant be easily removed.

2. I went to a mobile DMV location and they gave me the forms to fill out. I had two options, first was special construction, second was just convert to RV. CHP chooses the route to take and they chose convert to RV since I didn't build the truck but rather just the camper.

3. Filled out the forms and provided the paperwork that came with the truck, (certificate to obtain title, bill of sale, and proof that tax was paid form).

4. DMV provided a two month temp movement permit and registration so I could drive the truck for the next steps.

5. If 1998 and newer then get smog check. Mine is 1997, no smog required. Yes, Cal smogs diesels. BS

6. Get brake and lamp check completed, must receive L-91 and B-91 forms certifying the systems are working correct. Few places are certified to do this and it was $190.00. What a racket, I know!

7. Take all paperwork to this point to Ca. Highway Patrol (CHP) for VIN verification. They verify it is in-fact a camper and safe to operate on the road. They document all the paperwork into the CHP computer system and then sign off on the paperwork (reg 124 form) to DMV.

8. Final trip to DMV to receive plates and final registration.

The registration ended up going from commercial truck (over $700 a year, to $159 a year) much better. the overall size is what DMV uses to charge for RV registration, not weight.

I hope this helps someone out and if you have any questions please let me know. I am happy to help you out.
Eric

Wow, awesome info Eric. Thank you very much. If I getting one, I will definitely ask you some specific questions about how to do this right. Thanks!!

Michael

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Hi Michael,

I have used Unimog chassis' for campers for many years and still own a U-1300L with a camper on it. Guess what, it is being replaced by an LMTV with a camper. Main reasons are that the LMTV is the most drivable 'big truck' I have had the pleasure to use, and parts procurement has been the easiest so far. The LMTV chassis parts (less specialty cab parts) are more available than Unimog parts, and suspect more available than Fuso parts, too. The CAT engines and Allison transmissions are supported in most every town, and small chassis parts like air system, brake system, and electrical are right out of the 'big truck' parts catalog.

I suggest you think about the camper though. What is your priority, a convenient and universal camper, or a neat truck? Do you want to have to climb 5 ft up to get in and out of the camper? Are you agile enough that a high cab will work for you on a daily basis? It takes effort to get into and out of these trucks. If the camper is the priority and convenience as a daily driver is important, then a common commercial chassis might be your preference.

Road speed is a significant issue. You will read of unmodified FMTV trucks being driven at 55 to 60, but those are on the peg on engine rpm. That's not good for the long term reliability, or fuel mileage. A comfortable LMTV speed is 45 mph, or a little more. That is SLOW compared to any commercial truck. If you upgrade the LMTV differentials you can add about 15 mph top speed, so 45 jumps to maybe 60 as a cruising speed. Several people on here have done that and report great results. That's on my list, and my parts just came in.

If road speed is not an issue, an M1079 sounds like what you want!

Bob

Thanks for the info Bob,
I'm really glad to hear from you guys that are thinking the same things I am. I'm also glad that you find the LMTV so drive-able.

Good points about the camper though. I have been looking at many many options. Almost all options are just too flimsy or they are too small. My wife and I have discussed a lot about what the right size is and if the LMTV is maybe a little too "much". We are actually starting to like it more. It seems like the best option for a long term livable volume on a 4x4. We are still young, so we can handle climbing up to get in and such, but it's a good point that you bring up.

The speed limitation is a little worrisome. I prefer back roads, but sometimes out west, you have to get on the freeway for while. I'm not in a hurry, but I don't want to cause a traffic obstruction either. What is involved in upgrading the LMTV differentials? Is it just a gear swap or is it an axle assembly change? Is there a mileage improvement with the gearing change?

Awesome info. Thanks!
Michael

 

[1951M1078]

Yup 1951M1078, that's totally what I am talking about. Looking at photos I've noticed that there is a lot of space between the aft frame rails and the bed on the M1078. It seems like it would be best to have the camper mounted as low as reasonably possible on the frame. Would you mount it directly to the frame or float it higher up like the stock M1078 has it? I understand that on the Fuso, they have to float it to let the bed flex under load a little.

Thanks,
Michael

You bring up a great question . I have not worked out the chassis idea yet.Was going to ask Eric about that ?

My first idea was to test the frame deflection with the standard bed and then test with it removed. Not sure if it has already been done ? Maybe Eric will chime in ?

I did build a 1/35 scale model of it and it has been a very good guide. Not being a owner (yet) it served as my test bed .



And the best part is I can just pick it up and look. LOL The M151 is for scale.

Randy

 

[Duckworthe]

You bring up a great question . I have not worked out the chassis idea yet.Was going to ask Eric about that ?

My first idea was to test the frame deflection with the standard bed and then test with it removed. Not sure if it has already been done ? Maybe Eric will chime in ?

I did build a 1/35 scale model of it and it has been a very good guide. Not being a owner (yet) it served as my test bed .

View attachment 614286View attachment 614287

And the best part is I can just pick it up and look. LOL The M151 is for scale.

Randy

Randy,
I tested the chassis flex on my truck personally with the bed on and off. I also talked to the drivers of these trucks at our base (NSW). They stated that these trucks don't have much flex if any. I tend to agree. I build off road race cars/trucks/rock crawlers, and obviously FMTV's are not in that class. But I found that there was no reason to fabricate a three point mount system on my truck, (it's not a MOG). I mounted my box just as the bed was mounted. Having my camper on and have driven it through trails that rock crawlers refused to go through, I can say I've had zero issues or concerns. The suspension works very well. The Border Patrol Officers actually stopped me on the trail to talk to me about what I had just driven through! I had to just laugh and tell them that was nothing for this truck. I just put it in Mode 1 and let her go.

 

[1951M1078]

Great info,Thanks Duckworthe.

 

[kenet3621]

I got an M1079 rather than an M1078 and I have used it on several road/camping trips and it is great for me (my wife has not yet gone along).



The truck itself has been great both on highway and off road. Top speed on mine has been 60 (downhill).
I don't consider it a full camper since I don't have permanent beds, bathroom or kitchen. The van is just a place to sleep and carry all my gear.

I have some upgrade posts that might be of interest to you.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?147122-LMTV-Upgrades

I plan on going to the NC rally next month and get more tips from other Steel Soldiers.

Good luck and post pictures when you get going!

 

[Duckworthe]

I got an M1079 rather than an M1078 and I have used it on several road/camping trips and it is great for me (my wife has not yet gone along).

View attachment 614327

The truck itself has been great both on highway and off road. Top speed on mine has been 60 (downhill).
I don't consider it a full camper since I don't have permanent beds, bathroom or kitchen. The van is just a place to sleep and carry all my gear.

I have some upgrade posts that might be of interest to you.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?147122-LMTV-Upgrades

I plan on going to the NC rally next month and get more tips from other Steel Soldiers.

Good luck and post pictures when you get going!

Then she has yet to hear the fan kick on?! LOL! I have watched your build post, you have done well!

 

[Shark Bait]

Not as much flex as one would think.

Dave

 

[f8617]

Hey Michael,
I've had my M1078 for ~6 months...and I've been pleased with it.
My learning curve on this truck was pretty steep compared to my M35A2...especially not having ever driven something with air brakes.
It drives like a school bus...i'm still not used to steering with the air cab bouncing...so 45mph seems to fast on 2-lane back roads.
It took me several months to get the parking brakes, and rear brakes, to work...I miss diagnosed it a faulty air brake chambers (~$240 each, new), but all the chambers need was a 1ounce dose of wd40.
One tire & wheel is 350lbs, lugs need 450 ftlbs torque.
The tires have a large volume, you'll likely want a large air compressor, if the CTIS is NOT working.
I also had a cracked front housing on the CAT 3116...apparently, after rebuilding the starter, the mechanic forgot to tighten the air compressor bracket bolts on engine block ($850 for new front housing, $100/hour CAT labor rate, ~$4k total repair bill).
Also, my truck weighs 9 tons...but you could probably shed 5k lbs by removing the bed.
Cheers,
Tom

 

[ROCKWELL-C60]

How come all u guys think u can't run a diesel at wot. I have a concrete pumping business and my trucks run wot day and night and are designed to do so. Sure mpg suffers but otr trucks have been running governed out forever.

 

[tennmogger]

How come all u guys think u can't run a diesel at wot. I have a concrete pumping business and my trucks run wot day and night and are designed to do so. Sure mpg suffers but otr trucks have been running governed out forever.

Good comment. No argument from me. I just know my LMTV sounds so much better at lower rpm, and mileage is better, around 8 mpg. Ok, 'I' feel better at lower rpm Maybe cab noise plays a part? Plus or minus a couple of MPG does not make much difference in the single digits.