M35a2 (M275) IP help

[ript]

short version - I picked up a '67 m275 that ran when parked (unknown date). last time it was started the motor ran away (4 years ago?) and end of story until I picked it up. I've read all the articles on the IP disconnect rod, HH rebuilds, and decided to see just what it is I am actually dealing with. Last weekend I started it up. Fired right up after a few cranks and proceeded to idle up and begin to run away. I was prepared and choked it out. I'd put a 50/50 ATF/Diesel mix in the filters and wanted to get the ATF circulated in the pump. I have started it and choked it down about 5 times in total now. So, I have a deuce that wants to start no matter the fuel shutoff position and once it starts she runs up up and away until i choke it out - time to tackle the IP.

I pulled the IP side cover and noticed two things - 1: no jesus clip (where did it go, down into the IP? need a new one of those, joy!) and 2: the lever/rod is frozen solid at the 0530 position. I'm going to soak it and clean/mark it up and free it up later. the plunger tip and everything else look okay and move freely.

Is there anything else I should be looking at or concerned with at this point? Put it back together and see what it does?

thanks for any advice/tips! I'm taking tons of pictures and reading the manuals 3 times before doing anything. I'm mechanically inclined just new to the deuce/diesel world and to stupid to be scared of much.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Nope, that position is why you are having it run off on you. Get that freed up and you should be golden!

Post some pics when you get a chance, those trucks are not seen often.

 

[ript]

Okay, got the rod cleaned up and IP all put back together. Turned it over, and the stack belches a ton of water. There's only one place that could have come from and that is the cooling system.

I stopped trying to crank it at this point, it sounded like it was hydro-locking.

advice, things to check, just a head gasket.. ? trying not to be to disappointed. I have a few hours to kill, guess i'll start searching and reading up.

 

[ript]

I've pulled the injectors and found #4 to have a broken injector tip and the cylinder is full of water. At this point the heads will be coming off. Looks like i'm going to get the accelerated getting to know your M35a2 experience! I'm going to call it a day at this point, no sense getting in any deeper until I'm ready.

 

[Jakelc15]

I'm not sure what year the new style head gasket came out but your engine is a pretty early one. At least you'll know what you have when your done the repairs.

 

[ript]

good ol #4..

 

[fsearls92]

Make sure to to check the heads for cracks. I have extra heads, injectors, and other parts for sale out of New Mexico if you need parts.

 

[ript]

I'm not sure what year the new style head gasket came out but your engine is a pretty early one. At least you'll know what you have when your done the repairs.

I have the LDT-465-1D. from what i've read this is a later model of the 1C and is the desirable TD block. I've emailed a couple suppliers to see if their LDS-465-1C gasket kits will fit my application.



fsearls92 - I will have the heads planed and gone thru before they get put back on. this is going to slow me down a bit $ wise but i'll keep you in mind when i'm ready for parts. I know i'll need at least one injector, i'll have the rest tested in the meantime.

 

[fsearls92]

I might have head gasket sets too if you don't get a good price from suppliers, I will have to check though. Definately get the heads machined and tested, also have the exhaust manifold decked since it will be off for a nice flush fit when you reassemble. When we did the head gaskets on one of the trucks, also had the injectors rebuilt and rebuilt the turbo since the truck was down. Figured it's worth doing it correctly.

 

[fsearls92]

Make sure to get the new style head gaskets with the built in fire ring.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Re heads, especially if you have to have the work done at a shop:

If done right and/or if the heads need significant planing, the valves need to come out to have the seats re-ground to make up for the material removed from the head surface. That, and if you also have cracks in your head (between valve seats is common) that need to be welded, take the shop quote and price replacement heads that come with a new set of valves and springs installed. You may just find you are coming out ahead $$ over having two marginal heads repaired.

It all depends how bad the heads are. Deck straightness can be checked with straightedge and feeler gauge.

 

[fsearls92]

Seems wierd too from a bad head gasket to belch coolant out the stack. I have normally seen head gaskets weep around the seams, and have coolant leak into the oil but never seen or heard of it coming out the exhaust. Once the heads are removed make sure to check the cylinders for cracks.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I'd wait till he digs in to the motor.

How long did the truck sit before you got it? Maybe the stack filled with water and that cyl had the valve open. All we know right now is somethings not right. Open her up and we can see which way to go from there.

 

[ript]

I'd wait till he digs in to the motor.

How long did the truck sit before you got it? Maybe the stack filled with water and that cyl had the valve open. All we know right now is somethings not right. Open her up and we can see which way to go from there.

Today's the day I get a peek inside. I started pulling off some of the exterior stuff last night and it looks like i may need to replace/rebuild the turbo as well. Letting this one sit full of water did it no good. I'll know more once I get it and the heads off. I'm taking plenty of pictures and you can expect some once we finish today's destruction. good thing i got a 'deal' on the truck...

I may end up with two before this is over, i'm getting impatient and there is one in NM i'm eyeballing with all the upgrades already done.

 

[ript]

Here's the teardown pictures -


here's what i found when i pulled the valve covers.


#1 intake push rod was just hanging out. that cylinder wasn't doing much.


left to right, 6-5-4. #4 intake valve springs have no retainer clip, valve stem is just chilling out down there.


#4 intake needs some adjusting.


#6 has been very hot. the piston shows signs of significant heat/meltdown. It appears to have kissed the exhaust valve at one point as well. sleeve is somewhat scored.


#5 shows some signs of heat as well, nothing like #6 tho.


So at this point do i consider the entire engine suspect and rebuild/replace, or is this able to be salvaged at a reasonable cost? I'm concerned how the bottom end looks with this much abuse evident and don't have much confidence in slapping a new top end/turbo on it and running it.

Thoughts? Leads? how this ran at all in it's current condition is surprising!

thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[gimpyrobb]

Well, you'd be surprised how many rocker arms look like that!

The valves are an issue. Shame you didn't get compression numbers before digging in. The pistons look bad, but the rings are more important imho.

 

[rustystud]

If you had piston to valve impact then your rods could be suspect and also the cam and pushrods and rockers. The sudden jarring impact can cause cascading failures. The piston hits the valve which sends an extra impact down to the rod which impacts the crank and bearings. I had a cam gear go out on a GMC inline 6 and the cascading failures caused me to basically replace the engine ! Depending on how severe and at what RPM this happened at would determine how severe the damage.
Here's hoping there is nothing too badly damaged.

 

[ript]

If you had piston to valve impact then your rods could be suspect and also the cam and pushrods and rockers. The sudden jarring impact can cause cascading failures. The piston hits the valve which sends an extra impact down to the rod which impacts the crank and bearings. I had a cam gear go out on a GMC inline 6 and the cascading failures caused me to basically replace the engine ! Depending on how severe and at what RPM this happened at would determine how severe the damage.
Here's hoping there is nothing too badly damaged.

that is my concern too, how much trauma did the rest of the valve train take, and what was the cause/order of destruction? I'm going to assume it self destructed while it was in a run away condition (history i was told is it ran away, they choked it out and parked it - i now have my doubts) and it was either not known or disclosed that there was internal damage. did #4 start the fun, or was it collateral damage? I'll clean the gunk off #4 piston and get a look at it today. At least i know where the water was getting into the system now, the rear head has some extra holes in it courtesy of the valve relocation project.

my thought for this truck is look for a donor motor to swap in. with all that is unknown and known about this motor I would not trust it without a complete overhaul and I dont know how realistic that is, especially without a full teardown to assess.

I think another truck is in my future and I can decide what to do with this one later.

 

[winfred]

as a line tech and the diesel guy at my gmc dealer id suggest looking for a running take out, by time its built youll be well above used replacement price and the possibility of missing one of the cascade failure parts is possible, worst case cash scenario I see crated reman multifuels on a popular online auction site for 4k, seen running take outs for half or less of that. if mine shells out I am gonna look hard at a 12 valve cummins, my dually makes nearly 3 times the hp and torque and is reliable as a wood stove, plus doesn't require babying, 360k miles and I bounce it off the 3k governor spring kit almost every time I drive it

 

[rustystud]

as a line tech and the diesel guy at my gmc dealer id suggest looking for a running take out, by time its built youll be well above used replacement price and the possibility of missing one of the cascade failure parts is possible, worst case cash scenario I see crated reman multifuels on a popular online auction site for 4k, seen running take outs for half or less of that. if mine shells out I am gonna look hard at a 12 valve cummins, my dually makes nearly 3 times the hp and torque and is reliable as a wood stove, plus doesn't require babying, 360k miles and I bounce it off the 3k governor spring kit almost every time I drive it

I agree. I have already decided if my Multifuel ever craps out on me I will replace it with a IHC DT466 engine. If I could afford one of these NOS engines floating around I would buy it. Since I don't have that kind of cash laying around the DT466 is the next best thing.