M35A2C Won't Start, and I Tore my Pants

[nf6x]

I'm trying to wake up my M35A2C after it has sat for a few years, and I'm having a problem that I haven't dealt with before on the many deuces I've owned. I'm unable to get the engine to start, despite checking the things that have worked for me before. My search-fu has not enlightened me so far; it appears that the word "start" is pretty common in threads here!

The in-tank pump runs, and I get fuel from the filter bleed screw with the pump running. I've tried bleeding at the injectors, and I get fuel spurts from three of them; the other three haven't spurted any fuel yet with a lot of cranking (10-20 seconds interleaved with minutes of waiting for the starter to cool). I'd think that at least one cylinder would fire occasionally with three injector lines apparently bled, but no luck. The engine will catch for a moment with a bit of starting fluid, so I do seem to have compression.

The engine stop plunger moves freely after I hit the stop cable with some penetrating oil to free it up. The accelerator pedal stuck at first, but I exercised it a bit and it goes back up now.

All the while I've cranked, I've had it slaved to my running M1009 to keep the batteries up.

I recall reading in the distant past about something sticking in the injection pump, but I do not recall whether that was related to the symptoms I'm having. So, do the deuce-resurrection experts have any suggestions for me?

My truck's intake manifold heater was replaced with an ether start system while in military service. It's the only deuce I've personally encountered like that so far. I've never had any ether canisters for it; I just used canned starting fluid, squirted against the air filter for about one second. I took off the mushroom and I have a large ammo can standing by in case the engine runs away and I need to choke it off. I've never had that problem, but I've read about it happening.

I also tore my ACU pants on the mouse-eaten driver's seat cushion springs while getting out of the truck. It's probably an unrelated problem.

 

[steelandcanvas]

I also tore my ACU pants on the mouse-eaten driver's seat cushion springs while getting out of the truck. It's probably an unrelated problem.

Your mouse guest might be a related problem. Have you checked the intake side of the engine to make sure you have no more "house guests"? Very easy to do since you're kind of stumped on the injection system.

 

[nf6x]

I'll go do that after I finish my soda. I figured that it must be getting air since it caught with some starting fluid, but I haven't pulled off the filter housing yet to check for squatters. Be right back...

 

[nf6x]

...Ok, no mousies found in the air filter housing, and no mousie poops, either. The wire mesh on the mushroom kept them out of there. The filter is intact, and I didn't even get too much dirt out of it when I slapped it around in the breeze. So I think my air path is open, and the starting problem still seems to be unrelated to my torn pants.

 

[steelandcanvas]

...Ok, no mousies found in the air filter housing, and no mousie poops, either. The wire mesh on the mushroom kept them out of there. The filter is intact, and I didn't even get too much dirt out of it when I slapped it around in the breeze. So I think my air path is open, and the starting problem still seems to be unrelated to my torn pants.

Good! One less thing to troubleshoot now. It was a stab in the dark, but it's good to be sure there were no blockages.

 

[nf6x]

Indeed. And it would have been funny if my torn pants and failure to start actually were related!

 

[212sparky]

could something have gone down the exhaust? Maby your plunger is stuck in the Hydraulic Head?

 

[Heath_h49008]

The engine stop plunger was stuck in the "pulled" location or just the cable? If I read that correctly it was just the cable.

Do you have a fuel pressure testing gauge set available? I'm going to suggest pressure testing as-per TM of course... but my money is one the relief circuit in the Hydraulic Head or another retainer clip failure as mentioned in a thread my search-fu cannot seem to find.

As for the pants... it could be the universe insisting it's time for a prostate exam... voluntarily or not.

 

[nf6x]

212sparky:

I haven't checked the exhaust yet; but the truck does crank easily, and it catches for a moment with some ether.

I was wondering about the plunger being stuck in the hydraulic head, too. I haven't had that problem before and it's been years since I've read about it, so I'm not positive about it yet. Could that result in the symptoms I have where I seem to be getting some fuel to half the injectors, but possibly still not getting any into those cylinders?

Heath_h49008:

It was just the cable that was sticky, I think. My engine stop cable has a pawl to let it be locked in the pulled position, and I left it there while the truck was parked for a few years, if that might matter. After oiling the cable, the stop plunger moves freely and pops right back into "run" position when I push in the stop handle.

I don't have a fuel pressure testing gauge set. I do have an injector pop-off tester if it comes to pulling out the injectors. I don't know whether it includes the right fittings for the deuce injectors; I got it on eBay many years ago, but I don't think I've actually used it for real.

I seem to recall a thread that I saw recently where somebody took out the splined cap on the side of the head for some reason... I don't recall the details. I don't recall reading anything about a retainer clip before.

Regarding the prostate exam, this truck thankfully has the old-style parking brake lever, rather than the new-style adjustable kind that tries to boof me whenever I get out of the cab.

 

[212sparky]

you could also have to much clearance around the plunger in the HH causing not enough pressure to build to pop the injectors. Or you could have crud-ed up injectors. have you checked your fuel return lines to make sure they are clear? On my MEP 004a it was a blocked fuel return from the Injection Pump that would give me similar symptoms to what you are having with the M35

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Have you tried spraying a little ether? That would rule out a fuel problem. ive had a backhoe run out of fuel before and the only way i got it to start was with ether to get the engine to crank over fast enough to bleed air out of the injector/pump.

 

[63foxtrot]

sounds like you need a injection pump.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Wouldnt it still run on ether without an injection pump though? I know its not reccommended by why cant he tow it in gear? Get it up to speed and get those cylinder to seal a little better and the engine cranking over much faster maybe it will bleed the injection pump out

 

[derby]

My money is on the plunger in the HH, either it is stuck or the clip came off from being stuck. since you said it would squirt out of a couple injectors I would say it is not stuck.....now. Are You getting fuel back on the return line?

 

[mudman]

While cranking...Is there smoke out the exhaust? If no smoke no fuel.

 

[Stan]

Do a search on (hydraulic head). You should find details on removeing the bolt in the center of the h/hand checking to see if the plunger is moving.

You freed the stuck stop cable but did the stop mechanism in the pump move? The h/h search should also get you info on how to check this.

Are you getting fuel out of your secondary filters on the drivers side of the eng?

 

[nf6x]

Ok, here's the next update after struggling with the truck some more (and further ripping my ACU pants):

I get fuel at all six injectors now. I found that on the ones where I didn't get fuel before, it wasn't enough to just loosen the flare nuts. I had to unscrew them all the way and then tug on the line to free the flare from its seat.

I recalled reading way back when about removing the plug in the center of the hydraulic head and tapping on the plunger inside with a brass drift. So I got a brass drift and little brass hammer, and did that, after hosing off the top of the hydraulic head with electrical cleaner to avoid getting dirt inside. The plunger moved a tiny bit. I tried to just tap the drift without pounding too hard.

In another experiment, I loosened the plug in the hydraulic head and cranked for a few seconds; fuel came out.

I loosened and retightened the plug on the side with the 12-point head. I didn't expect that to do anything helpful, and I was not disappointed by the lack of results.

The engine will run on ether, so I believe that it breathes and compresses.

The engine ran fine when parked, and failed while sitting for threeish years. So, I'm skeptical that all six injectors plugged up simultaneously; a hydraulic head problem seems more likely to me.

I don't see any smoke while cranking. So, that makes me suspect that even though fuel makes it to the injectors, it doesn't get any farther. So, maybe a hydraulic head problem that decreases the pressure enough to keep the injectors from popping?

I have not checked the return lines yet. I can try that tomorrow. Do I just crack open a line and look for fuel coming out while cranking? Where should I crack the line? Is either too much or too little fuel coming out a sign of a problem?

I'll need to try to look up the thread(s) covering that retainer clip, because I don't think I've read about it before.

The stop plunger moves, but I did not check what it does inside the pump. I'll look for details about that while I'm researching the hydraulic head here.

I am getting fuel out of the secondary filter, as verified by cracking open the input line on the side of the hydraulic head while running the in-tank pump, as well as getting fuel at the inputs to the injectors while cranking.

Thanks for all of the help so far! I'll research more tonight, and dig deeper into the truck tomorrow.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

So yeah if you can get it to run on ether that rules out exhaust, or intake clogging, or valvetrain problems.

While your problem may lie in the injection pump would it really hurt to try to tow it in gear? The faster cranking speed may free up whatever is sticking in the injection pump or it may bleed out any air that is locking in an injector.

 

[derby]

I thought that I had read you checked the fuel cut off. You should pull the cover off the side and check that the fuel lever is all the way forward, I think about 7 o clock. That could be it. Try that first thing, then proceed from there.

 

[nf6x]

Towing it would be a problem, because it's parked in a pretty tight spot. I'd prefer to get it running so that I can carefully maneuver it around the nearby obstructions, such as the guy lines for my antenna mast (40' GRA-4 mast suspending my 80m ham radio dipole). I don't really have anything big enough to town it conveniently ready, anyway; my wrecker's brakes don't work at all right now, and everything else I have running is CUCV-sized or smaller.

I'll check under the fuel cutoff cover first thing tomorrow. I don't think that'll be the problem since I get fuel at the injector lines when I open them up, but it'll be an easy thing to check. Thanks!