M35A3 Mod

[eldgenb]

Hey guys, I love the Deuce but it has some things to be desired, I prefer the drivetrain of the A3 but the nose makes me vomit in my mouth at times. My question is what physically makes it necessary to lift the nose like that? is it the intercooler and the radiator? the crossover tube? I would be interested in getting one and swapping an A2 front clip onto it for the "rugged good looks"
thanks in advance.
Eldgen.

 

[rchalmers3]

I have not played with an A3 yet, but from photos it appears that the A3 has a redesigned front clip to accommodate a wider and taller radiator. Look carefully and you will see that the headlights were pushed out onto the fenders.

I have no idea on how you will succeed in fitting an A2 front clip onto the A3, while maintaining operating parameters.

Rick.

 

[flyxpl]

Just got my A3 . Fenders apear to be the same . What has been done is the A2 hood widened ,hood may be longer also , hood is left in a nose high position , which can be seen by how the side panels between the hood and fenders is taller in the front rather than square like the A2 . I think it is the nose high attitude that gives it the narley look . I assume they did all that for a reason , but that dosen't mean it was a good one and could not be changed . I have not taken the time to see why they needed to do what they did . Good posibility it is radiator and intercooler related . The nose is definitly taller and wider .

 

[jwaller]

if AMG could have not spent the $ to mod the std deuce hood they would not have done it. it's not possible. it was made wider for a purpose. the rad and IC are larger and that was the only way to make it work without making a new hood altogether.

 

[m16ty]

if AMG could have not spent the $ to mod the std deuce hood they would not have done it. it's not possible. it was made wider for a purpose. the rad and IC are larger and that was the only way to make it work without making a new hood altogether.

I guess you could modify the truck to where the hood didn't slope upward but you'd have to raise the cab.

The only problem I can think of with raising the cab would be a few linkages and you'd have to modify the steering shaft.

 

[gringeltaube]

Just my words....! If the whole cab with fenders was raised only 2" it would allow the hood to remain in (normal) horizontal position and it would look much better IMHO.
But then they had to mod the steering column, pedals, shifters, and so much more....
Now, if there was the M35A4 version..... it would have a 200Hp intercooled 5.9 6BT/auto, hydro-asist steering, tilt st. column..... and all of it would fit nicely under a A2 skin!

G.

 

[m16ty]

There was the M35A3 prototype that had a 5.9 Cummins and a2 sheetmetal. Why on earth the government didn't go with it is beyond me.

I've even seen a couple sell on GL (or was it GSA?) so they are out there. It's my understanding that they made several production units but most went overseas.

 

[broman78]

There was the M35A3 prototype that had a 5.9 Cummins and a2 sheetmetal. Why on earth the government didn't go with it is beyond me.

I've even seen a couple sell on GL (or was it GSA?) so they are out there. It's my understanding that they made several production units but most went overseas.

Maybe Caterpillar had better lobbyist than cummins or Oshkosh got better pricing via Caterpillar. Some people buy just based off of perceived perception and reputation whether the product is better or not.

 

[eldgenb]

yeah that is what i figured was the radiator and intercooler, I know I can find equally performing products in a smaller package with current technology. I like that the A3 has all the goodies you could spend a fortune to add to an A2 but the nose and headlights have to go. A body lift would not be a bad idea since I would bob it and put 16/20's on it so a little lift is ok, that might actually be the way to go. a 2" body lift should do the trick, or I could make a new front crossmember and drop them down further into the frame to gain a couple inches. Thanks for responding.

 

[eldgenb]

by the way what is the hydraulic tank on the front bumper for? was the winch pto or hydraulic for these trucks?

 

[mudguppy]

..... it would have a 200Hp intercooled 5.9 6BT/auto, ... and all of it would fit nicely under a A2 skin!

G.

i don't know about that; by my measurements i'm making preparations to put the headlights outboard. but i'll let you know by the end of October.

 

[mudguppy]

by the way what is the hydraulic tank on the front bumper for? was the winch pto or hydraulic for these trucks?

yes, for the winch - it is hydraulicly driven from an engine mounted pump and air-piloted control valve to a direct-coupled hydraulic motor.

 

[flyxpl]

if AMG could have not spent the $ to mod the std deuce hood they would not have done it. it's not possible. it was made wider for a purpose. the rad and IC are larger and that was the only way to make it work without making a new hood altogether.

Anything is possible , Is it possible they chose to mod the hood because that was cheaper than having radiator and intercooler made that would fit the truck , instead they chose to make the truck fit a radiator and intercooler that was probably already in production . Just my opinion . The government does not always choose the best route , Look at the CTIS system on the truck , they have a POS computer doing the job that a few solenoid's and an air pressure gauge could probably accomplish .

 

[m16ty]

i don't know about that; by my measurements i'm making preparations to put the headlights outboard. but i'll let you know by the end of October.

Yes, a 5.9 with intercooler will fit inside a A2 engine compartment. Check out this thread- http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/20504-experimental-deuce.html . It's pics of the M35A3 prototype I mentioned earlier.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Dang, how'd I miss that thread. I like it!

 

[eldgenb]

Yes, a 5.9 with intercooler will fit inside a A2 engine compartment. Check out this thread- http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/20504-experimental-deuce.html . It's pics of the M35A3 prototype I mentioned earlier.

cool thread, that is pretty close to what I want to end up with just with the allison not another stick. Cool looking truck.

 

[mudguppy]

Yes, a 5.9 with intercooler will fit inside a A2 engine compartment. Check out this thread- http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/20504-experimental-deuce.html . It's pics of the M35A3 prototype I mentioned earlier.

actually, those pictures confirm that i'll be moving head lights outboard. that truck had a narrow IC and Rad stuffed into the 29" wide opening in the front clip. i've been doing a lot of searching: an IC that is roughly 28"w x 26" tall won't flow or cool what i need it too. there are several out there in that size range, but they are all from NPR 4-cylinders or similar and won't have near the capacity i would need. the pressure drop would be pretty large, too. i'd have to get a custom one made at big $$$ (5" or 6" thick core ) and i'd still probably have to relocate the rad to the bed.

that setup is probably fine for a 160-175hp 5.9, which is still going to run (and pull) circles around the MF.

i plan to use the stock IC and Rad combo and see what i end up w/ - they'll both fit under the hood, i'll just have to remove the HL's and corner brackets. we shall see.

 

[eldgenb]

actually, those pictures confirm that i'll be moving head lights outboard. that truck had a narrow IC and Rad stuffed into the 29" wide opening in the front clip. i've been doing a lot of searching: an IC that is roughly 28"w x 26" tall won't flow or cool what i need it too. there are several out there in that size range, but they are all from NPR 4-cylinders or similar and won't have near the capacity i would need. the pressure drop would be pretty large, too. i'd have to get a custom one made at big $$$ (5" or 6" thick core ) and i'd still probably have to relocate the rad to the bed.

that setup is probably fine for a 160-175hp 5.9, which is still going to run (and pull) circles around the MF.

i plan to use the stock IC and Rad combo and see what i end up w/ - they'll both fit under the hood, i'll just have to remove the HL's and corner brackets. we shall see.

The thing is that I know of trucks with no intercooler making over 400hp, now they run a little hot at WOT but managable. Can the cat not run worth a darn without the intercooler? I am not apposed to scrapping the A3 and adding a cta 8.3 with allison out of a donor but the main thing I want is all the upgrades that came on the A3, it sounds like I would be better off building a nice A2 vs paying a premium for an A3 and not be really satisfied with it.

 

[Blood_of_Tyrants]

Maybe Caterpillar had better lobbyist than cummins or Oshkosh got better pricing via Caterpillar. Some people buy just based off of perceived perception and reputation whether the product is better or not.

Your answer is probably closer to the truth than most. Unfortunately, the company who crosses the most powerful politician's palms with silver gets the most contracts.

 

[lonegunman]

Maybe Caterpillar had better lobbyist than cummins or Oshkosh got better pricing via Caterpillar. Some people buy just based off of perceived perception and reputation whether the product is better or not.

OR maybe the AM General truck with the Cat motor was a better truck. Strange as it seems the better product does actually win from time to time.

Using off the shelf commerical parts is worth tons of money in spares. Having to build and stock odd sized radiators and intercoolers and other odd sized stuff for a Cummins motor truck means paying premium prices for low production runs. The Cummins might be a better motor, but the overall package can be a dog, just like a Dodge. Dodge put a Cummins engine in a truck with a sorry manual trans and tin that rusts at light speed.