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M37 Brakes

jakeblues107

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New Guy here, forgive me for asking something I know has been answered in a previous thread, but Im still seeking the answer. The fire department I belong to has a 1952 M-37 set up for wildland (brush/grass) firefighting. This truck is perfect for our use as it goes places newer trucks are afraid to think about, it's short wheelbase makes it a dream for tight spaces, but as I've seen elsewhere the braking system is showing it's 60 year age. I've looked at www.uglytruckling.com and found some good information, just looking to see what others have done with good results. In a perfect world I would be suggesting replacement from a safety/liability issue and that it's a 60 yo truck, but also want to be able to explore all options as well. THANKS!!
 

zout

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First post - have you looked or searched in the M37 forum for any replies or relative posts that answer your question - or was the first question just looking for quick answers ?
 

NDT

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If you are worried about the brakes, you can replace the original system end to end with new parts. Simple task and not very expensive either. The stock system works great in my opinion, even with a heavy load.
 

Storm 51

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If you keep the truck STOCK and internalize the necessity that the truck will go SLOW (REALLY SLOW - not sort of slow, but REALLY SLOW) the brakes will be more than adequate. If you can't stand driving a 45 MPH truck and need a freeway flyer that will do 70 MPH you will need to do the disc brake conversion on all axles. The stock brake system is simple and easy to maintain on a 45 MPH truck.

You need to make a decision about your (or the departments') willingness to live within the limits of a 60 year old truck.

As Shakespeare would say......."that is the question."

Storm 51
 

jakeblues107

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First, in answer to Zout's reply, I have attempted to search this forum for the answer, from 66 pages in the M37 section to 16 pages of what looks to be forum wide answers and why I put my forgiveness disclaimer at the start of my thread. If I have offended you I appologise and will go elsewhere for my information.

Storm 51, you raise the very question(s) I am seeking answers to. Personally I would like to retire this truck and use it for a parade piece, but I also need to build my case to support that decision. Yes I can quote reams of NFPA 1901 related facts, but I also like to present a dollar based recommendation as well.
 

rtk

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Also bear in mind that the M37 uses a SINGLE circuit brake system , IMO , not a safe system for a Fire/Rescue department . We used to call it a 2vpump system , brake a line and you had MAYBE 2 pumps to get it stopped . If nothing else , update the truck to the 2 circuit MC , not a bad project , or better yet get ahold of you state liaison and get a more up to date MV .
 

EMD567

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Using a M37 in this day and age as an brush truck is foolish IMHO. While the M37's are rugged, it is getting harder and harder to find parts. Plus, you can purchase off the shelf pick up trucks that will do the same job faster and safer.
 

Storm 51

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O.K., I'm glad we got to the crux of the matter.

I have had an M-37 / M-42 for over 33 years (they were still using them when I was in the Army waaaaaaay back in "68 to '71).

The engines used in these trucks is an industrial engine (they are still used in fork-lifts). These trucks were meant to haul food and ammo to front line units in Europe and Korea. They were basically replaced by UH-1 Hueys in Viet Nam. They will go through or over anything. Their speed was matched to the tanks of the time (late '40's and all through the 50's through mid '60's).

I still use mine in the woods, and while I will not win any races, I can get to places no one else can and I rescue a lot of stuck vehicles. Off road (really NO road areas), these things can't be beat except by a helicopter).

So, will these things work to fight brush / forest fires? You bet! They will go places that your drivers won't go. Put them on a flatbed and haul them to road end and they will amaze you.

BUT.... drive them on the freeway for 50 miles to get to the fire service road and NOBODY (neither you nor the truck) will be happy.

So, my advice (and please remember, it is worth exactly what you pay for it) is either to keep it stock (the manuals will NEVER lie to you then) and only use it off road, or get a newer truck that is a compromise between "freeway flyer" and off road truck.

The M-37 will plow fields all day long and be a very happy horse, if taken care of. It will never get to the Kentucky Derby.

Storm 51
 
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poppop

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jakeblues107, I have much trouble with the search feature and seldom find what I am looking for without looking at a lot of unrelated material so don't worry about that. As stated the M37 will be a great truck if you don't have to go long distances to the fire. If you replace all the brake componates then you will have as safe a system as it was back in the trucks heyday. Driven with its limitations in mind I don't see a problem with it.
 

jakeblues107

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I thank you ALL for your replies and in no specific order, The area we serve isn't like the counties and fire protection districts down south where most of you have replied from, heck my state is probably the size of one of your counties! We are lucky enough to cover only about a 10 mile radius, so highway travel is not a concern. The single brake system IS my biggest concern, my thoughts and intent withy my questioning is multi fold:
A) If I was considering an upgrade to the braking system on my 1995 Dodge 3500 Dually, why wouldnt I consider a brake upgrade to a 1952 Dodge
B) I would love to replace this truck with a newer, easier to find parts for, in therory more reliable truck, speed is not important to me, especially when dealing with younger drivers who are used to their Ford Focus sized cars and dont understand the limitations of what they are driving and yes that's a training issue as well
C) Government Red Tape-If I can make the truck safer until a replacement can be aquired
D) MORE Government Red Tape-If I obtain as much information as I can to present and support my case for replacement then that eliminates or reduces the Why cant we do....
Some of what Im dealing with is what I call "Old New England Farmer Mentality" aka "It was good enough when..." I dont want or even am thinking of investing 50-60,000 in a brand new vehicle that is going to be driven in the woods. Again I appreciate the time you all have taken to reply to my question.
 

NDT

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A) If I was considering an upgrade to the braking system on my 1995 Dodge 3500 Dually, why wouldnt I consider a brake upgrade to a 1952 Dodge
Because if you cobble up something and it fails while one of your Focus-driving firefighters is driving it, and it tumbles down a hill and all aboard are killed, you will have a lot of explaining to do in court.
 

Ferroequinologist

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In my opinion, for what you want to do, the M37 is a fine vehicle to do it. You can put a dual circuit MC on it without much hassle at all, there are several websites that show how its done with off the shelf components. All the brake lines, hoses, wheel cylinders, shoes, springs, etc can be totally replaced with brand new parts, for around $500.

I don't see why the truck can't be a brush truck by day, and on special occations, also be a parade truck.

Another thing is that truck is 100 times easier to jury rig or quick repair in the field to get you out of the woods than say a 2005 pickup. Even basic models that new have too much going on under the hood.

I got an M37 that was pretty much shoved in a barn and forgotten for 30 years. Put in new points, condensor, and coil, and she runs like a top. You can't do that with newer trucks.

The major benefit I see to getting a newer truck is less PM maintenance to keep it reliable, the brakes are already 'upgraded', and parts are easy to get at your local auto parts store.
 

3dAngus

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I've never found a part for my M-37 that could not be procured, outside of a new hood. As far as brake parts go, every single original piece is available from multiple sources.
The original brakes will do the job. You may have to replace all the parts from end to end now. They are 60 years old. If you want to take shortcuts and save money, you just have to get under the truck, discover the problems, and replace as you go. I ended up just replacing a few lines rather then all of them, a master cylinder, and one wheel brake cylinder and the brakes are appropriate for the vehicle's age and speed now.

No need for disk brakes. It is overkill unless you change out the drive train, which would defeat the purpose of having this rock crawler in the first place. I would not recommend that. Going to work on it, testing, driving it, and reworking your weaknesses after bleeding will tell you what you really want to know about costs, but order a new master and a couple of wheel cylinders for a starter, along with some brake fluid. A closer inspection will tell you if you might need some new lines for a starter, but all are available, from front end to the rear, so don't worry about the parts availability. I would just estimate $400 for a budget for starters, and you might do it for much less. Providing a better estimate is impossible without knowing your real needs, a visual inspection, a test drive, and budgetary constraints, but if you're thinking of disk brakes as a possibility, I would think you could afford a complete new original brake system without any problem. That could be done for less then $600 if I'm not mistaken, which would replace every line in there. It does not include brake drums and shoes. Just the hydraulics. Inspect further for additional expense inside the wheel hubs for shoes and drums needing replacement.
You can see the numbers vary even here in print, due to lack of knowledge of what you have. All we can provide is ballpark based on different philosophies and your inspection.
Good luck with it.
 

Storm 51

Just a Grunt
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If that's your truck you have ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS taking that out in the woods during a fire!!!!

That is way too nice of a truck to be getting it all dirty and scratched up and stuff.

You should go buy another fire truck.

Storm 51
 
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