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I'd like to combine an M818 tractor and an M109 body. This will replace my M35+S280 shelter.
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M818 + M109 body
- Thread starter OPCOM
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On of the guys in our club, Dale did it to a M52 5T, Last year.
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Pawnshop
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I like the windows on his back doors, did he do that?
Your last two images won't enlarge, what's up???
Your last two images won't enlarge, what's up???
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No, some of the old school M185 boxes came with them.
Pawnshop
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Now I need some M185 doors
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That M52 job looks real nice. What is the propane for? Do you have more pics? I'm really wanting an 818 but I'm interested in all info..
Advantages:
More room in the box than the S280 shelter.
Wide hatch in the 109 box. ATV will fit in.
250HP Cummins NHC250 engine - every shop knows how to work on it, in case I need big help.
M818 itself is fairly light in weight at 19,765 LBs vs M35A2 13,500 LBs
M818 payload is 15,000 LBs. vs M35 10,000 LBs
M109 body weighs what 3000 LBs? so would be 22,765 LBs ve My deuce's 20,000 LBs as-fitted weight. Note th HP/Lb ratio.
63MPH with 53" tires vs deuce 59MPH with 11.00x20's. make it possible to cruise at 60 all day..
Disadvantages:
Taller height with the planned 53" tires
- (Vinny's was 11FT 3" with (assumed) 16.00x20 tires)
Higher fuel consumption than M35
2,765 Lbs heavier
Where to put the spare?
- Too big to fit between the cab and box unless the box can be moved back. The "wheelwells" are cosmetic far as I can tell having looked an a 109 the other day.
- - If this were done, the spare carrier might have to be modded - and the toolbox is going to have to go.
- Could be put in the box, but that would take up lots of room.
Now that we know the 818/109 truck can be done, (Thanks Vinny) and more info has surfaced, there are enough details to mention:
- One constraint I face is time because the plan was to travel to 54REO's place this fall, and he would help me do it. He's got alot of the right tools and the right skills also, being a millwright so it won't be like me trying to do a hack job at home. I can take off only 14 consecutive days. 2 days minimum travel each way. distance 1000 miles so more like 3 days. This might resolve itself.
The pieces:
- Today, I do not have an 818 truck or 109 body. I would prefer them with as little rust as possible, especially the 109 body. I'm used to some rust on he trucks, all these trucks have it and I am not building a showpiece. It could end up as one though if the parts are nice enough. This might resolve itself.
M109 bodies:
- 109 bodies are damaged badly by rust because they have wood in the walls and can rot. This can be detected around the edges of the walls at floor level. Even if someone has cleaned off the rust to improve the appearance (haha and sometimes to ask more $$), the evidence is there if one knows what to look for.
Mounting:
- 7/8" U-bolts can be used to hold the 109 body.
Lift gates:
- While it might be a relatively simple task to strip off the 818's 5th wheel and place a 109 box on it, I really want to have a lift gate. I'm studying that..
- 34" frame width (for a lift gate - I really need one since one reason for the 109 box is so the ATV will fit inside and I won't need a trailer)
- -About the lift gate, the M820A2's gate and hardware incl PTO might be too complex and space-consuming, maybe overkill, definitely and hard to find+costly. It has not only a PTO driven pump, but a shore powered AC motor. Either can be used. I would not need the motor, and I have to keep in mind definite space limitations because the 818 is alot shorter than the M820A2. The gate assy and aux equipment is also very heavy.
- -A 24V or even 12V pump-operated gate would be best. I need only 1000 LBS capacity (820A2's gate holds 3000 lbs). If a smallish gate is too short, it can be lengthened or extensions added for the wheelbase of the ATV.
- -There are two kinds of gates I'm aware of.
- - - One folds up under the back-end of the truck bed/body.
- - - One folds up flat against the back of the body (820A2 style)
- - - - Of these, there is a kind with cables and pulleys in posts on each side of the gate on the back of the body (fit like on rental trucks), and a kind with no pulleys and cables (fit like on M820A2).
So this is where things stand at the moment. 818's go for low prices like <2K on GL especially when there are several in the sale. Therefore, maybe I can buy one that runs and drives correctly at a good price, even if someone is passing one along to me that is excess to their needs. I really cannot pay retail for one. I also have room at home for only one truck so that is another thing but it might resolve itself in some way. 109 bodies - they can be had for cheap enough because people take them off to replace with beds or cranes or what have you. I think this project could be very interesting and also would be well documented. It would be the perfect use of time and materials on a road trip.
Pictures are of Vinny's 818+109 and of my M35+S280. Notice the height. It's hard to tell but the M35 with S280 is about the same height because there's the bed, then there's integral skids under the shelter as well as the insulated shelter flooring itself, adding maybe 8-9" to the height over an M109.
Advantages:
More room in the box than the S280 shelter.
Wide hatch in the 109 box. ATV will fit in.
250HP Cummins NHC250 engine - every shop knows how to work on it, in case I need big help.
M818 itself is fairly light in weight at 19,765 LBs vs M35A2 13,500 LBs
M818 payload is 15,000 LBs. vs M35 10,000 LBs
M109 body weighs what 3000 LBs? so would be 22,765 LBs ve My deuce's 20,000 LBs as-fitted weight. Note th HP/Lb ratio.
63MPH with 53" tires vs deuce 59MPH with 11.00x20's. make it possible to cruise at 60 all day..
Disadvantages:
Taller height with the planned 53" tires
- (Vinny's was 11FT 3" with (assumed) 16.00x20 tires)
Higher fuel consumption than M35
2,765 Lbs heavier
Where to put the spare?
- Too big to fit between the cab and box unless the box can be moved back. The "wheelwells" are cosmetic far as I can tell having looked an a 109 the other day.
- - If this were done, the spare carrier might have to be modded - and the toolbox is going to have to go.
- Could be put in the box, but that would take up lots of room.
Now that we know the 818/109 truck can be done, (Thanks Vinny) and more info has surfaced, there are enough details to mention:
- One constraint I face is time because the plan was to travel to 54REO's place this fall, and he would help me do it. He's got alot of the right tools and the right skills also, being a millwright so it won't be like me trying to do a hack job at home. I can take off only 14 consecutive days. 2 days minimum travel each way. distance 1000 miles so more like 3 days. This might resolve itself.
The pieces:
- Today, I do not have an 818 truck or 109 body. I would prefer them with as little rust as possible, especially the 109 body. I'm used to some rust on he trucks, all these trucks have it and I am not building a showpiece. It could end up as one though if the parts are nice enough. This might resolve itself.
M109 bodies:
- 109 bodies are damaged badly by rust because they have wood in the walls and can rot. This can be detected around the edges of the walls at floor level. Even if someone has cleaned off the rust to improve the appearance (haha and sometimes to ask more $$), the evidence is there if one knows what to look for.
Mounting:
- 7/8" U-bolts can be used to hold the 109 body.
Lift gates:
- While it might be a relatively simple task to strip off the 818's 5th wheel and place a 109 box on it, I really want to have a lift gate. I'm studying that..
- 34" frame width (for a lift gate - I really need one since one reason for the 109 box is so the ATV will fit inside and I won't need a trailer)
- -About the lift gate, the M820A2's gate and hardware incl PTO might be too complex and space-consuming, maybe overkill, definitely and hard to find+costly. It has not only a PTO driven pump, but a shore powered AC motor. Either can be used. I would not need the motor, and I have to keep in mind definite space limitations because the 818 is alot shorter than the M820A2. The gate assy and aux equipment is also very heavy.
- -A 24V or even 12V pump-operated gate would be best. I need only 1000 LBS capacity (820A2's gate holds 3000 lbs). If a smallish gate is too short, it can be lengthened or extensions added for the wheelbase of the ATV.
- -There are two kinds of gates I'm aware of.
- - - One folds up under the back-end of the truck bed/body.
- - - One folds up flat against the back of the body (820A2 style)
- - - - Of these, there is a kind with cables and pulleys in posts on each side of the gate on the back of the body (fit like on rental trucks), and a kind with no pulleys and cables (fit like on M820A2).
So this is where things stand at the moment. 818's go for low prices like <2K on GL especially when there are several in the sale. Therefore, maybe I can buy one that runs and drives correctly at a good price, even if someone is passing one along to me that is excess to their needs. I really cannot pay retail for one. I also have room at home for only one truck so that is another thing but it might resolve itself in some way. 109 bodies - they can be had for cheap enough because people take them off to replace with beds or cranes or what have you. I think this project could be very interesting and also would be well documented. It would be the perfect use of time and materials on a road trip.
Pictures are of Vinny's 818+109 and of my M35+S280. Notice the height. It's hard to tell but the M35 with S280 is about the same height because there's the bed, then there's integral skids under the shelter as well as the insulated shelter flooring itself, adding maybe 8-9" to the height over an M109.
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The doors on the back of the M146 also have those windows and I believe they are the same size. Patrick, sounds like you have studied well. The spare wouldn't be as much of a problem with the lift gate. You could always pack a trailer too!
vinny-socom1
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Kenny do you have those doors?
Also my fuel mileage did not drop that much only about 1-1/2 miles per gallon I'm still get 9-10 mpg.
Yes my tires are 16.00x20s
You could make a front bumper mount for the spare tire? If you run 14.00 singles it would be less weigth and with that tire size you would still get the top speed.
I still have the u-bolts from mine so I can give you the specs if needed.
Vinny
Also my fuel mileage did not drop that much only about 1-1/2 miles per gallon I'm still get 9-10 mpg.
Yes my tires are 16.00x20s
You could make a front bumper mount for the spare tire? If you run 14.00 singles it would be less weigth and with that tire size you would still get the top speed.
I still have the u-bolts from mine so I can give you the specs if needed.
Vinny
vinny-socom1
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I have more pics of my truck in my photo album if you need them.
Vinny
Vinny
m.walker
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Dales truck is an M61 gasser Dave . The propane is there for the stove and furnace . It's a neet truck !
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Mark I just copied it from the pic on the club site where it's listed as a M55. That makes more sense, but knowing Dale he could have sawed off some of the XLWB frame. sorry
jayjetseck
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maybe a m813 would be better , i think the frame is longer so mount the box further back and mount the spare tire between cab and box. maybe enuff space for propane or generator?????????
Armada
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What a great project Patrick. I would love to make an 'RV' out of that same combo.
Here are pics of the M146 doors and M820 rear doors.
Also with an M818, you get 2 55 gal fuel tanks.
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vinny-socom1
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I think I will install a window from the side on the larger back door, it will be the cheapest way as I can see.
Vinny
Vinny
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I did some drawings to scale, from the transportability guidelines. The first thing I notice is that the drawings of the M818 with the M109 box do not look like the pictures shown in the thread. The pictures show that the box is elevated above the wheels nicely, where the drawing shows it is not.
My question is: To run the 52/53" tires on an M818 and put a M109 box on it, was it necessary to change anything, such as adding height to the suspension or adding timbers under the M109 body to raise it?
I ask because i see all the cool pictures here, and I realize the TM drawings might not be 'accurate' in every detail, only the major dimensions. And maybe they do not show the M109 box's underside rails. What do you guys think on this? Was there any other task than to set the body on the M818?
The drawings are all 5 pixels per inch. Everything is to scale in each drawing. The downloads have been resized by the system so their relative scales are not true.
My question is: To run the 52/53" tires on an M818 and put a M109 box on it, was it necessary to change anything, such as adding height to the suspension or adding timbers under the M109 body to raise it?
I ask because i see all the cool pictures here, and I realize the TM drawings might not be 'accurate' in every detail, only the major dimensions. And maybe they do not show the M109 box's underside rails. What do you guys think on this? Was there any other task than to set the body on the M818?
The drawings are all 5 pixels per inch. Everything is to scale in each drawing. The downloads have been resized by the system so their relative scales are not true.
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Hey Vinny - are the 16.00x20 the same as HEMMT tires - the ones shown on your truck pictures with the 109 body on the 818 chassis? i assume these are the same thing - - I have been calling them 52" or 53" tires.
I also thought the body bolted right on, can you explain about the U-bolts? I don't understand that part of it.
thanks,
Patrick
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I like your truck and trailer - -but I don't have room for that!!
vinny-socom1
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I did change the oak filler to an 2-1/2" thick one but thats because I wanted more clearance. The ubolt set up is the same style as normal box trucks- square ubolt around the frame up to the 109 box frame and a 2"x1/2" flat steel plate with holes for the bolts. Yes I run 16.00x20 tires just like the hemtts.
Vinny
Vinny
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M818 + m109
Hello Sir,
Loved seeing your creation of the tractor with shop box. I have been thinking about that for the last year trying to visualize it. And here you are done with it already. My respect.
May I ask you a few basic questions about the experiment;
1) How does it handle off road versus the stock M109, Is there enough weight to make the rear axles articulate throug deep ditches or do you loose traction
with one or two of the wheels ?
2) I suppose you can do a much better side angle with that much axel weight to prevent side tipping, it probably does not feel top heavy it all, correct?
3) What is your highway cruise speed and feul consumption?
4) How good is the insulation of the M109 box in hot weather ?
5) With the HC 250 engine It should not slow down much moving up a grade unlike the multifuel M109, is the difference drastic or minimal ?
I am planing to build a more power full expedition camper than my stock M35A2c.
Please mail me your thoughts before I start the purchases and all the effort.
If you happen to know a very clean M109 box, let me know.
Thanks a very large bunch!
Allard
Reno, Nevada
775 233 5766
Hello Sir,
Loved seeing your creation of the tractor with shop box. I have been thinking about that for the last year trying to visualize it. And here you are done with it already. My respect.
May I ask you a few basic questions about the experiment;
1) How does it handle off road versus the stock M109, Is there enough weight to make the rear axles articulate throug deep ditches or do you loose traction
with one or two of the wheels ?
2) I suppose you can do a much better side angle with that much axel weight to prevent side tipping, it probably does not feel top heavy it all, correct?
3) What is your highway cruise speed and feul consumption?
4) How good is the insulation of the M109 box in hot weather ?
5) With the HC 250 engine It should not slow down much moving up a grade unlike the multifuel M109, is the difference drastic or minimal ?
I am planing to build a more power full expedition camper than my stock M35A2c.
Please mail me your thoughts before I start the purchases and all the effort.
If you happen to know a very clean M109 box, let me know.
Thanks a very large bunch!
Allard
Reno, Nevada
775 233 5766
armytruck63
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Hey Opcom,
That last option, the M818 with the M109 box shoved back to make room for the generator and spare tire, looks inherently unstable to me. I would be afraid of fishtailing.
I wonder how the same idea with a longer M814 frame would look.
That last option, the M818 with the M109 box shoved back to make room for the generator and spare tire, looks inherently unstable to me. I would be afraid of fishtailing.
I wonder how the same idea with a longer M814 frame would look.