CTXKIGER
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Ok i tied the fuel shut off open on injector pump and it starts every time now. Smoke mostly clears up. Still wont stay running. Makes no sense to me
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Mep-002a
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You can also wire brush them....
steelandcanvas
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Are you holding the starter switch on until after you get good oil pressure? Sometimes you have to leave it in this position for a few seconds after oil pressure maxes out. I know it goes against everything we were ever taught, like the moment the motor starts to let go of the switch.
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Would not tie the fuel shutoff open. You could have a run away. Not pretty.
If solenoid will not stat up, something is not operating correctly. Check the grounds.
If solenoid will not stat up, something is not operating correctly. Check the grounds.
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Yea, he has had it running for 60 seconds.
CTXKIGER
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Something i just noticed is the throttle control does not effect the speed it runs at
CTXKIGER
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Ran for 1 min 58 sec. Seems to just run out of fuel.
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When running, what is the hertz reading if any? Is the throttle control hooked up (under front flywheel cover)?
CTXKIGER
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Throttle is hooked up. Hz is bout 15
CTXKIGER
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Actually hz is bout zero
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Normal operation is near 60 hz (1800 rpm) if the gauge is working. Does it sound like it's running slow? The throttle knob has a coarse and fine setting. Push and hold center button while running and pull out or push in to get close to 1800 rpm and if the gauge is working the needle will come close to 60 hz. Release knob and turn for fine tuning-clockwise or counter clockwise to bring closer.
CTXKIGER
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Here is where im at. The machine will start and run every time when the fuel shut off is tied open. I untied it and the cut off solenoid operation is spotty at best. The throttle control is all connected but does not control the speed of motor. The motor runs very high until appearing to start starving for fuel and dying. Hz are pretty much zero. Oil pressure 40 until slowing down and stalling. I checked, cleaned and tightened the ground running from generator to tràiler.
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How about the grounds from the battery negative to genny frame, engine, and control panel? Those are the ones that can give trouble.
CTXKIGER
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I will have to look for those tomorrow.
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If after you check all grounds, it still acts like a fuel issue, you should start troubleshooting the fuel system from start to finish. One way is to put a "T" with a gauge in the fuel line at the ip fuel inlet and see if you have 5 to 8 psi while running. If not, go back through each item and find out why there is a restriction. May be a weak fuel pump issue. Another trouble spot is excessive back pressure at the ip due to a restriction between it and the fuel tank. Maybe take the return fuel line off the tank and run into the fill hole to see your flow. You mention the solenoid being "spotty". What do you mean by that?
David
David
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cuad4u
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I have refurbished and sold around 34 002A and 003A generators. I am quite familiar with them. You have been given good advice so far.
There is a check valve between the 3 fuel filter canisters and the IP. It is known to stop up. Disconnect the hose coming FROM the check valve. Put the master switch in the RUN position and two of the 24V fuel pumps should run. Is there a good stream of fuel coming out of the check valve? I do not mean a dribble but a good stream. If not something is wrong between the fuel tank and the outlet of the check valve. That could be sludge in the bottom of the fuel tank (very common) restricting the suction line going from the tank to the fuel pump. It could any or all 3 fuel filters being clogged. It could be the strainer in the bottom of one or more of the 24V fuel pumps is clogged.
If you are getting a good stream of fuel out of the check valve, then your problem is some where between there and the injectors. What none of knows is if there are any parts missing in the throttle system. Since you said the throttle does not seem to change the engine speed, is there a plastic linkage connected to the throttle mechanism and the lever on the side of the IP?
When you tie the fuel shutoff solenoid up does the lever on the side of the IP move up and down freely? If not it should. This is a common problem with gelled fuel inside the IP.
If good so far I would loosen the 2 steel fuel lines coming OUT of the IP and turn the engine over with the starter. The engine won't start with the steel fuel lines loosened. . Is there a little (won't be a lot) fuel coming out of the IP where you loosened the 2 steel fuel lines at the IP? If so then I would loosen the same 2 steel fuel lines where they go into the 2 injectors. A little PB Blaster and a little time to let it work may help here. Also use a flare nut wrench so you won't round off the nuts. Turn the engine over with the starter and see if there is a little fuel coming out of the loosened fuel lines. If so the injectors may need service. There is a member on this site who cleans and calibrates them for a very reasonable price.
I do not want to over load you with ideas. Try what I suggested along with what others have suggested and report back. We will go from there.
There is a check valve between the 3 fuel filter canisters and the IP. It is known to stop up. Disconnect the hose coming FROM the check valve. Put the master switch in the RUN position and two of the 24V fuel pumps should run. Is there a good stream of fuel coming out of the check valve? I do not mean a dribble but a good stream. If not something is wrong between the fuel tank and the outlet of the check valve. That could be sludge in the bottom of the fuel tank (very common) restricting the suction line going from the tank to the fuel pump. It could any or all 3 fuel filters being clogged. It could be the strainer in the bottom of one or more of the 24V fuel pumps is clogged.
If you are getting a good stream of fuel out of the check valve, then your problem is some where between there and the injectors. What none of knows is if there are any parts missing in the throttle system. Since you said the throttle does not seem to change the engine speed, is there a plastic linkage connected to the throttle mechanism and the lever on the side of the IP?
When you tie the fuel shutoff solenoid up does the lever on the side of the IP move up and down freely? If not it should. This is a common problem with gelled fuel inside the IP.
If good so far I would loosen the 2 steel fuel lines coming OUT of the IP and turn the engine over with the starter. The engine won't start with the steel fuel lines loosened. . Is there a little (won't be a lot) fuel coming out of the IP where you loosened the 2 steel fuel lines at the IP? If so then I would loosen the same 2 steel fuel lines where they go into the 2 injectors. A little PB Blaster and a little time to let it work may help here. Also use a flare nut wrench so you won't round off the nuts. Turn the engine over with the starter and see if there is a little fuel coming out of the loosened fuel lines. If so the injectors may need service. There is a member on this site who cleans and calibrates them for a very reasonable price.
I do not want to over load you with ideas. Try what I suggested along with what others have suggested and report back. We will go from there.
CTXKIGER
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Thanks David I will certainly check those items you mentioned. By spotty I meant it is working properly some times. I found how to test it in the tm. A ground issue seems very plausible. A front moved in here so its cold and windy as ****. Thanks
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Something else to think about-does the IP look like it has been messed with? If it was taken apart at some time, and the throttle control lever not put in properly (ie: not engaged in the valve control), it would act like you are describing. Could go wide open and close intermittently with vibration and/or fuel flow giving no control to rpm and shutting off for no reason. Throttle lever would flop around freely.
David
David
CTXKIGER
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Cuad4u, I did check the check valve and fuel flows smoothly to the ip. I loosened the fittings at the injectors in order to free the lines of air and fuel seemed to flow well. There is not a plastic piece running from that rod/arm to the ip. The spring was originslly missing from the ip fuel shut off and it moves easily up and down other than the spring tension.
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Ok, The electric fuel pumps should be all mounted in one place, under the fuel filters. One is for Aux fuel transfer. The other two are mounted right next to the Aux pump. They are responsible for transfer of fuel from the tank to the injector pump. All three have a cable running from the individual pumps. Part of the cable is a round, or square (depending on who manufactured the pump) capacitor. From the capacitor should be about a 15-20 centimeter piece of cable and then a rubber covered quick disconnect, connector. Disconnect ALL three of the fuel pumps. Then place the S-1 start switch in the RUN position. TWO of the FEMALE plugs, (attached to the wire harness, not the pumps) should have 24 volts, (measured from Ground to plug). The other plug should be for the Aux pump. To check that properly, Place the S-1 start switch in the AUXILIARY position. The remaining female plug should have 24 volts. Make real sure the wires that connect the pumps to the wire harness are bolted to the frame. The cables have a terminal just for the function. There should also be a serrated washer between each terminal, to insure proper conductivity.
The clicking you hear could be the K-3 crank relay. Its easy to check. Open the control panel door and place your hand on the relay, (NOT THE TERMINALS) and turn the S-1 to the start position. Feel it click? That's good, but a better way to check it is with a multimeter. One side of the relay should have 24 volts BEFORE you turn the S-1 to the start position. The other side should have 24 volts AFTER you turn the S-1 to the start position. Measure from ground to the terminals of the Relay. Whats next? I would check the starter lockout switch, S-7. This switch is often out of adjustment. Normally, when the starting RPM is reached, the S-7 locks out the starter, to prevent the starter making horrible sounds as it engages the ring gear. When the S-7 is out of adjustment in the other direction, naturally, the starter will not engage. The -12 TM, page 4-31 explains how the switch works and how to adjust it. Also, more info would not hurt. Is the set inclosed in an ASK, Acoustic Suppression Kit? Makes things a little harder to find.
The clicking you hear could be the K-3 crank relay. Its easy to check. Open the control panel door and place your hand on the relay, (NOT THE TERMINALS) and turn the S-1 to the start position. Feel it click? That's good, but a better way to check it is with a multimeter. One side of the relay should have 24 volts BEFORE you turn the S-1 to the start position. The other side should have 24 volts AFTER you turn the S-1 to the start position. Measure from ground to the terminals of the Relay. Whats next? I would check the starter lockout switch, S-7. This switch is often out of adjustment. Normally, when the starting RPM is reached, the S-7 locks out the starter, to prevent the starter making horrible sounds as it engages the ring gear. When the S-7 is out of adjustment in the other direction, naturally, the starter will not engage. The -12 TM, page 4-31 explains how the switch works and how to adjust it. Also, more info would not hurt. Is the set inclosed in an ASK, Acoustic Suppression Kit? Makes things a little harder to find.